[ellacraig]

I don't get it? (Stupid blonde here)

I know this veres off what you are working on but do you think there's a definite answer to "do phytoestrogens REPLACE xenoestrogens or do phytos replace but ADD to the overall estrogen load?"

Correction, sexy blond .

Good question, I think the latter quite actually. Say (or use) this is an example, a women with a normal cycle (lol, what's that you say). She takes PM in the first half, now does her estradiol dramatically fall off after (say) day 14-16?........I think not. Calculations of blood E2 levels are still present a week if not longer. Add to this, the daily hidden barrage of xeno's (I'll bet that amount undetermined but still revelant).

Now, doe this women need to add more E in luteal?, I think not (again lol)..........and in the present study above it validates that breast tissue expression of E2 is still quite high when progesterone is added.

Ahh still present a week later... Ok yeh the higher E2 alongside high progesterone bit confused me too?
So it would seem it's a gamble then eh messing around with phytos even if it's just cycling if the effects can last well into luteal?.... Bugger shit and damn....

Bugger is right, =

Maybe NBE can be summoned up this way, women are likely to (when they do) have a slow but steady growth phase, while males seeking breast growth might have bursts of growth. Why exactly?, multiple reasons I suppose, but maybe it's narrowed down or relevant to how GH (growth hormone) is secreted in both sexes via the hypothalamus......female GH release is steady while males are in bursts.

But to your point, the extra E is not needed.

I was afraid you'd say that...

So being completely realistic, most of us "birds" are likely higher in E over P if NOT e Dom on account of environmental estrogens.

So where does that leave us ....

I suspect manual methods and back to diet yeh... I mean for me best growth I ever had was when I put in some weight coupled with massage...
Need to heal gut and get back there me thinks.
Not that I'm completely against my summer bod but curves would be nice!

[Lotus]

To be honest the answers are out there, either yet to be discovered in a lab or by our efforts here (meaning people here at BN sharing lab reports). And, as we learn how to analyze them, the analysis (albeit unscientific) helps us all in improving breast growth.

Think about it, scienctists have mapped how we metabolise medications, specificially, the P450 family of enzymes. So, we already identified a few of them here, (green tea, lemons, oranges, red pigmented fruits and veggies, others too). The point being, if we're able to correctly map, (say....white peony as an example), we now know it inhibits 5 ar in the sebaceous gland (DHT), and promote aromatase. But, how is metabolized in breast tissue, is it more pro ER-alpha or beta?, etc. meaning, how is FG, angus cactus (vitex) and others benefiting NBE.

Many other possibilities lol. But, it'll have to wait, going to sleep. I'll be dreaming of a booty like a Cadillac.

[Lotus]

Greetings fellow boobie lovers,

Curious & important question,...........anybody taking Metformin?

[The First Aria]

Greetings fellow boobie lovers,

Curious & important question,...........anybody taking Metformin?

Never heard of it...

[myboobs]

Greetings fellow boobie lovers,

Curious & important question,...........anybody taking Metformin?

What's that ?

[Lotus]

Metformin is a drug that is prescribed to treat type 2 diabetes. It works by decreasing the amount of sugar made by the liver and decreasing the amount of sugar absorbed into the body. As a result, metformin can help the body respond better to its own insulin and decrease blood sugar levels. http://diabetes.emedtv.commetformin/metformin.html

[Lotus]

Here's my point, sugar feeds DHT. When blood sugar is reduced, it reduces DHT. This study below shows that when using a diabetes drug to treat type II diabetes (metformin) it lowered free T (FT) and total T (TT). The point being, say you have type II diabetes and are pursuing NBE and are overweight (yes, it happens), well, the act of lowering blood sugars lowers androgens. A double whammy (of AA's) if you already have anti androgens in your plan. This does tell us that increased blood sugars reduce NBE, and alternately, lower androgens by reducing blood sugars.

Imo, reducing TT and FT is reducing DHT's capacity for production.


The effects of metformin and diet on plasma testosterone and leptin levels in obese men.
Ozata M1, Oktenli C, Bingol N, Ozdemir IC.
Author information
1Department of Endocrinology and Metabolism, Gulhane School of Medicine, Etlik-Ankara, Turkey. mozata@obs.gata.edu.tr
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
The aim of this study was to investigate the effects of combined hypocaloric diet and metformin on circulating testosterone and leptin levels in obese men with or without type 2 diabetes.
RESEARCH METHODS AND PROCEDURES:
Twenty obese men with type 2 diabetes (mean body mass index [BMI]: 35.5 +/- 1.1 kg/m(2)) and 20 nondiabetic obese men were enrolled in the study. We measured serum follicle-stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone (LH), total testosterone (TT), free testosterone (FT), sex-hormone-binding globulin (SHBG), dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate (DHEAS), and plasma leptin levels before and 3 months after metformin treatment. Both groups were placed on a hypocaloric diet and 850 mg of metformin taken orally twice daily for 3 months.
RESULTS:
Metformin and hypocaloric diets led to decreases in BMI and waist and hip circumferences in both groups. A significant decrease in TT levels in the diabetic group and FT levels in the control group was found, whereas follicle-stimulating hormone, LH, and DHEAS levels were not changed significantly. A significant increase in SHBG levels was observed in the control group but not in the patient group. Leptin levels also decreased after treatment in both groups. Decreased testosterone levels were not correlated to changes in waist and hip circumference, waist-to-hip ratio, BMI, and levels of fasting blood glucose, leptin, SHBG, or DHEAS in the diabetic group. However, a decrease in FT was correlated to changes in the levels of SHBG (r = -0.71, p = 0.001) and LH (r = 0.80, p = 0.001) but not to other parameters.
DISCUSSION:
We conclude that metformin treatment combined with a hypocaloric diet leads to reduced FT levels in obese nondiabetic men and to reduced TT levels in obese men with type 2 diabetes. Increased SHBG levels may account for the decrease in FT levels in the former group.
PMID: 11707532 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Here's more info that Eve shared earlier.
Sugar, Testosterone and DHT
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=25592

[pom19]

Well Lotus, then why all fat people-both males and females have large breasts? These people are loaded with sugar. That's why they are fat. Their food converts into sugar in their body and gives them too much calories which they do not burn and it turns into fat.

[charrr]

Pshew! So... much... interesting information! (Tongue hangs out) One of your personalities was threatening your retirement from the forum and now- this! Is it revenge?!

[The First Aria]

Well Lotus, then why all fat people-both males and females have large breasts? These people are loaded with sugar. That's why they are fat. Their food converts into sugar in their body and gives them too much calories which they do not burn and it turns into fat.

It's been my observation that bigger people have more problems with diabetes. And, of course more overall body fat will give you bigger breasts, as a general rule. But, not all big people have that disease but are simply more likely.