[EvaMarie]

Yes it really was that easy for me... No therapy and I wasnt even asked if I was seeing a therapist or shrink.... Just a $35.00 copay for the doc visit...

Oh yea it was fun going to pick them up and finally getting something for all the $$$ I pay for my own private health insurance... The bill was $8.00 A bit less than what I paid at inhousepharmacy....

[EvaMarie]

Hi LittleMissS, I am delighted for you but OMG you have to have a degree in the subject just to get a handle on it LOL!

I think the headaches will subside when your body gets used to the change of drug, I believe it is a common side effect.

Good luck and please keep us updated, I am really interested.

Love
Heather X

Thanks Heather I hope so

Ill stick around here as long as you girls will have me

The bitches on the TG boards can be a bit too dramatic for me I love this place

I do know what you mean about other boards... there are some real TG police out there...my way or the highway...and they often frown on DIY and really hate anything to do with herbs with a vehement passion.

Be aware that when you get into higher doses of E there are pros and cons to different delivery options. 6mgs is a lot taken orally and can have a serious affect on your liver. But there are downsides to patches (low potency) and to injections ( wears off and you end up on a hormonal roller coaster between injections).

Sarah posted this very informative link - http://www.hemingways.org/GIDinfo/hrt_m2f.htm
It is a good primer, but do more reading...your best friend in all of this is your own knowledge, sweetheart.

Hugs

Yea Ive already read everything I can find but Im sure there is more out there to read.... I gotta research this medroxyprogesterone for sure.... I can tell you the girl I got the docs info from is on the same thing and I have been watching her results, they have been impressive

[Samantha Rogers]

Hi LittleMissS, I am delighted for you but OMG you have to have a degree in the subject just to get a handle on it LOL!

I think the headaches will subside when your body gets used to the change of drug, I believe it is a common side effect.

Good luck and please keep us updated, I am really interested.

Love
Heather X

Thanks Heather I hope so

Ill stick around here as long as you girls will have me

The bitches on the TG boards can be a bit too dramatic for me I love this place

I do know what you mean about other boards... there are some real TG police out there...my way or the highway...and they often frown on DIY and really hate anything to do with herbs with a vehement passion.

Be aware that when you get into higher doses of E there are pros and cons to different delivery options. 6mgs is a lot taken orally and can have a serious affect on your liver. But there are downsides to patches (low potency) and to injections ( wears off and you end up on a hormonal roller coaster between injections).

Sarah posted this very informative link - http://www.hemingways.org/GIDinfo/hrt_m2f.htm
It is a good primer, but do more reading...your best friend in all of this is your own knowledge, sweetheart.

Hugs

Yea Ive already read everything I can find but Im sure there is more out there to read.... I gotta research this medroxyprogesterone for sure.... I can tell you the girl I got the docs info from is on the same thing and I have been watching her results, they have been impressive

Tee hee... maybe you are ahead of the curve, honey! Keep us posted, OK?

[SarahSchilling]

Medroxyprogesterone acetate is commonly sold under the brand name Provera in the US. Searching under this name may provide you with more results.

Seems like the farther west you live the more likely you are to get it instead of spiro, which is great for you since, from everything I've read, it seems to have less side effects....although headaches are one for all progestins.

I pondered ordering it from inhouse before, but siterone won me over with its reviews of being the best testosterone killer. This claim rang true as my T was 75 the last time i had it tested.

I know it's a good source of progesterone, but I'm curious as to how effective Provera is as an anti-androgen. Let us know if it keeps the facial hair from regrowing, as while siterone is amazing at killing T, its long term effect on the liver has me a bit scared. I've love to find an alternative and spiro just doesn't seem to work for me.

Btw, the 2mg Teva tabs are what both Sammie and I got for an estradiol. I also find it amusing that you're going to take 4 until a few weeks before your labs and then drop it down to 2. I decided to do the same but subbing siterone for spiro until test time.

Good luck! I'm glad getting your script was easier than it was for me lol

[EvaMarie]

Thanks Sarah I did not know it is likely generic Provera, definitely gonna research that

Did I mention IM HAPPY TODAY

[EvaMarie]

OK so what Ive found on the Provera is its possibly beneficial for breast growth but it is not an AA at all....

Sarah all I could find on Siterone is that it is a very potent AA but not available in the states for prescription???

Im not liking any of the info Im finding on AA's, Spiro dont sound very appealing to me at all....

I am thinking I will keep going with the NBE and the HRT though...

I cant see the harm in going with PM at 1000 mg, I have a lot of it and I do like PM

I also cant see any harm in keeping the licorice 450 mg cap one a day...

The spearmint cant hurt either but Im thinking only 1-2 400 mg caps a day instead of 5-6

Im really intrigued by hops and Im thinking about adding them....

I took half the medroxyprogesterone dose with 1 mg E this AM and no headache so far

SO this is the new plan, syn HRT with a bit of NBE for you purist herbalists

4mg E2 with dosage of 1mg morning, 1mg afternoon, 2mg evenings, taken sublingually....

5mg "Provera" 1/2 morning, 1/2 afternoon...

1000 mg PM, 500 mid morning, 500 afternoon....

450 mg licorice mid morning

800 mg spearmint, 400 mid morning, 400 afternoon...

Might as well add 1 400mg Chinese Skullcap in there somewhere...

Looking into hops for their AA effect and beneficial effect on alpha and beta E receptors

[SarahSchilling]

Yeah, that's what I gathered about Provera as well, that it doesn't block DHT....but every progestin I've looked has has some sort of AA action even if it doesn't block DHT. There must be something more to it.

Also, just so you know, they make Estradiol pills much stronger than a sublingual does would need to be since 75% or so is nuetralized on the first pass through the liver, which, if swallowed, is where it goes to before the bloodstream.

Sublingually puts it directly into the bloodstream, so a much smaller dose is recommended. I've read that .5 mg or so is the most you should do sublingually at a time. Of course, feel free to do more than that, but be on the lookout for shortness of breath, leg pains, or signs of poor circulation. If they appear, then drop the dose down. If not, then go for it! Just be aware that sublingual is roughly 3 times more potent a delivery method and that amount hits your system much faster.

Don't want you getting a blood clot.

[EvaMarie]

Well Ive decided Im not going to take the Provera for now because it really gives me a headache and after reading everything I can find out about it I cant see any reason to take it

I did take 5 mg of E2 yesterday and the effect felt to me just like taking a very high dose of like 5-6 grams of PM...

I get a mild back ache and sometimes very slight pain in my arms at that high of a dose of PM and it was pretty much exactly the same on the E2...

Ive read the highs and lows on the E are higher and lower sublingually so Ive been going 1 mg at a time throughout the day so far....

Admittedly it hasnt been long for me at all on E though

I can say I felt like I was stalling out a bit on the PM but the E seems to have stopped that for sure

On the PM I could usually feel it go to work right after taking it in my little girls....

First mg of E this morning sure was nice Shortly after it was dissolved they got that nice little itch and warmth then the good pain stronger than ever for a awhile before calming down a bit

I also could literally feel a bit of a tingle in my nuts at the same time that I never got on PM

Im thinking Im going to ask the doc about going on Prometrium (bio identical micronized progesterone).... But Im not sure I even need progesterone yet... Ive read that it isnt really necessary until you have more mature breasts... It is a 5 AR blocker though supposedly....

Id go with finesteride or dutestreride but Im not sure my insurance would cover that and Im not sure it would be worth it for trying to revive the long gone hair on my bald dome...

So that leaves Spiro...

This stuff looks interesting though and very powerful stuff from what Ive read on it and it might be useful in lower doses than used for prostate cancer... Im no doctor though Id think an endo would be needed to go on this stuff....

Bicalutamide blocks androgen receptors. This prevents testosterone and other androgens from binding to the receptors. Bicalutamide may cause sexual difficulties and a decline in sperm count. Nevertheless bicalutamide monotherapy appears to have minimal effect on sexual activity.[20]

Blockade of androgens receptors by bicalutamide in the brain will eliminate the negative feedback loop of testosterone on the release of luteinizing hormone (LH). This in turn will lead to a dramatic increase in testosterone and estrogen levels.[21] Bicalutamide treatment will block the effects of rising testosterone levels, but the effect of rising estrogen levels will remain unopposed and lead to feminizing effects, the most notable one being gynecomastia, which is often painful.[22]

If bicalutamide is combined with an LHRH agonist or surgical castration then the elevation of estrogen levels will be prevented and the risks of excessive estrogen will be reduced. However, since both testosterone and estrogens are essential for normal bone metabolism, reducing the anabolic bone effects of both androgens (which increase bone formation by stimulating osteoblasts)[23] and estrogens (which reduce bone resorption by inhibiting osteoclasts)[24] will increase bone loss and promote osteoporosis.[25]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicalutamide

[AnnieBL]

If you have a choice between bio-identical progesterone and Provera (medroxyprogesterone) which despite its generic name is not progesterone but a synthetic progestin with some nasty side effects, I'd see the answer as a no-brainer. Although it is not too easy getting the bioidentical progesterone here without a prescription, and I used to have some generic medroxyprogesterone I was always sheered away from using the latter.

[SarahSchilling]

Yeah, you do probably want to be taking an anti-androgen. Prometrium/Microgest could serve that function, but I don't know about taking it everyday, as like you said early breast development in females doesn't involve progesterone.

I tried Spiro for a few weeks at a relatively high dose, and it just did not get the job done...at all. Probably wasted the results of like two laser treatments thanks to that stuff.

Bicalutamide? Honestly I've never heard of it before.

Personally, I'm in love with Androcur/Siterone (cyproterone acetate) for the short term, but the only way to get that prescribed in the US is to be a sex offender.

They have to take it in very dangerous doses though. Like 6 times what I take. I"m sure it really destroys their livers at that dose.

Anti-androgens are truly the most dangerous part of HRT these days. I wish I could just do without them, but my facial hair says no.

Oh, btw...I think it's awesome that you decided to research what you were prescribed and make your own decision! Too many people just blindly follow their doctors, and even those doctors who do care about their patients often operate with very little (or outdated) knowledge.