[AnnieBL]

The link is now:

http://www.optimalhealthcave.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=829

but it says that you have to be registered to access it.

[AbiDrew85]

Just a quick note. The literature that came with my Ainterol PM cream said to avoid the nipples as it could possibly cause "unwanted, involuntary, possibly embarassing erection of the nipples.(paraphrased). I will only say that they are indeed correct in issueing that little warning.

Ah. Well, this does happen to me... But it's very very short term. Doesn't even last like 5 or 10 minutes for me and well. All sorts of things cause my girls to go erect at all kinds of "possibly embarrassing" moments. Usually it's invisible, with the only real indication anythings going on being my squirming.

Since I'm bi... yeah... LOTS of opportunities for me to get turned on when I don't REALLY want to be.

[chrishoney]

Obviously, a topically-applied cream will get into the bloodstream. Progesterone cream, testosterone cream, estrogen cream, nitroglycerine patches, nicotine patches, etc. all prove this. The problem, as I understand it, is that PM needs to pass through the liver to become what it is we want it to become so it does what we want it to do. Apparently, this does not happen when applied to the skin. That said, other than greed, there must be some reason Ainterol recommends using the cream in addition to pills or powder to improve results.

Just to clarify some of the underlying physiology:

EVERYTHING that enters the bloodstream, no matter how it gets there, passes through the liver. Period. No exceptions. That's how the circulatory system works.

Topically applied PM is no different than any other substance/drug applied to the skin. The hope of those applying PM cream directly to the breasts is that it will stay in the region of the breasts and have a more direct effect that way. I find this laughable (but, to each his own) since ANYTHING absorbed by the skin must first pass through the extensive subcutaneous capillary beds, ie the part of the circulatory system specifically designed to exchange nutrients, waste products, oxygen, carbon dioxide, etc with the surrounding tissue.

Ainterol and others sell PM cream to meet customer demand, since "hope springs eternal in the human breast."

[MonikaT]

Obviously, a topically-applied cream will get into the bloodstream. Progesterone cream, testosterone cream, estrogen cream, nitroglycerine patches, nicotine patches, etc. all prove this. The problem, as I understand it, is that PM needs to pass through the liver to become what it is we want it to become so it does what we want it to do. Apparently, this does not happen when applied to the skin. That said, other than greed, there must be some reason Ainterol recommends using the cream in addition to pills or powder to improve results.

Just to clarify some of the underlying physiology:

EVERYTHING that enters the bloodstream, no matter how it gets there, passes through the liver. Period. No exceptions. That's how the circulatory system works.

Topically applied PM is no different than any other substance/drug applied to the skin. The hope of those applying PM cream directly to the breasts is that it will stay in the region of the breasts and have a more direct effect that way. I find this laughable (but, to each his own) since ANYTHING absorbed by the skin must first pass through the extensive subcutaneous capillary beds, ie the part of the circulatory system specifically designed to exchange nutrients, waste products, oxygen, carbon dioxide, etc with the surrounding tissue.

Ainterol and others sell PM cream to meet customer demand, since "hope springs eternal in the human breast."

I wasn't clear enough. I remember reading somewhere in this forum that for PM to do its job, it has to make the double pass through the liver which only happens when going through the digestive tract, something that is undesirable when taking pharmaceutical hormones. And it is the double pass that does not occur when PM is topically applied. Obviously, I have no clue if the claim is correct that the double pass through the liver is required for PM to work. I apologize for any confusion I caused by my original response.

[AbiDrew85]

I wasn't clear enough. I remember reading somewhere in this forum that for PM to do its job, it has to make the double pass through the liver which only happens when going through the digestive tract, something that is undesirable when taking pharmaceutical hormones. And it is the double pass that does not occur when PM is topically applied. Obviously, I have no clue if the claim is correct that the double pass through the liver is required for PM to work. I apologize for any confusion I caused by my original response.

Well. It does work topically. At least if it's straight up pure liquid extract you're using and applying it directly to a nipple and the surrounding areola.

I mentioned earlier in this thread that I'd started doing just that to my right breast in hopes of it catching up, and it's working.

I know that nothing applied topically stays where you apply it, that's the whole point of PC and estriol topicals and estrogels and so on. However, if you use just a very very small amount, say, only 1 drop, and apply it directly to the area that you MOST want the effects... it does seem to do exactly what I was wanting it to.

My right breast is still a little behind, but it probably always will be... The good thing is it's not AS far behind.

[Wishful]

One reason I use the Natureday cream on my breasts is that it has other ingredients in it that soften the skin and make my breasts feel real nice. And I have the hope that the cream may have some effect on the size also. Yes, I know better but hope spring eternal.

[spanky (aka Lola)]

I have started to develop intense pain in my lower back, mostly when I stand up. I do not know if it is related to PM but seems to have coincided with increasing my dosage. I am tempted to go back to lower levels but am hanging in there for now.

[Robbin]

S panky,

Good with feeling better how much are you taking if you don't mind me asking.
I'm taking 3 pm I just feel tired and a little drugged out. No pain just very tired.

[flamesabers]

I have started to develop intense pain in my lower back, mostly when I stand up. I do not know if it is related to PM but seems to have coincided with increasing my dosage. I am tempted to go back to lower levels but am hanging in there for now.

I think Byrony, myself and others have experienced kidney/lower back pain. The culprit may be estrogen dominance. Are you using progesterone cream? If not, it may be worth it to give it a try.

You may also want to consider seeing a doctor for this just to make sure there isn't a serious underlying health condition causing this pain.

[Samantha Rogers]

I also remember experiencing this lower back problem occasionally as I was moving to higher levels of PM but it was always temporary. It is always a good idea to drink a lot of water.