[bobie]

Thanks lotus, i thought maybe there was another reason but if not i will probably grab those capsules you linked to, do you think taking two capsules a day would have an effect or do you think you need to take the directed 4 a day?

[Lotus]

Thanks lotus, i thought maybe there was another reason but if not i will probably grab those capsules you linked to, do you think taking two capsules a day would have an effect or do you think you need to take the directed 4 a day?

I think you'll need an equivalent of 1-3 tablespoon, which is a lot in capsule intake. I'd start slow, 1-2 (per day) and see how you do, then adjust. At the very minimum you'll need to do more than 4 a day to reach the same extent of 3 tablespoons. (You'll still see benefits at the recommended amount)

[Lotus]

This is why palmitate (obtained in Palm) is important to hormones.


Annu Rev Biochem. 2004;73:559-87.
Palmitoylation of intracellular signaling proteins: regulation and function.
Smotrys JE1, Linder ME.

Abstract
Protein S-palmitoylation is the thioester linkage of long-chain fatty acids to cysteine residues in proteins. Addition of palmitate to proteins facilitates their membrane interactions and trafficking, and it modulates protein-protein interactions and enzyme activity. The reversibility of palmitoylation makes it an attractive mechanism for regulating protein activity, and this feature has generated intensive investigation of this modification. The regulation of palmitoylation occurs through the actions of protein acyltransferases and protein acylthioesterases. Identification of the protein acyltransferases Erf2/Erf4 and Akr1 in yeast has provided new insight into the palmitoylation reaction. These molecules work in concert with thioesterases, such as acyl-protein thioesterase 1, to regulate the palmitoylation status of numerous signaling molecules, ultimately influencing their function. This review discusses the function and regulation of protein palmitoylation, focusing on intracellular proteins that participate in cell signaling or protein trafficking.


Protein S-palmitoylation is the thioester linkage of long-chain fatty acids to cysteine residues in proteins. Addition of palmitate to proteins facilitates their membrane interactions and trafficking, and it modulates protein-protein interactions and enzyme activity.

[Dianna1395]

It shouldn't come as a surprise that hormone levels in older genetic males are comparable to menopausal hormones levels, and for that matter, I list the studies regarding obesity:

Androgen generation in adipose tissue in women with simple obesity – a site-specific role for 17b-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase type 5
http://joe.endocrinology-journals.org/co...1.full.pdf

Granted, aromatase is increased in belly fat in obese men, (especially in older overweight males). However, in older obese females, DHT is present in visceral fat, (something to consider). In other words, get rid of the belly, it could hamper breast growth.

Hi, Lotus.
I just saw this, and had a question...
The woman has been getting more and more aggressive. Part of it is stress, I'm sure, and we know there are thyroid issues from a doctor's visit on Monday.
Given there may be mitigating circumstances from these issues, do you have more information on the visceral fat --> DHT issue for women, especially post-menopause?
I'm seeing ths signs, and she's noticed, too - masculine hairline has formed (the "M" shape), more weight gained, Aggressive, AGGRESSIVE, MUCH MORE AGGRESSIVE, "HULK F*CKING SMASH! WANT NOW! ROAR!" sort of attitude....
I've gotten her to start taking some Kava Kava, we've tried St. Johns Wort in the past; SJW doesn't do diddly, Kava Kava might have SOME effect on the anxiety, but nothing on the aggression.
She's added Saw Palmetto and Pygeum; no result so far, but that takes time.
Taking Reishi Mushroom, too. (don't have doses, still minimal; need to restock the pharmacy.)

Given the existing issues we have, I'd like ANYTHING I can do to get the steel beam out of her.... you know.
But if this visceral fat is a major contributor, we have a root cause, I can work with that. Especially since she now has to go see a nutritionist and has GERD.... I can work with that. Get her to do what I've been telling her - Appeal to Authority is a logical fallacy, but apparently a woman won't listen unless someone paid $35 for a mail-in certificate... (No offense intended to those who actually know their stuff, but I think many of us here are beyond the sort of "bro science" you see in the gym - or the business world. I just need solutions, and PREFER people who are "in the trenches," over the "papered General" who can't tell the dangerous end of a gun...)

Third day of moving yesterday - we're not done yet. She's unemployed again, just in time for the move, and now she's nesting in the new place.
The "nesting" image is cute, always think in terms of birds making a nest together...
Third move since January, I'm beginning to think in terms of Shelob, Mother of Spiders...

[Lotus]

Dianna,

I'd mention cardiovascular risks (CHF, a biggie) and diabetes. good luck.



Testosterone and Visceral Fat in Midlife Women: The Study of Women’s Health Across the Nation (SWAN) Fat Patterning Study
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles...197585.pdf

Visceral fat (VF) increases with the menopause and is an independent predictor of the metabolic syndrome, diabetes, and cardiovascular disease (CVD) in women. Little is known about how hormonal changes during the menopausal transition are related to the increase in VF. We aimed to determine the relationship between bioavailable testosterone and VF in middle-aged women at various stages of the menopausal transition and whether this relationship is independent of age and other CVD risk factors. The Study of Women’s Health Across the Nation (SWAN) is a longitudinal, community-based study. This report uses baseline data from a population-based longitudinal ancillary study at the Chicago site to examine the cross-sectional relationship between testosterone and computed tomography (CT)–assessed VF in women at different stages of the menopausal transition. Included are 359 women (47.2% black), aged 42–60 years, who were randomly selected from a complete community census in which a 72% participation rate was achieved. In multivariate models, bioavailable testosterone was associated with VF independent of age, race, percent total body fat, and other cardiovascular risk factors. Bioavailable testosterone was a stronger predictor than estradiol and was interchangeable in its strength of association with sex hormone–binding globulin (SHBG). As bioavailable testosterone was associated with VF even after adjusting for insulin resistance, this suggests that it plays an important role in regional fat distribution. Our findings may have direct implications in explaining the effect of menopause-related testosterone predominance on VF accumulation and subsequent cardiovascular risk.

[Dianna1395]

Lotus,
You are frickin' awesome...

But you knew that already. ;-)
-Jean.

[Lotus]

Lotus,
You are frickin' awesome...

But you knew that already. ;-)
-Jean.

lol, I know my limitations

[Lotus]

I have a theory (or an idea) on surge T levels caused by the increase in LH (lutenizing hormone). Chemical castration of serum testosterone is @ ≤50 ng/dL, thats between 93% and 99% elimantion. FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) up-regulates aromatase in both men and women. For this thoery its specific to the guys for the moment (sorry ladies).

Using this criteria (illustration and E2 study) below as an example, I think we can theorize that LH supresses GnRH release, which therefore blocks out FSH singaling too. That's where I think a critical error occurs, in other words, the synthesis of aromatase is missed. Hopefully I didn't lose yah yet, any guesses what's the next move?, hint------it could be herbal or pharma, (one other clue) think surge (cascade).

17beta-estradiol.

Burnier AM, Martin PL, Yen SS, Brooks P.
Abstract
The sublingual absorption rates, the sustained effects, te biologic activity, and the metabolism of micronized 17beta-estradiol (E2) were measured in 10 postmenopausal women. E2 (0.5 mg) was administered in a single sublingual dose to five of the patients. An alternate-day schedule with the same dosage was used for the other five patients. In the single-dose study, a twenty-six fold increase in serum E2 and a ninefold increase in serum estrone (E1) concentrations were observed 1 hour after the sublingual deposition of E2 (0.5 mg). Serum concentrations of follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) and luteinizing hormone (LH) were significantly decreased within 6 hours. The rise in E2 was early and peaked in the first 2 hours. The rise in E1 was slower and progressive, reaching its maximum thirteenfold increase at 4 hours, and remained two and one half times the baseline of 29 pg/ml at 24 hours, whereas E2 returned to the baseline level of 24 pg/ml. When micronized E2 was given in a dosage of 0.5 mg sublingually every other night, increased circulating levels of estrogens continued to be elevated at a minimum two and one-half fold baseline level for the week of study.

Mean levels (CMax) after 1 hour in this study were 773.6 pg/ml. Estrace 1 mg, cut in half (0.5 mg).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6786097
[/quote]

[bobie]

The coconut oil capsules arrived on monday so i have been taking 4 of those a day, lotus do you think it a bad idea for me to ask my endo to prescribe a dopamine agonist to try and get my prolactin level down? its not so much the high prolactin that's bothering me its more that my estradiol is so low as a result, 8mg oral estradiol split am/pm is giving a blood level of just 73 pg/ml with blood taken 12/13 hours after a dose, i dont feel anything is really happening either...

Visceral fat & dht, im probably being stupid here or just havent read things properly/understood, does is store or create dht and would finasteride help? (which i already take), yes being overweight still i have a tummy

[Lotus]

The coconut oil capsules arrived on monday so i have been taking 4 of those a day, lotus do you think it a bad idea for me to ask my endo to prescribe a dopamine agonist to try and get my prolactin level down?

What was the prolactin result?, T (free t). It could be other things too. For instance, check your hemoglobin, SHBG, thyroid function. Although the coconut oil should help balance with those items.

its not so much the high prolactin that's bothering me its more that my estradiol is so low as a result, 8mg oral estradiol split am/pm is giving a blood level of just 73 pg/ml with blood taken 12/13 hours after a dose, i dont feel anything is really happening either...

Sublingual delivers a higher free estradiol, ask your endo if this is acceptable, he may want to adjust. 200-300 pg/ml is typical female range as you know. Again, T at chemical castration levels of 50 ng/dl surely makes things easier.

Visceral fat & dht, im probably being stupid here or just havent read things properly/understood, does is store or create dht and would finasteride help? (which i already take), yes being overweight still i have a tummy

Here's the thing about visceral fat/DHT. E2 shovels trunk weight like its nobodies business. Gyno does pretty much the same thing, except it produces aromatase (again, like nobodies business), and subcutaneous fat produces aromatase.

What happens with older men who have gyno?, their estrogen levels are very similar to menopausal women if not more. DHT in (stomach) visceral fat lowers E2 levels, subcutaneous fat promotes aromatase. Getting rid of visceral fat is "no so easy" lol, but necessary to say the least.

Finasteride is said to help reduce visceral fat, at what rate I have no idea. But, I believe green tea can also help too (2-3 cups a day). Forskolin is also said to help with visceral fat, finding a legimate brand (??), I dunno, the side effects are something else to be concerned about.

Coconut oil also reduces visceral fat. of course fitness exercises will always help.