[Cagedmuscle213]

No shit it didn't do much... Being on higher than normal T likely makes the balance so T dominant that weak poor phytoestrogen doesn't really do anything. Also, what about DHT, that's boob killer number one and usually gym Ahnulds absolutely love it as its kinda beneficial to keep going. Its very effectively halting any feminising changes from happening.

Can't really have both at the same time, the balance is one way or another and E dominance is a certain way of getting rid of muscles and getting fem changes going. I would love to see someone soaked in T being able of growing boobs on NBE stuff, but I don't think its going to happen any time soon.

Wow. Thanks for the informative comment. I've seen multiple people in this forum use nbe and test and be successful. 

Like I said only reason I stopped.was due to stomach issues that developed from using pm capsules.

I'm glad you said what you said. Now you feel all big inside, when really you're just a internet bully, key board warrior. Glad you got to feel like you have a sense of accomplishment by making rude comments towards others. 

So much for this place being a safe place to seek information and share ones experiences. 

It's all good. Glad you made yourself feel better at my expense.

[Cagedmuscle213]

Not that it's anyone's business. I don't care about my functionality down stairs. 

I love fitness and having my muscle. If I could have been born a woman and have muscle I would have have. If I was a woman I'd prob use low dose androgens to build muscle. 

As for my functionality and genitals I don't care for them. I have them and theyre apart of me for now. Only reason I keep them is bc im in a relationship and it would be a hard conversation to have. If I was not in a relationship, I'd prob have them removed at this point and still take testosterone to maintain my muscle mass, and finally be rid of my dismorphia of having ugly male genitals. 

So for all the people who keep saying you can't have it both ways. I don't care to have my penis or it's function. In fact I'd love for it to shrink along with my testicles, at least then I'd be able to comfortably wear the clothes I have always wanted to. 

If there are men on here that have grown breast while using test, and if there are biological women in the world that use the mildest forms of cycling on and off androgenic steroids to stay feminine and make.more.muscle than the normal female, then I can certainly can try for something in-between. 

Again if you don't have any real advice or suggestions, and all you want to do is point out the obvious in a bullying manner, you can just not say anything at all. I know what you're going to say anyways. So do us all favor and get over yourself. 

It's sad that people who are no one in the world have to put others down online so they can finally feel like there more than what they are, so they can finally feel justified and have some sense of accomplishment by putting others down from behind a key board. And then they will be the first ones to say toxic masculinity is the problem and try to become the victim once they're followers see them for what they really are. 

I really thought this could be a place for me to be myself and seek advice and share an experience but no. Sorry I don't fit into your pre designated mold of what someone who is struggling with their gender identity should look like. Thanks for making me feel welcomed... 

I'm done here. If anyone has any information on how to delete or deactivate their account on here please message me privately.

[ChuckM]

No shit it didn't do much... Being on higher than normal T likely makes the balance so T dominant that weak poor phytoestrogen doesn't really do anything. Also, what about DHT, that's boob killer number one and usually gym Ahnulds absolutely love it as its kinda beneficial to keep going. Its very effectively halting any feminising changes from happening.

Can't really have both at the same time, the balance is one way or another and E dominance is a certain way of getting rid of muscles and getting fem changes going. I would love to see someone soaked in T being able of growing boobs on NBE stuff, but I don't think its going to happen any time soon.

Hi Lara,

I've mentioned this before, but about 8 years ago I had surgery for a pituitary tumor.  The tumor really impacted my testosterone production and before the surgery I had started to develop some minor gynecomastia.  Just prior to the surgery I started on T-replacement and my breasts continued to slowly develop after the surgery.  Gynecomastia is a known potential side effect of T-replacement therapy, and fortunately, or unfortunately, depending on one's point of view, it's a side effect I developed.  About three year ago I decided that I really wanted to increase my breast growth, so I started a NBE program after finding this site.  I had some very nice results, and about a year ago I added pumping to my regimen.  The picture below is from last month, and I think is shows that it's possible for someone taking a lot of testosterone to grow breasts through an NBE program.  I've only had breast development, no other feminization or changes in fat distribution, and have remained fully functional.      

My growth did slow somewhat after I switched from PM to FG and RC, but the PM triggered a DVT, and that's something i never want to go through again.  I know I'll never develop breasts as large and beautiful as yours, but I'm continuing to grow and I'd love get as large as I possibly can.  

Best regards,
ChuckM

[DruLactin]

With all due respect, cagedmuscle, thats not really keyboard war, thats just the long and short of it. Free T and DHT down-regulate estrogen receptors in the breast, so any amount able to really boost those muscle gains is going to significantly neuter your boob gains. not saying you have to pick a lane, just saying that each goal individually becomes infinitely easier if you do.

[Heaven's Night]

Ok so my post was taken the worst way possible.

The point was that T dominance and high DHT are not going to be countered by a weak phytoestrogen, that's very likely not enough to change the balance enough. What I meant which was said between the lines, that to counter high T and DHT levels, actual conventional HRT might be needed... Either that or the hormone balance must be already close enough so that estrogens or estrogen mimics can do their thing. Otherwise there wont be much if any changes.

But what do I know, I just slap stuff on the wall and see what sticks. Someone more knowledgeable should chime in.

Also, I'm not a bully, I don't do internet drama, its naive and a waste of time. You're assuming things about me which aren't true. I know very well how diverse bunch people here are, I'm not blind and I'm not stupid either. Don't push your own ideas about me like that, I'm not gonna cry toxic masculinity or some victim complex crap either, where did you get those ideas from? Rhetoric question of course. Anyway, I'm done with this.

[Blue]

Janae Marie Kroc

[CM213]

Hello everyone. I am back. 

First and foremost I am sorry. @hellodidi I did take you.post the worst possible way, and at the time I felt like I was being bullied or being made an example of. I was in a bad mental state. I am sorry for that and if your relationships on here with other members have been damaged I apologize. My actions have no excuse. I hope we can all move forward with a clean slate. And if not then again all I can do is offer my apologies. I am truly sorry.

[CM213]

An update: 

 alot has been going on. Marriage has been shaky for some time. Recently my wife found out that her step dad has cancer and not sure about the prognosis or how much time he has. Next in mid March we had a house fire and we lost everything. Now trying to rebuild on top of all this my wife felt something was off about me. So she decided to go through my phone. What she found was something she did not expect or was even on the radar. I have been researching transitioning topics, reaching out the trans women for their advice and experiences. So with that even though I am not sure quite sure what I identify as I am out..and in a way I did not want to come out. I honestly don't think my marriage will survive this even if I decide not to explore this side of myself and not transition.

So again I am sorry for my actions in the past. I am not on any NBE supplements, and I have cycled off all forms of male steroids that I have been using for many years for fitness and bodybuilding purposes. I felt that I could try to achieve the physique of a female bodybuilder or athlete. I am not sure if the combo of female and male hormones is a factor that made my mental state even worse than it was or not, anyways again I am sorry for my actions in the past. 

Whatever is going on with me is not going away. I have had these thoughts and feelings since childhood. Usually I am able.to repress them. For what ever reason they are not going away like in the past. I am so consumed with transitioning, thoughts of it, what I identify as, what that means and all the consequences, ramifications it has on myself and everyone else in my life that has to now go on this journey with me when they had no thoughts or concerns that this journey would ever be one they have to take. 

Like I said I am off.everything. no steroids. No NBE. just what I normally use for day to day workouts. Just Proteins, pre workouts, amino acids etc. I am trying to let my system and hormones balance back out and my receptors get clean and again. 

I have lost 10 lbs, I am currently at 195 in the mornings. I have lost a few inches everywhere. Strength has gone down some as well but still doing everything normal for the most part.

[CM213]

Also I forgot to mention I have had two therapy sessions with a gender identity therapist.

[Heaven's Night]

Hello everyone. I am back. 

First and foremost I am sorry. @hellodidi I did take you.post the worst possible way, and at the time I felt like I was being bullied or being made an example of. I was in a bad mental state. I am sorry for that and if your relationships on here with other members have been damaged I apologize. My actions have no excuse. I hope we can all move forward with a clean slate. And if not then again all I can do is offer my apologies. I am truly sorry.

Its ok, apology accepted.

I know I'm some times blunt with things, often straight to the point without thinking how it may come across. Some times its a miss. Its all fine, the road you're on is a rocky one no matter what.

I'm sorry about the whole mess you're going through. Lot of marriages can't survive this and the house fire, omg that's just insanely bad luck... I hope things will get better soon, or at least you get a clear direction where you're heading at. I think time off of NBE and other stuff is a good move right now. A decent reset before next step. If you decide to go on HRT and begin medical transition, all the amazing hormone magic is waiting here. ^_^ And there will be more, its not like its all said and done yet.

I wish you luck dealing with life, things have amazing way to get sorted out.