[roxyrolon]

Good luck with your break and back recovery

[flamesabers]

Samantha,

Thank you for your post. I'm starting to wonder if I rename this thread to"flamesabers's crisis" something.

Like you, I also have stated a full transition was never a goal for me. I agree that most of us (myself included) have other motives for taking NBE herbs than just growing breasts: brain rewiring, a more feminine buttocks, reduction of libidio, and less body/facial hair to name a few.

I did some more running tonight and I can feel my stamina is coming back to me. I'm even able to get a "runner's high!"

Even though I've abstained from NBE herbs for nearly two weeks, my feminine mentality is still very present.

For instance, when I was doing some shopping today, I briefly overhead an exchange between a wife and husband. They were shopping in the kitchenware aisle. I'll paraphrase what was said:

Wife: Honey, which ones do you think we should get? I like the pink ones.

Husband: Get the cheapest ones. Pretty ain't cheap.

To top it off, he said this in front of their two kids. Maybe it's just me, but he sounded like a real jerk!

On a more positive note, I recently found a youtube blogger who I think is very charming and amusing. She's good looking, but instead of lusting for her, I'm envious of her long hair and pretty face. I think it's safe to say even without the benefit of pm, I'll still have some feminine leanings in certain aspects of my personality.

[GoneGirl]

I think it's safe to say even without the benefit of pm, I'll still have some feminine leanings in certain aspects of my personality.

That doesn't surprise me at all, Flame. My understanding is that one's female gender identity is formed during fetal development, or maybe, more accurately stated: one's male gender identity is formed during fetal development, but for some that process is interrupted leaving the brain partly or fully female. That can't be undone. Taking estrogens can't turn a male brain into a female brain. My "brain rewiring", if you can call it that, is due primarily to a reduction in T which allows my female identity some freedom to express itself in a positive way. I'd be quite surprised if allowing my T to go back up, by female gender ID would quietly go back into the magic lamp. Too late for that..LOL..I'm hooked!

Clara

[Marina Kits]

I think we take a lot of liberty here and deviate from the BN rules, both written and unwritten, more than we probably should. The only rules we seem to enforce are to recognize each others differences and be nice. Many of our discussions have nothing at all to do with NBE and I for one, don't even stay 100% true to NATURAL breast enhancement. I think in light of your started goal of become androgynous, attempting to benefit from both genders sets of hormones is perfectly understandable and I certainly don't have a problem with you, your dilemma or discussing it here flame. I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say we hope this experiment ends well for you and want to help any way we can.

[flamesabers]

I think we take a lot of liberty here and deviate from the BN rules, both written and unwritten, more than we probably should. The only rules we seem to enforce are to recognize each others differences and be nice. Many of our discussions have nothing at all to do with NBE and I for one, don't even stay 100% true to NATURAL breast enhancement. I think in light of your started goal of become androgynous, attempting to benefit from both genders sets of hormones is perfectly understandable and I certainly don't have a problem with you, your dilemma or discussing it here flame. I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say we hope this experiment ends well for you and want to help any way we can.

Thank you for your support Kari. It means a lot to me.

I appreciate how you've reminded me about how my goal of achieving an androgynous appearance can stand to benefit from both feminine and masculine hormones. I'm relieved to hear you don't have a problem with me or my current situation.

[Misty0732]

I think we take a lot of liberty here and deviate from the BN rules, both written and unwritten, more than we probably should. The only rules we seem to enforce are to recognize each others differences and be nice. Many of our discussions have nothing at all to do with NBE and I for one, don't even stay 100% true to NATURAL breast enhancement. I think in light of your started goal of become androgynous, attempting to benefit from both genders sets of hormones is perfectly understandable and I certainly don't have a problem with you, your dilemma or discussing it here flame. I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say we hope this experiment ends well for you and want to help any way we can.

Thank you for your support Kari. It means a lot to me.

I appreciate how you've reminded me about how my goal of achieving an androgynous appearance can stand to benefit from both feminine and masculine hormones. I'm relieved to hear you don't have a problem with me or my current situation.

Kari,

Thanks for chiming in. I agree that BN is a much more accepting place, which is why I lurk here and avoid the other TG boards which border on militant when it comes to their attitudes toward anything other than full transition.

Flame,

When I first came here, I was intent on feminizing myself to the maximum extent possible (short of full transition). PM quickly changed my goals as it calmed my GID. I am now quite content to remain male, and like you have felt a need at times to take advantage of the positives androgens can provide. I've received nothing but support here, and I don't think you have to worry about being labeled by any of the members.

Misty

[Misty0732]

I think it's safe to say even without the benefit of pm, I'll still have some feminine leanings in certain aspects of my personality.

That doesn't surprise me at all, Flame. My understanding is that one's female gender identity is formed during fetal development, or maybe, more accurately stated: one's male gender identity is formed during fetal development, but for some that process is interrupted leaving the brain partly or fully female. That can't be undone. Taking estrogens can't turn a male brain into a female brain. My "brain rewiring", if you can call it that, is due primarily to a reduction in T which allows my female identity some freedom to express itself in a positive way. I'd be quite surprised if allowing my T to go back up, by female gender ID would quietly go back into the magic lamp. Too late for that..LOL..I'm hooked!

Clara

Clara,

I agree that brain development and gender identity is determined in the womb. What makes some of us different is a less than full determination (that is, in my case, I apparently started out with the right hormone mix but something changed during gestation, and now I find myself somewhere in-between).

I believe that T is somewhat toxic to my brain. Hence my brain reacts in a negative way and produces urges and desires that I desperately want to avoid. I think that the "brain re-wiring" that is often referred to here, at least in my case, is lowering T and increasing E which in turn satisfies my partially female brain. The trick for me is finding the right balance and sticking to it.

Misty

[GoneGirl]

Clara,

I agree that brain development and gender identity is determined in the womb. What makes some of of different is a less than full determination (that is, in my case, I apparently started out with the right hormone mix but something changed during gestation, and now I find myself somewhere in-between).

I believe that T is somewhat toxic to my brain. Hence my brain reacts in a negative way and produces urges and desires that I desperately want to avoid. I think that the "brain re-wiring" that is often referred to here, at least in my case, is lowering T and increasing E which in turn satisfies my partially female brain. The trick for me is finding the right balance and sticking to it.

Misty

I totally agree with your view that T is bad for a transgender's brain. Have you read this paper by Dr. Anne Vitale?

Testosterone Toxicity Implicated in Male-To-Female Transsexuals?

Part of what I want to accomplish on my extended cold turkey break is to see if this toxic effect returns.

Clara

[Lenneth]

Clara,

I agree that brain development and gender identity is determined in the womb. What makes some of of different is a less than full determination (that is, in my case, I apparently started out with the right hormone mix but something changed during gestation, and now I find myself somewhere in-between).

I believe that T is somewhat toxic to my brain. Hence my brain reacts in a negative way and produces urges and desires that I desperately want to avoid. I think that the "brain re-wiring" that is often referred to here, at least in my case, is lowering T and increasing E which in turn satisfies my partially female brain. The trick for me is finding the right balance and sticking to it.

Misty

I totally agree with your view that T is bad for a transgender's brain. Have you read this paper by Dr. Anne Vitale?

Testosterone Toxicity Implicated in Male-To-Female Transsexuals?

Part of what I want to accomplish on my extended cold turkey break is to see if this toxic effect returns.

Clara

Excellent Article, please post any more like it that you have.

[Misty0732]

I totally agree with your view that T is bad for a transgender's brain. Have you read this paper by Dr. Anne Vitale?

Testosterone Toxicity Implicated in Male-To-Female Transsexuals?

Part of what I want to accomplish on my extended cold turkey break is to see if this toxic effect returns.

Clara

Yes, I am familiar with Dr. Vitale's work. Reading her articles was quite a revelation (they made so many things clear).

I guess what convinces me most is that there have been a few times that I have actively worked to raise my T levels beyond normal (through supplements and other natural means). While I had expected raising T to make my GID disappear, quite the opposite happens. At one point I was even seriously considering transition. In fact, it was during one of these experiments that I found my way into this forum. If you look at my earliest posts you'll see what I mean about feminization --but within weeks of starting PM everything changed.

And, as I mentioned before, I am also hopeful that at some point the effects of the PM may be more permanent. At the very least I should eventually experience what is often called andropause (the male equivalent of menopause).

Misty