[Lotus]

Hi Lotus!
Maybe you could sort this out.

So I've been researching a bit on what could work for increasing progesterone (I know you stated Smoky Mountains is a good brand, I've purchased it already) and I found pregnenolone. What are your thoughts about this hormone?

Would be okay to use it if we cannot have access to a good progesterone source, such as micronised progesterone?

Hi Sweets, if sourcing progesterone is a problem I suggest RC (red clover). Aside from the previous post on RC (inside this thread) consider the following information. I believe bioidentical hormones react better for breast growth than most NBE products. If can you post the preservatives you mentioned, I'd be interested in seeing the information.

I experimented adding red clover with micronized progesterone. This is a mix of HRT with an herbal product. I did a similar experiment with E2 gel with red clover and my areolas blew up.

pregnenolone as a “precursor hormone” to all hormones. I took pregnenolone in capsule form and got an initial huge hit on energy and cognitive function for a few days, after which that huge hit went away. You can try pregnenolone to help balance your hormones and see if it helps you… then do lab work to see the results.
https://geriatricacademy.com/health-bene...gnenolone/

Red clover induces progesterone, (activates ER-a & b receptors)

Biological characterization of non-steroidal progestins from botanicals used for women’s health

Progesterone plays a central role in women’s reproductive health. Synthetic progestins, such as medroxyprogesterone acetate (MPA) are often used in hormone replacement therapy (HRT), oral contraceptives, and for the treatment of endometriosis and infertility. Although MPA is clinically effective, it also promiscuously binds to androgen and glucocorticoid receptors (AR/GR) leading to many undesirable side effects including cardiovascular diseases and breast cancers. Therefore, identifying alternative progestins is clinically significant. The purpose of this study was to biologically characterize non-steroidal progestins from botanicals by investigating their interaction and activation of progesterone receptor (PR). Eight botanicals commonly used to alleviate menopausal symptoms were investigated to determine if they contain progestins using a progesterone responsive element (PRE) luciferase reporter assay and a PR polarization competitive binding assay. Red clover extract stimulated PRE-luciferase and bound to PR. A library of purified compounds previously isolated from red clover was screened using the luciferase reporter assay. Kaempferol identified in red clover and a structurally similar flavonoid, apigenin, bound to PR and induced progestogenic activity and P4 regulated genes in breast epithelial cells and human endometrial stromal cells (HESC). Kaempferol and apigenin demonstrated higher potency in the HESC compared to breast epithelial cells. Furthermore, phytoprogestins were able to activate P4 signaling in breast epithelial cells without downregulating PR expression. This data suggest that botanical extracts used for women’s health may contain compounds capable of activating progesterone receptor signaling.


Only red clover (20 μg/ml) significantly activated PRE-luciferase induction.

Red clover and a structurally similar flavonoid, apigenin, bound to PR and induced progestogenic activity and P4 regulated genes in breast epithelial cells and human endometrial stromal cells.

Red clover, genistein (others too) inhibit type 2 (5 ar).

Red clover induces progesterone, (activates ER-a receptors too)

Biological characterization of non-steroidal progestins from botanicals used for women’s health

Progesterone plays a central role in women’s reproductive health. Synthetic progestins, such as medroxyprogesterone acetate (MPA) are often used in hormone replacement therapy (HRT), oral contraceptives, and for the treatment of endometriosis and infertility. Although MPA is clinically effective, it also promiscuously binds to androgen and glucocorticoid receptors (AR/GR) leading to many undesirable side effects including cardiovascular diseases and breast cancers. Therefore, identifying alternative progestins is clinically significant. The purpose of this study was to biologically characterize non-steroidal progestins from botanicals by investigating their interaction and activation of progesterone receptor (PR). Eight botanicals commonly used to alleviate menopausal symptoms were investigated to determine if they contain progestins using a progesterone responsive element (PRE) luciferase reporter assay and a PR polarization competitive binding assay. Red clover extract stimulated PRE-luciferase and bound to PR. A library of purified compounds previously isolated from red clover was screened using the luciferase reporter assay. Kaempferol identified in red clover and a structurally similar flavonoid, apigenin, bound to PR and induced progestogenic activity and P4 regulated genes in breast epithelial cells and human endometrial stromal cells (HESC). Kaempferol and apigenin demonstrated higher  potency in the HESC compared to breast epithelial cells. Furthermore, phytoprogestins were able to activate P4 signaling in breast epithelial cells without downregulating PR expression. These data suggest that botanical extracts used for women’s health may contain compounds capable of activating progesterone receptor signaling.

Only red clover (20 μg/ml) significantly activated PRE-luciferase induction

[Heaven's Night]

Lara, out of curiosity, do you take breaks??

Hi SweetO, its been a while.

I do take breaks, mostly to let skin recover as daily dermarolling needs little breaks every now and then. I typically do two 1-3 day breaks per month. Right now I've kept going for a while without as I'm growing so well right now, shooting on all barrels with it as I feel that the latest additions of RC extract and olive oil shot are working wonders.

I started BO this week and want to try RC extract and Coconut Oil.  How many drops are you using.  Love your posts and your growth!
               hugs,  Brandi

You mean RC extract? I've been using forty drops in total, so twenty per breast per day, Its quite a lot, easily covers the entire breast and its definitely starting to kick in.

[SweetO]

Hey Lotus, thanks !

The most common ones I've seen in the marketplace (in Spain) have these preservatives: methylparaben, phenoxylethanol, sodium benzoate and benzyl alcohol.

I know we should not not be afraid of preservatives but I wonder if there are better brands out there. For now I've got smoky mountains progesterone on my way and I bet I will give a try to red clover. It's red clover extract right???

Plus, I plan to purchase Biolabs pro, I recall you said it's a good brand, I am running out of estrogen so let's give it a try I guess!

Also, another doubt my dumb brain just brought up: could I use DHEA throughout all the cycle? Maybe taking a break during the period week but using it even in ovulation...? or is it a bad idea?

[Lotus]

Hi Sweets, it's a good idea to steer clear of fillers, parabens, or other ingredients that endanger humans. I find it difficult to source a progesterone cream that's clean from unwanted added ingredients. I had to look again at Smoky Mountain PC because it's been a while looking at the ingredients. I'm glad I did, I've got a problem with ‘Sodium hydroxymethylglycinate (SHMG):
“associated with allergic contact dermatitis, possibly due to the agents themselves, the formaldehyde they release, or both”.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20233550/

Potassium sorbate, which acts to prevent mold and microbes and to increase shelf life.
Tocopheryl Acetate- is a form of vitamin E. Vitamin E has its uses, but not intermixed with Progesterone Creams or any other products containing Vitamin E used for breast growth. In the studies I've followed vitamin E is anti-estrogenic. 

* Like i said, it ain't easy finding clean ingredients when sourcing progesterone creams. 

* I'm having fun using Red Clover with E2 gel, or Red Clover with micronized P4 (Prometrium) capsules. Both uses produce amazing results.

* For instance RC with E2 blows my Areolas up. RC with P4 produces strong side branching… in my experience. If you're experiencing disproportionate side branching (meaning more growth on the outsides of breasts vs inner breasts) focus on one area at a time. From my experience, red clover applied to breasts does interesting and beneficial things. 

* I use a Red Clover extract, that's alcohol free, about 3 drops per breast. As per the RC/E2 is using about 2 drops per breast. For E2 I use just enough gel to cover my areolas. Which means amounts will differ for everyone. 

* For Ciswomen who have menstrual cycles try using RC/E2 in their follicular cycle, followed by RC with progesterone cream in the luteal cycle. I see taking olive oil orally (3 tablespoons) when in luteal. The olive oil helps with breast growth synthesis. 

* Additionally, for the non-menstrual types the olive oil helps with the synthesis of breast-buds. 

* I don't see a problem using Bio-labs E1/E2 cream. Or using an OTC progesterone cream. Please source a clean PC (progesterone cream) as mentioned above.

[Bindian]

Lotus,
So don't use Smoky Mountain PC?  That's what I just bought.
hugs,  Brandi

[Lotus]

Lotus,
So don't use Smoky Mountain PC?  That's what I just bought.
hugs,  Brandi

It's usable. I don't remember those ingredients when I used smoky mountain. I'll have to find a picture of the ingredients list I have on file. I'll be looking into finding an alternative that offers clean ingredients. I'll post what I think is a clean OTC progesterone cream later today... it's too late-or too early depending what time zone you're in for me. Take care 

[Heaven's Night]

I checked my prog and estriol creams. Prog only has vitamin E but not the other two and the estriol thing has all of them. Not good. I searched iHerb for these and found that every single one contains at least one, but most usual was vitamin E without the others, or potassium sorbate without others. It seems like the best bet is to go with something that only has one of three as there's nothing without them. For me iHerb happens to be the cheapest, easiest source for the creams.

[Bindian]

Thanks Lotus.  I'm USA central time zone.  But 28 years of graveyards has me up.
 hugs,  Brandi

[wee2er]

Lotus you are an absolute gem 
Really interesting to know what RC does depending on what its mixed with, which means we can target our goals more specifically.

As my main target is now lower body feminisation I've been avoiding progesterone because of potential boob growth, but always had areolas envy!

I've just started to experiment with the RC with E gel, so I apply a smear of MCT oil on each areola, let it soak in for a minute or so, then apply a smear of E gel, followed by 3 drops of RC. Then to keep it all contained I put my nipple suckers on for a few hours.

Will see how it goes  

Many thanks xx

[Heaven's Night]

Omg what! Lotus, did you just say earlier that you've been using only few drops of RC extract and that alone worked? No wonder I'm growing like crazy with areolas expanding so much as I've been mixing forty drops with other stuff each day.

I'm a bit pissed off about the ingredients in Prog and Estriol creams. Seems like there's no way to source one without any unwanted ingredients. But I can find quite a few with just vitamin E or potassium sorbate in them without having the whole set. So I guess I'll aim for the least ingredients and only one of the nasty ones.