[SusanB]

Thank you all for your responses. While I'm happy to hear that this is normal, I'm really not thrilled with the answer. My wife wants me to see a doc and get a prescription for viagra. Which I'd be kind of embarrassed to do regardless but is that even safe in combination with PM?

[SusanB]

I have to ask why your on a feminizing herb like PM if it bothers you to loose male function???

1. I like sex. Who doesn't?

2. One thing I've learned from reading so many personal stories here, is that while we all have a lot in common, we also have many differences in terms of what our motivations are and how far we're willing to go down this path.

On one of the spectrum, there are those of us who seem to be fully entrenched in guy mode, but have a fetish for breasts and enjoy having them, and at the other end are those of us who want to fully transition to be a female. And there is everything in between. You can say I'm in between. There are times I want nothing more than to be a woman, but more times than not, I'm quite content to be a man.

Plus as many others have mentioned, there are other factors at play such as family, friends and work. An visibly obvious sexual fetish could crush career advancement. More importantly, I love my wife and would never try to make her into a lesbian. I love my kids and would never make them go through life having to have the label of "freak" applied to their dad. Nor would I want to expose my parents or sibling to shame or ridicule. That's not to put down any of you with families who didn't make the same choice - we all have varying degrees of desire and sometimes you need to put yourself first. But for me, this isn't one of those situations.

As I've mentioned in other posts, I'm not looking to fully transition, or two grow a pair of breasts which I could never hide from others. Just wanted a little extra something to make "play time" and "dress up time" more fun and enjoyable. Plus I already have some nice sensations when my wife plays with what little I have and was hoping for some additional sensitivity.

3. Did I mention I like sex?
Why would I want to give that up? And for the few times my wife isn't up for a romp, a little self pleasuring is fun too. But lately, I give up before ever climaxing. It just takes too long and too much effort. That's no fun at all. And actual sex becomes nearly impossible if you can't sustain an erection.

[SusanB]

[/quote]
- if you intend to father a child, reduce the dose.
[/quote]

I already have kids. We'd be open to, but not desperate for another. But we've tried for a while without much luck either getting pregnant or carrying to term. That's been the case for a couple years prior to pm (only been on om for 1.5 weeks so far). I've been told though that once the "pressure" is off, it might just happen. So we figured if so, it would be a nice surprise. I realize ED will make that difficult, but does PM itself cause any problems? In the research I read about it, I read it did not. Even read about a specific test on mice that had zero impact. Are you saying this is incorrect?

Thanks again to all for your helpful responses. Question: If I lower the PM dose or go off PM or take a break, how long does it take for erections to get back to normal?

[GoneGirl]

Hi again, Barry,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall you mentioning that you are experiencing any kind of gender dysphoria. From everything you've described, you are a male-identified crossdresser. There's nothing wrong with that, but my guess is that PM and anti-androgen herbs are not for you. I would suggest using quality breast forms when presenting as female is on the agenda, or, if real breasts are that vital, looking into suction devices like the Noogleberry system. There are members here who have obtained good results that way with no impact on their sex drive.

If you are intent on using herbal HRT to grow breasts, you need to take a low dose of PM, plan to take regular breaks (I break for 7 days each month), and supplement with male performance enhancing herbs like Butea Superba and L'Arginine to maintain male function. I've found that generic Viagra (e.g., Suhagra for around $1.50 for a 100 mg tablet) will also help improve the quality and duration of your erections. Just don't expect to have regular sexual intercourse as often as you are now.

All the reasons you mentioned about not wanting to transition make perfect sense. Many of us have similar reservations about NBE, myself included. In my case, however, the benefits of taking PM outweigh the negatives. Everyone has to make a personal assessment of the tradeoffs involved. If you are not gender dysphoric, if you like having sex as a man, if having permanent breasts is going to be a problem for you, then don't go down the HRT path. It would be a big mistake.

Clara

[SusanB]

Hi again, Barry,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall you mentioning that you are experiencing any kind of gender dysphoria. From everything you've described, you are a male-identified crossdresser. There's nothing wrong with that, but my guess is that PM and anti-androgen herbs are not for you. I would suggest using quality breast forms

Clara

I deliberately waited a long time to respond since I had a lot of thinking to do after reading everyone's comments.

To answer your question Clara, rather than feel specifically inclined to be male or female, my experience has been mixed. There are times that I feel fully at home and at peace in feminine form and have wanted, often longed to transition to being female. Other times I have felt quite content to be a male and wanted to enhance my male physic. These thoughts are diametrically opposed to each other and in itself has caused tremendous frustration, even trauma over the years. But since getting married and having children, my opportunities to embrace my feminine side have become too rare. And I no longer entertain the thought of ever transitioning as it would destroy my family and I love them too much for that. I had thought PM might serve as a sort of half measure. Make me more feminine but still within acceptable norms.

In my single days, I dressed often but there were rare times I would take a bit of vacation time and live fully as a women for 2 or 3 days on end (though I either wouldn't leave my home or, if I needed to make a quick trip to the store, would temporary remove my makeup and throw on male clothes or a coat over my feminine attire for fear of being "outed").

All that being said, I don't feel I need to make excuses to appreciate a pair of breasts. I think that right should belong to anyone who desires it, whether or not we want to transition. And breast forms... just don't cut it. They like nice in a dress but are obvious fakes in anything less (undergarments, or naked). Plus you can't feel them, especially when being intimate or sensual with a partner. It just isn't the same but of course I have a pair.

-----

With that out of the way, I did put a lot of thought into what you said and decided to give up cold turkey on the PM (at least for now). There were some contributing factors:

1. Even after 3 weeks and going as high as 3000mg per day, I still noticed zero changes - no growth (I don't think) and no pain or sensitivity. With it taking so long without any noticeable changes, this could start getting expensive too which is a factor.
2. I seemed to be gaining a lot of weight. Not sure if that was because of the PM, but I did recall others mentioning this as a possible side effect. It could be because I've also not had time to exercise and have been having a bit more junk food lately due to being busy with work. But I've gone through such phases before without so much weight gain. My pants won't close anymore and I can't afford a new wardrobe! I occasionally thought I saw some breast growth but wasn't sure if they just looked like that because I could see them (e.g. removed the hair from my chest) and/or the increased weight overall. Anyway, I needed to get rid of the weight so wanted to see if PM was a factor.
3. My wife decided she wanted to try to have another child after all (God helps us!). So I thought I should go off it. Ironically we just found out she is pregnant - she must have gotten pregnant right before I started PM!
4. I could never get hard to have sex or even masturbate. That really wasn't fair to my wife who really missed it and I really missed it too. Ironically, now that I can finally get hard again, she's too tired to have sex because she's pregnant! Go figure.

Surprisingly there were two unmistakeable side effects to PM which were very unexpected:
1. All desire to crossdress was gone. On the one hand, I really missed it - it always gave me such an enjoyable high. On the other hand, it freed up so much time and eliminated so much stress on our marriage (my wife hates it), that it almost felt like a "cure" to a life long problem. But if I didn't feel a desire to become a female or even dress like one, why was I taking PM?
2. I definitely experienced the calmness and mental benefits others have described. I'd describe my marriage as strong but we definitely have a lot of loud, drawn out arguments. My wife is a fighter and fights mean. Generally I'm a calm person but she knows all the buttons to press to get me to lose my temper and to drag me into a fight even when I had no intention of getting into one. The amazing thing is, while on PM, the buttons didn't work. I had this zen like calmness and never rose to take the bait. Whenever she said things, no matter how mean or hurtful, they didn't get me upset and I was able to stay cool and respond rationally, even thoughtfully. I was able to side-step all the hurtful unrelated garbage she would throw my way and identify the heart of the issue (which I could never do before since, as we know, men are from mars...). After a while, my wife would give up and calm down herself. She even noted how "zen like" I had become.

The above was a wonderful feeling and really helped our relationship. Only problem is, it made us closer, which also made us want to be more intimate, which I couldn't really do beyond cuddling.

Now that I'm off PM for 2 or 3 weeks, I desperately wanted to hold onto that calm. And for a very brief while I did. But now, no matter how much I try to be that way again, I'm not. Those buttons work as well as ever.

That was probably the change quickest to go. I only got my first erection less than a week ago. And I still don't have the desire to crossdress, though lately I've had the desire to desire to crossdress if that makes any sense.

[GoneGirl]

Hi, Barry. I really sympathize with the conflicts you are experiencing. I've had many of the same feelings -- both the joys and disappointments of the gender-hand that I was dealt.

Being bi-gender, that is, having both a male and a female gender identity in nearly equal measure is probably the most difficult condition to cope with. I made it to my 60s living the male role, but only because I was largely ignorant of the alternatives. I did it, and you can do it, too. You will have to learn to cope with the behavioral side effects of GD (the desire to crossdress, for example), but you can embrace your male side and continue to carry through on the commitments you've made to your wife and kids. (BTW, congratulations on the future birth of a new son or daughter!)

I appreciate your wanting to mediate the conflicting demands of your gender dichotomy. Maybe you still can, but it will not be easy. It's going to be a real balancing act. I started taking PM for that same reason and I was able to experience the psychological benefits soon after starting, as you did. I, too, lost my male sex drive rather quickly including the urge to view porn and masturbate. That was welcome, believe me! Yes, my erections became few and far between, as well, but since my wife is post-menopausal with a waning interest in sex, it didn't present a huge problem for either of us. You're situation is different. On the bright side, my changed demeanor, which resulted from the profound effects of estrogen on my brain, injected new life into our relationship. Intimacy actually increased to our mutual delight, but without sexual intercourse being the focus as it always was before. If you can satisfy your wife that way, with her full knowledge and support, it might work for you, too, but few of us here have that kind of spousal cooperation, so temper your hopes.

I have to mention that the effects of being on PM for 7 months so far have brought about other changes which I didn't expect. Bathing my brain cells in estrogen for an extended period has caused my feminine identity to blossom. Unlike you, I rarely crossdressed prior to starting herbal HRT. Now, with the full knowledge and support of my wife, crossdressing is very much a part of my gender expression (I just wish I was younger and prettier...hee hee). It's not that I reject my male side (I still live as a man 99% of the time), but my female side is expanding day by day. I didn't anticipate that.

I used to have second thoughts now and then about my NBE quest, but they seem to have gone away for good. Where my journey will end is still an open question. I don't plan to transition to living as a woman, but I know that the way I feel today is not necessarily the way I'll feel tomorrow. If you go down that road, you should know it's a slippery slope bathed in a pink fog.

I think you are wise to defer embarking on the PM cruise, at least for now. It might help ease some GD you are struggling with right now, but I'm 99% sure it will also cause a whole new boat load of problems that you really don't want to have to deal with at this stage of your life. I guess that's why a lot of us gender in-betweeners don't seriously address our GD issues until later in life. In time, the barriers will fall and it will become easier (I didn't say easy) to be the person you were born to be. For now, be the great husband and father that you appear to be, and enjoy the male gender role to the fullest. She (Miss Barry) will be ready waiting when the time is right.

Huggs,
Clara