[GoneGirl]

Nine days on break and my breasts are no longer sore. Also, my nipples are significantly softer. I had a strong urge to take a couple of PM caps today, but remembered my reasons for taking a break and resisted the temptation.

Funny thing, I decided to practice doing my eyes today. It was loads of fun.

Clara (is coming back to life)

[flamesabers]

Flamesabers,
Don't you dare leave us! I'd hate to see you get all hopped up on testosterone and go AWAL.

Maybe I've just been having a bad day, but this evening I've been feeling frustrated and angry with myself. My temper has reawakened. Going cold turkey might just be a coincidence. Or perhaps not.

I'm tempted to go back on pm, but then I also feel compelled to continue with this experiment. In a strange way, I think it's too important to get back into shape to give up on it now. I also think I can use these negative emotions for a good cause: refocusing myself to better myself and fulfill my ambitions.

Am I turning to the dark side? I don't know.

Flame,
Good luck with your experiment I know the effects are diffrent for everyone.

Thank you Connie.

[GoneGirl]

Maybe I've just been having a bad day, but this evening I've been feeling frustrated and angry with myself. My temper has reawakened. Going cold turkey might just be a coincidence. Or perhaps not.

Hang in there, Flame. I've felt the negative emotions during my short breaks, too. This time, nothing. Nothing yet, anyways. Maybe it's just because I'm feeling good again. I don't think there's anything inherent in a higher T-level that should make you feel frustrated and angry. Have you asked yourself why you feel that way?

Clara

[Misty0732]

I'm tempted to go back on pm, but then I also feel compelled to continue with this experiment. In a strange way, I think it's too important to get back into shape to give up on it now. I also think I can use these negative emotions for a good cause: refocusing myself to better myself and fulfill my ambitions.

Am I turning to the dark side? I don't know.

Flame,

One of the reasons I'm taking a break is to see if my T levels rise enough to help me get into shape as well. Not for running, but general conditioning. I'm 4 months post-op for my back surgery and have a limited window to ensure a full recovery -- and I need to do as well as I can on the physical therapy and conditioning exercises over the next few months. The healing and performance enhancing attributes of T are well documented.

But like you I am concerned about losing the positive (particularly mental) benefits of PM.

Dark side? Could be. It's interesting to me that in taking this break I feel more like a woman experimenting with T than a man going off HRT. That's telling in and of itself.

I'm only 4 days into my break now and notice nothing different as of yet...

Misty

[flamesabers]

Clara,

I think I feel this way because I've been upset with my tendency to procrastinate and be lazy. I guess I always have the drive to improve, but sometimes (like now) it's more prominent and pressuring me to act.

Misty,

I think your post is my first read on this forum of someone describing T as having a healing property.

In regards to having a dark side, I don't feel my gender identity is relevant. Instead, it's more about reviving the past, specifically trying to take advantage of a class of hormones I've been intentionally suppressing for the last two years. Have you read the story "Retrieved Reformation?" It's about a criminal named Jimmy Valentine who's proficient with cracking safes. After he gets out of jail, he gets a new identity and starts to build a new life that's free of crime. He falls in love with a banker's daughter. Meanwhile the police think he's still robbing banks. Towards the end of the story, the nieces of his soon to be wife accidentally lock themselves in the bank's vault. The timer for the lock hasn't been set yet, so there is no way the employees can open the door. The love of his life begs him to do something to save the girls from death by asphyxiation. He wants to save the girls obviously, but the only way he can save them is to reveal his true identity by using the skills he utilized as a criminal who cracked safes.

I can really relate to the predicament Valentine was in. I've been pummeling my testosterone levels for a while, but now I have an obvious need for some of the benefits testosterone affords. I feel as though to truly raise my level of physical fitness, I have to embrace the primal aspects of my masculine biology. Doing this of course will put my NBE on hold at the very least.

[GoneGirl]

I've been pummeling my testosterone levels for a while, but now I have an obvious need for some of the benefits testosterone affords. I feel as though to truly raise my level of physical fitness, I have to embrace the primal aspects of my masculine biology. Doing this of course will put my NBE on hold at the very least.

Flame, I can't help feeling that we are going to lose you. I hope not, honey.

Is there more going on here than we know? How long do you anticipate staying off PM?

Sorry if I'm being a bit too nosy.

I wish you only good things.

Clara

[Misty0732]

I think your post is my first read on this forum of someone describing T as having a healing property.

In regards to having a dark side, I don't feel my gender identity is relevant. Instead, it's more about reviving the past, specifically trying to take advantage of a class of hormones I've been intentionally suppressing for the last two years. Have you read the story "Retrieved Reformation?" It's about a criminal named Jimmy Valentine who's proficient with cracking safes. After he gets out of jail, he gets a new identity and starts to build a new life that's free of crime. He falls in love with a banker's daughter. Meanwhile the police think he's still robbing banks. Towards the end of the story, the nieces of his soon to be wife accidentally lock themselves in the bank's vault. The timer for the lock hasn't been set yet, so there is no way the employees can open the door. The love of his life begs him to do something to save the girls from death by asphyxiation. He wants to save the girls obviously, but the only way he can save them is to reveal his true identity by using the skills he utilized as a criminal who cracked safes.

I can really relate to the predicament Valentine was in. I've been pummeling my testosterone levels for a while, but now I have an obvious need for some of the benefits testosterone affords. I feel as though to truly raise my level of physical fitness, I have to embrace the primal aspects of my masculine biology. Doing this of course will put my NBE on hold at the very least.

Flame,

I always enjoy reading your posts... the analogies you present and the thought you put into circumstances are intriguing. Unfortunately I believe you are indeed correct. There is no denying that men are superior athletes over women, and that superiority is androgen-driven. It is possible for females to be healthy and fit, but they absolutely cannot compete athletically with men (unless they are artificially introducing androgens). So it really comes down to what your ultimate goal is, and whether you are willing to take the "bad" that comes with normal male T levels along with the "good."

The healing properties of T that I refer to are tissue and muscle-mass formation (which is a specific property of T) that also aids in enhancing performance. In my case I need muscle buildup in my core to reinforce a spine weaken by surgical removal of bone.

I'm pretty sure, however, that once I achieve restored T levels that my GID will come racing back. So will the undesirable thoughts and actions that accompany what can only be described as sexual addiction. I am kind of hoping that some aspects of prolonged use of PM may become permanent (besides just the breast growth). We'll see, but I'm fairly sure I will wind up resuming PM once I achieve my rehabilitation goals.

I truly hope that you will continue to frequent this forum regardless of your ultimate decision.

All the best,

Misty

[GoneGirl]

I'm pretty sure, however, that once I achieve restored T levels that my GID will come racing back. So will the undesirable thoughts and actions that accompany what can only be described as sexual addiction. I am kind of hoping that some aspects of prolonged use of PM may become permanent (besides just the breast growth). We'll see, but I'm fairly sure I will wind up resuming PM once I achieve my rehabilitation goals.

You may be right, Misty. It's too bad that those who were once NBE participants, who dropped off this forum, having renounced their efforts to shift their hormone balance and are never heard from again, do not enlighten us with accounts of their experiences post herbal HRT.

I'm not convinced that everyone falls back into old sexual addictions, though, especially if their romance with PM was fairly long. I'm not even convinced that gender dysphoria returns provided that an outlet for one's female identity is not also withdrawn. I've been off PM for 12 days now from just 500 to 1000 mg/day and although my erection capacity has returned, and I feel my libido returning, I don't have any urge to start with the M&P again. I still enjoy femming up, but there's no sexual arousal involved. I still have 3 weeks to go on my break, though, so we'll see if that holds.

As far as maintaining physical strength, I'm of the opinion that taking regular PM breaks, like I do each month, along with strength building exercise, would do a lot to maintain one's physical conditioning. I know GGs who are in terrific condition from a physical stamina standpoint even though they may lack the overall muscular strength of a man. I know even more men who are in terrible physical condition despite having plenty of testosterone in their blood stream. Unless I was into serious sporting competition with other men, I wouldn't be all that concerned about those differences. But, that's just me. Everyone has their own take on it.

I can't help thinking that what Flame is experiencing these days is what many go through when their attempts to feminize themselves runs into resistance from their still significant male identity. It's very difficult to find a sustainable balance of expression between opposing gender identities. It's a natural win-lose set up with rationalizations for favoring one side or the other in a seemingly perpetual wavetrain of emotion. I say that from my own experience, but see it in others here at BN, too.

Clara

[flamesabers]

Flame, I can't help feeling that we are going to lose you. I hope not, honey.

Is there more going on here than we know? How long do you anticipate staying off PM?

Sorry if I'm being a bit too nosy.

I wish you only good things.

Clara

Thanks Clara.

Yes, there is more going here than you know, but it has nothing to do with gender.

I anticipate staying off of pm for another week at the most.

Flame,

I always enjoy reading your posts... the analogies you present and the thought you put into circumstances are intriguing. Unfortunately I believe you are indeed correct. There is no denying that men are superior athletes over women, and that superiority is androgen-driven. It is possible for females to be healthy and fit, but they absolutely cannot compete athletically with men (unless they are artificially introducing androgens). So it really comes down to what your ultimate goal is, and whether you are willing to take the "bad" that comes with normal male T levels along with the "good."

The healing properties of T that I refer to are tissue and muscle-mass formation (which is a specific property of T) that also aids in enhancing performance. In my case I need muscle buildup in my core to reinforce a spine weaken by surgical removal of bone.

I'm pretty sure, however, that once I achieve restored T levels that my GID will come racing back. So will the undesirable thoughts and actions that accompany what can only be described as sexual addiction. I am kind of hoping that some aspects of prolonged use of PM may become permanent (besides just the breast growth). We'll see, but I'm fairly sure I will wind up resuming PM once I achieve my rehabilitation goals.

I truly hope that you will continue to frequent this forum regardless of your ultimate decision.

All the best,

Misty

Thanks Misty for your kind words.

In regards to androgens and physical fitness I see three options available to me:

1. I resume pm and other NBE herbs. I try to get obtain physical fitness without any real help from androgens.

2. I try to reach a halfway point between pursing NBE and utilizing androgens to boost my physical fitness.

3. I stay off of NBE herbs indefinitely while trying to build up my physical fitness.

Option 2 seems like the best route to try to get the best of both worlds. However, in doing so I feel like I'm contradicting an unspoken rule on this forum that testosterone is an evil that should be contained as much as possible. I realize that is likely a shortsighted and childish statement, however, I still feel like I'm going rogue by making use of my androgens.

Clara (in regards to your recent post),

For me it's not so much about renouncing my efforts to shift my hormonal balance, but rather about using my primary biology to further a means to an end. I prefer to pursue option 2 if it's practical.

I don't think I'm encountering resistance from a male identity because I never had one to begin with. Instead, I think it's the realization that physical fitness came easier to me before NBE than currently.

[Samantha Rogers]

Flame, some thoughts about what you just wrote...

I am not sure saying that T is automatically bad on this forum is necessarily right. Obviously, some do feel that way, as their only real goal is pushing feminization as far as possible. But others come here looking for breast growth and something between masculine and feminine. For those, managing T in order to allow breast growth seems to be the name of the game, rather than total elimination of T.
Actually, having pretty well eliminated T almost totally, along with having achieved at least as much breast growth as I once only dreamed of (before the booby greed set in...tee hee), I am now, myself, wrestling with exactly how to proceed next.
I have always said that full transition is not my goal, and in most ways I still feel that way, though it is something I can at least visualize now where I never could before. As a result, I am "toying" with trying to strike some kind of balance between maintaining breast growth while perhaps somewhat reawakening my libido. I have numerous options that have been provided to me, and am not yet sure how to proceed. But reintroduction of some T, either by reducing other items in my program or by adding syn T, or both, is now a question of concern to me.
My point is, I guess, that I do not think there are any rules here. The site is for those interested in managing, for one reason or another, their hormonal systems in order to grow breasts (though Lord knows we do stray pretty far from that central goal...tee hee). Other than that, I am guessing anything is fair game, wouldn't you think?