[Marina Kits]

Being one who struggles with my anatomy / wrong sex and wanting (only rarely) to overcome that problem, I often find myself pondering the question, "what's so great about masculinity that I should WANT to be a man?" We here in the gender identity nook of BN and in our culture, by my estimation, esteem femininity. Beauty, nurturing, gentleness, compassionate, loving, emotional, caring etc, etc, etc. But what is it about masculinity that we, individually or as a culture hold in high regard? If I was proud to be a man, what is it exactly, that I could be proud of? Strength probably tops my list but I quickly run out of ideas and don't want to clog your mind with what I'm thinking. So, if you would please, fire away with your list of masculine qualities... And might I suggest you hit reply and make your own list before you read what others list off??? I'm HOPING for a really big and diverse list.

[Samantha Rogers]

Hmmm...still thinking...al I can come up with is that you can pee standing up...tee hee
And, no, Kari, I am not trying to be silly...that is all I can think of.
Of course, this takes things on an objective, "in a perfect world" way
In the real world men still have quite a few advantages just in moving through the world, especially in business.

[SarahSchilling]

I suppose a lack of empathy could be a positive in the business world.

That's all I got, unless body odor could be a positive? Maybe it would if one lived among animals.....or other men?

Either way. I don't think I ever had enough of these traits to list many lol

[GoneGirl]

Oh come on now. Just because we all have strong female identities and are attracted to females sexually, doesn't mean that men are worthless. I don't hate the male side of my gender. Men and women each have their place in the world, and I think the two sexes have been complementary and essential in the survival of the species over the eons. As the French say: "Viva la difference!"

A man's greater strength may not be as important today with the labor saving technologies we have, but my wife still calls on me to do the heavy lifting...although I don't know how long that will last ...LOL!

Woman on average are more intelligent than men, but that intelligence is distributed normally with a smaller variance than men's. So you see more really stupid men, but also a lot of really brilliant ones. Testosterone is nature's performance enhancing drug. It enhances a man's physical, mental, and motivational (aggressive) qualities.

As far as lack of empathy, nurturing instinct, etc., I believe a child needs both the unconditional love of a mother as well as the firm hand of a father to grow up well-balanced. Many of the problems we see in our society today result from fatherless homes.

We don't have to put down men to justify our not being as manly as other men.

(An after thought)
Kari Leigh, was this question posed tongue in cheek? If so, sorry for the rant.

Just my 2 cents.

Clara

[SarahSchilling]

Oh come on now. Just because we all have strong female identities and are attracted to females sexually, doesn't mean that men are worthless. I don't hate the male side of my gender. Men and women each have their place in the world, and I think the two sexes have been complementary and essential in the survival of the species over the eons. As the French say: "Viva la difference!"

A man's greater strength may not be as important today with the labor saving technologies we have, but my wife still calls on me to do the heavy lifting...although I don't know how long that will last ...LOL!

Woman on average are more intelligent than men, but that intelligence is distributed normally with a smaller variance than men's. So you see more really stupid men, but also a lot of really brilliant ones. Testosterone is nature's performance enhancing drug. It enhances a man's physical, mental, and motivational (aggressive) qualities.

As far as lack of empathy, nurturing instinct, etc., I believe a child needs both the unconditional love of a mother as well as the firm hand of a father to grow up well-balanced. Many of the problems we see in our society today result from fatherless homes.

We don't have to put down men to justify our not being as manly as other men.

(An after thought)
Kari Leigh, was this question posed tongue in cheek? If so, sorry for the rant.

Just my 2 cents.

Clara

All that, and I don't see a specific positive trait aside from strength

And I grew up just fine without a coherent father for the most part....well...fine enough lol.

I totally hate guys in general, and especially the concept of masculinity....and its not because I think I have to in order to justify my own existence. My experiences with men thus far in life have led me to this view. So yeah, I'm biased. To each their own as always, though.

[MissC]

You ask this question as if you had a choice... lol.

I think if I were a woman, and had my brain... I'd be a helluva tomboy. I really do enjoy doing "guy" things like carpentry, welding, messing with machinery, hunting, fishing, and the like. I get called "ma'am" at Home Depot, where I spend many hours of my life.

Not that you have to be male to do any of those things... it's just how it shakes out, I suppose. Guys do that stuff and teach it to their male children, which is how I learned it. So in my mind, masculinity is competence -- being able to do anything that needs done and handle any disaster that comes your way. I'll even go so far as to include things like sewing and cooking in that 'competence' category.

We could also go with the theory that the masculine worldview runs on science, logic, facts, and measurements; while the feminine worldview runs on craz-- I mean, emotion and helpfulness. There's nothing wrong with any of it, and no one is entirely one or the other.

I know men and women of both masculine and feminine persuasions. Everyone and everything has its place, and frankly, I don't think bashing on masculinity serves the slightest purpose.

[Samantha Rogers]

I don't mean to put down men, Clara.
But I do think women are quite capable, when the playing field is made totally level in some perfect world where sexism is no longer present, of doing virtually everything men do, and sometimes better. The only area where I see the male holding an intrinsic (not a social) advantage is brute physical strength.
And I believe the evolution of society from one based in hard physical labor to one based more and more on intellectual and creative activities (as more and more labor intensive occupations are automated), favors a progression toward a break down of gender stereotypes as the advantage of brute strength becomes no advantage at all. Frankly, I envision a future somewhere in distant forward time, where gender issues such as we face have been worn down to the point where society becomes gender fluid.

[Marina Kits]

We don't have to put down men to justify our not being as manly as other men.

(An after thought)
Kari Leigh, was this question posed tongue in cheek? If so, sorry for the rant.

Just my 2 cents.

Clara / MissC, you misunderstood my question and / or, I didn't explain it clearly. I'm not being sarcastic and I'm certainly not trying to put down men. Oh contraire. I KNOW men have attributes but my mind is so warped by my GID, I have a hard time seeing them. Everything that could be a positive looks bad to me. Strength = oppression, protective = prone to warring, courageous = blind stupidity, leadership = dictatorship ...not always or in every situation but more often than not. Oh, and then there's that icky compulsion to procreate! It just seems to me that women have a big basket of admirable qualities while men have a cup full. I guess that's one reason the other side looks so appealing. Maybe it's the fluid dynamic evolving that makes it harder to see distinctions that might be disappearing before our eyes. I was hoping to be inspired to embrace masculinity with a list of things that I could passionately aspire to. So far, I've got, "pee while standing"

[GoneGirl]

Yeah, I think you might have misunderstood Clara. I'm not being sarcastic and I'm certainly not trying to put down men. Oh contraire. I think men DO have attributes but my mind is so warped by my GID, I have a hard time seeing them. Everything that could be a positive looks bad to me. Strength = oppression, protective = prone to warring, courageous = blind stupidity, leadership = dictatorship ...not always or in every situation but more often than not. It just seems to me that women have a big basket of admirable qualities while men have a cup full. I guess that's one reason the other side looks so appealing.

Two more cents, please? Has anyone read Julia Serano's book "Whipping Girl"? She (a transwoman) has it nailed.

The world is at war with femininity. Masculine traits are what's valued in western society. I don't mean to imply that women don't have a right to assume traditionally masculine traits of strength, leadership, courage, etc. but in the process we devalue traditional feminine qualities. In effect, the trend is, as Sammie envisions, a day when one's biological sex is decoupled from one's gender role. So be it, but which are was criticizing, the male sex, or the male gender role?

Clara

[Samantha Rogers]

I don't mean to be argumentative, but I think calling all those traits enumerated by MissC "masculine" and vice versus for "feminine" is missing the boat. Those sets of traits are present in both male and female people, more or less according to the individual, but they appear stronger or weaker in individuals because of societal conditioning. Boys are raised to value certain traits while other traits are encouraged in girls, by society. I do not believe that these traits belong biologically to one gender or another. I have known plenty of women quite as proficient in being strong and decisive etc, and plenty of ineffectual, "ditsy" men. Remove the conditioning across the board, allow children to grow up with zero stereotypes, and I foresee that the only real difference will be in physical strength and in peeing standing up (plus many therapists would be out of work) In fact, you could make the case that over time, in a society where physical strength is no longer needed in order to ensure survival, that evolution will eventually remove the difference in strength as well. So we are left with peeing standing up. LOL