[Samantha Rogers]

OK, here is a new can of worms to poke around in...
I have been thinking lately about motivations and I would like to hear what others have to say.
For many years, my relationships with others always confused love and sex. Strong feelings of love almost always led to a desire for sex. At the same time, GID issues were also tied up in that, whether through watching TG oriented porn or through dressing, invariably leading to an act of self gratification. For many years I believed, as a result, that crossdressing was for me a sexually driven fetish and one of which I was ashamed.
Now that my libido has dropped through the floor from PM, I am no longer certain about this at all, since the need to be feminine has, if anything, now begun to strengthen exponentially while there is almost zero thought of sex anymore. When I went out this last weekend, the joy I felt was palpable, beyond description, and yet there was absolutely no sexual component to it whatsoever. None. I could never have said this before. Removing that one element has clarified the other. But I do harbor strong suspicions that the need for love, still strong in me (as I expect it is in all of us) and whatever that word "love" means, but totally unrelated to sex, is nonetheless a large component of my GID. I confess, somewhat shyly, and probably to no surprise to some, that in me it is a deep seated need to be wanted.
It is also, I expect, tied up in feelings indicative of low self esteem. And this might well apply to many GG's who come here hoping to boost their own self esteem by boosting the size of their breasts. But it will likely be different for all of us.
Thoughts? Does this resonate with anyone else?
How is that for a Monday morning question to start the week?
Let the games begin!
The confession booth is open.

[GoneGirl]

Throughout my life I've heard people say that for men sex and love are separable. "It meant nothing," is a common response to a wife's discovery of her husband's one night stand. The wife hears just a lame excuse because in her mind love and sex are inextricably linked.

I never felt there was a hard link between love and sex. It fact, in my own twisted mind, sex was sordid and sinful. It's the last thing I'd want to engage in with someone I loved and respected. I've often wondered if it's that subconscious guilt and shame that prevented my being a good male lover versus my crossdreaming desires to take the role of the woman during sex. Maybe both played a role.

It's strange how things have changed since my HRT. My male sex urges are practically non-existent. My interest in sex is linked with my love for my wife, and we enjoy intimacy more than ever and more often than not it is she that initiates. For now restoring male sexual function monthly is important to us, but I don't know how long that will be necessary.

Being a male lesbian suits me just fine.

Clara

[Marina Kits]

***Abridged***
For many years, my relationships with others always confused love and sex. Strong feelings of love almost always led to a desire for sex. At the same time, GID issues were also tied up in that, whether through watching TG oriented porn or through dressing, invariably leading to an act of self gratification. For many years I believed, as a result, that crossdressing was for me a sexually driven fetish and one of which I was ashamed.

Exactly the same for me except that I've only been with one person - my one and only bride.
Oh the guilt and shame!!! Feeling like I cheated my wife out of something she would have enjoyed for selfish gratification.

Now that my libido has dropped through the floor from PM, I am no longer certain about this at all, since the need to be feminine has, if anything, now begun to strengthen exponentially while there is almost zero thought of sex anymore.

I wouldn't say my feminine side is any more present than it was before but my libido is AWAL for certain and I love it that way. It makes for MUCH clearer separation between sex and love. Love is love, sex is sex and they have little to do with each other. I love being free to make decision withOUT input from below my belt and NOT being pushed, pulled and drug into all sorts of lasciviousness.

But I do harbor strong suspicions that the need for love, still strong in me (as I expect it is in all of us) and whatever that word "love" means, but totally unrelated to sex, is nonetheless a large component of my GID. I confess, somewhat shyly, and probably to no surprise to some, that in me it is a deep seated need to be wanted.

Funny thing has happened in our house since I started NBE. My wife used to ask me all the time if I loved her ...and it drove me crazy! It seemed like I never got the chance to tell her without her asking first which made it seem disingenuous to me. Now, I'M the one always asking her if she loves me! Some of it is because I've been so vulnerable and exposed, I'm afraid she might fly the coop and never come back but much of it is that I NEED to know I'm loved by her and hearing her say it is very reassuring. I guess the girl in me probably wants to hear it???

What does love mean? To me it means that I'm fully accepted as I am, not as I should be. I have a theory that a person can only love others as much as he or she has felt loved by someone else (parent, guardian, friend, mentor or in my case Jesus, the ultimate lover). Many of you know that my faith is very important to me. I get that it's a sore subject for most of you but in recent years, I have felt thoroughly loved by Jesus and that has amplified my love for everyone within my circle. Wife, kids, family, friends, co-workers and even strangers. Social outcasts and those with lots of baggage and abnormalities are valued as much as anyone. It's easy for me to say but if you knew me then and now, I bet you'd agree, I'm very different than I used to be and it's because I've experienced unconditional love. NBE has changed my demeanor but the love of God has changed my heart. Obviously I'm still offensive at times and prone to imperfections of all kinds but it's easier to do right than it used to be.

It is also, I expect, tied up in feelings indicative of low self esteem. And this might well apply to many GG's who come here hoping to boost their own self esteem by boosting the size of their breasts. But it will likely be different for all of us.
Thoughts? Does this resonate with anyone else?
The confession booth is open.

Low self esteem and insecure are certainly descriptive of me. I've never been popular and always had a hard time keeping friends. The later part of that has really been bothering me lately and I'm trying to figure it out. I wonder if it's because I'm not your typical male. My mannerisms aren't that effeminate but I have many illusive feminine traits that I suspect others have a hard time getting their thumb on which also make it awkward to be friends with me, male to male. I think I scare guys away from myself because I'm deeply relational, vulnerable, insecure, crave nonsexual intimacy and transparency, etc. I don't "dish-it-out well" and if you get superficial on me (sports, weather etc.) I tune out rather quickly. I'm in awe of why my wife has stuck with me for 23 years when no one else has lasted even half that long. I wonder how I'd do with GG's if I could get over my nervousness around them and my wife would allow it. I suspect I'd get along incredibly well with them.

[Missed Miss]

Love and sex??? What are those?

[Scotti]

What about rock & roll???

To me there is a distinct difference that fits the typical male perspective, though I've met some women with the same views. Love is much more emotional, unconditional, binding and endless whereas sex is mostly physical to satisfy an urge or craving. In my opinion, you can have sex without love, love without sex, or have both but it all depends on the type of relationship you have with your partner.

[AnnieBL]

It may be just a peculiarity of the way my brain works, but for more than half my life I had difficulty in reconciling love and sex, until the time when it all came gloriously together.

[Samantha Rogers]

Scotti - Your comments are very much in the ballpark of what I was considering when I started this thread. I quite realize that for many men, and as you say, some GG's as well, there is an ability to have pure sexual gratification with another without love being involved. But here is where I was going... with rare exceptions, I was never able to do that. Yes, I had a lot of relationships before I married. But almost never were they purely sexual and devoid of emotional investment. On the other hand, emotional investment in another person, whether comforting, supporting, flirting, whatever... almost always led me to a desire to push that relationship into something sexual, even if that was unintentional in the beginning. It was the fact of being wanted and emotionally charged that led to the sexual dynamic. Whereas, even when presented with attractive (sometimes extremely attractive) options which were totally random and devoid of emotion, I was uninterested to the point of occasionally being unable to perform (I would have made a terrible gigolo...tee hee). The emotion led to the sex, almost always.
I expect this says more about my personal psychology than anything else. But I believe it is in some way connected to the GID... still working on understanding that. But with the sexual aspects virtually removed,and my GID recognized, I find myself now in a unique position to offer the same kind of empathetic emotional response to others as before, but now with absolutely no strings attached. I am liking myself better this way.
And Kari - I did not mean to ignore your very thoughtful, considerate and heartfelt post. I am so continually impressed with your courage in suppressing your own desires in order to honor your commitments to your wife and family. I also quite clearly recognize in you what Flame has quite accurately described as a female personality.
This part...
<<<....but much of it is that I NEED to know I'm loved by her and hearing her say it is very reassuring. I guess the girl in me probably wants to hear it ???...>>>
resonated with me a lot. As did this...
<<<>>>
I believe there is truth in that but I would condition it slightly. As true as it is that our ability to love unconditionally must be learned from someone, I also believe we can only give as much love to others as we are able to first give to ourselves.
But, keep in mind that I may have a different definition of love than many people do. To me, love is a verb more so than a feeling. It is an action and in its purest form it is selfless. We love someone by actively trying to support them and by helping them and by wanting for them what is best and brightest for them. Love, for me, is not just a feeling of love. If it were, then there would be no difference between the love I have for my car or my scotch, and the love I have for my wife and children. The toughest part is when the love you feel and show for someone runs directly contrary to your own personal best interests. That is the real test. Now that the sexual demon is no longer part of the entire equation for me, it has liberated me to practice what I believe far more bravely. At my best, I think I come close. I find it humorously ironic that a weed from Thailand has helped me so much in this. And, no dear, I am not a follower of Jesus, but I do believe his words hold a lot of wisdom for those who seek it, when freed from the manipulations of centuries of manipulative humans. Not that it hurts, mind you, but I just don't believe one needs to find God, to see that wisdom. In truth, Kari, you and I very well may have a lot more in common than you might have believed.
Hugs

[Marina Kits]

<<<>>>
I believe there is truth in that but I would condition it slightly. As true as it is that our ability to love unconditionally must be learned from someone, I also believe we can only give as much love to others as we are able to first give to ourselves.
But, keep in mind that I may have a different definition of love than many people do. To me, love is a verb more so than a feeling. It is an action and in its purest form it is selfless. We love someone by actively trying to support them and by helping them and by wanting for them what is best and brightest for them. Love, for me, is not just a feeling of love. If it were, then there would be no difference between the love I have for my car or my scotch, and the love I have for my wife and children. The toughest part is when the love you feel and show for someone runs directly contrary to your own personal best interests. That is the real test. Now that the sexual demon is no longer part of the entire equation for me, it has liberated me to practice what I believe far more bravely. At my best, I think I come close. I find it humorously ironic that a weed from Thailand has helped me so much in this. And, no dear, I am not a follower of Jesus, but I do believe his words hold a lot of wisdom for those who seek it, when freed from the manipulations of centuries of manipulative humans. Not that it hurts, mind you, but I just don't believe one needs to find God, to see that wisdom. In truth, Kari, you and I very well may have a lot more in common than you might have believed.
Hugs

I agree with all of what you said Sammie. Love is hard to summarize. I referred to it as a feeling but you are right in calling it a verb also. When I am BEING loved by someone, it's a feeling. When I am loving someone else it's a verb and indeed, you cannot do a good job loving unless you're also being selfless.

I also agree with you about the manipulative influence man has had on what Jesus said and taught. I have no place for religion or denominations whatsoever and it pains me hear the endless stories of wonderful people who have been abused, hurt and misled by denominations and those claiming to be followers of Christ. Personally, I just try my best to know him and love the unloved as he did. And no, you don't have to be a follower of Jesus to be a good person or to love well ...but I do. So, I guess when you started this thread by bringing up LOVE (and sex), I couldn't resist. You electrified me by talking about the pinnacle emotion / action of my life. ...Faith, hope and LOVE, but the greatest of these is LOVE!

Thanks for tolerating my rant everyone. I honestly try to refrain from these types of comments here because politics and religion are so controversial ...but I really couldn't help myself this time. I'll shut up now. [sighs of relief from the crowd]

[Missed Miss]

What about rock & roll???

To me there is a distinct difference that fits the typical male perspective, though I've met some women with the same views. Love is much more emotional, unconditional, binding and endless whereas sex is mostly physical to satisfy an urge or craving. In my opinion, you can have sex without love, love without sex, or have both but it all depends on the type of relationship you have with your partner.

And, as in my case, you can have neither!

[Elisaustin]

Sex is pretty much sex it's when you combine it with love and feelings it becomes something really special.
Like the old song goes "Love the one you're with"