Tibetan....thanks for adding to the discussion. Some of what you say I agree with. Other parts... well, not surprisingly, I do not. Let me explain.
First, I admit I said some things earlier out of a knee jerk reaction. I have seen so very much pain and loneliness in so many girls who have struggled with this issue for years and indeed from many who are still struggling. I find am automatically prone to protective behavior of them when I feel an unjust attack.
Human, I suppose.
But, the nature of much of the anger and bile on that site, is for me, while possibly understandable, none the less something I find sad, immature and extremely distasteful.
It was pointed out earlier in this thread that there are crossdressing males who are absolute scum.
True enough.
There are also people of all stripes and genders who meet that description.
And there are those who are possessed of a sexual fetish for crossdressing.
Fair enough. I am less concerned with them, though I stipulate that they need some level of human forgiveness as well
I am, however, concerned with those for whom the primary condition is one of Gender Dysphoria.
No, I do not, as some have said, imply this is something wrong with them that needs to be fixed.
They simply are what they are in most cases, and most were formed that way to one degree or another from a very early stage. It has been discussed in other threads that various factors are potentially responsible for this, including, not least, the treatment with certain drugs of pregnant mothers during fetal gestation. Drugs that were intended to prevent miscarriage but had the affect, being heavily laced with Estrogen, of altering standard differentiation of gender in the developing infant brains.
Regardless, it has been established that many (and the number seems to be growing as more and more come forward with the advent of the communication now possible through the internet) are simply Gender Dysphoric to one degree or another.
Some are so to an extreme degree. These are the ones that simply “know”, from the earliest age, that their physical form, and the expected gender role that accompanies that form in society, is simply wrong.
For generations, I expect, individuals like this lived lives of unexplained and merciless misery in the days before gender therapy, HRT and SRS made possible the transition to a form that allowed them to at least enjoy some measure of authenticity in being.
But for every one like that, there are countless others for whom the dysphoria is at some other level, from mild to near severe, but for them it is no less real. The difficulty for them, is in being able to recognize the situation (no easy feat in itself sometimes) and learn to honestly approach dealing with it.
Men, from the time they are born, are taught by a binary society the ways in which “men” are supposed to act and dress, what they are supposed to like and dislike. For the Gender Dysphoric male, this is extremely problematic. Often they do not even begin to understand why they do not feel comfortable with or able to “fit in” with others of their gender . They often become detached or solitary, or develop anxieties they cannot explain to themselves. Many become loners, seeking peace in lonely solitude. Others, seeking answers in the wrong places, may wrongly assume they are homosexual. Some actually are or force themselves to become so.
It is a complicated situation made so mainly by a binary society that makes no provision for the fact that it is not a binary world when it comes to gender. Physically, perhaps, but certainly not psychologically. Perhaps it once was? I don't know. But it is no longer.
Perhaps, evolution, both genetically and sociologically, that once found benefit in a defined binary relationship between genders, what with needs for warriors and hunters, nurturers and caregivers, no longer, in the developing world, sees the same benefit? Occupations and social change are slowly eliminating the need, in may ways, for such a binary to exist. When many and perhaps most modern occupations can be accomplished with equal aplomb by any person of ability, regardless of gender, are such distinctions any longer necessary from the perspective of propagation and survival? Hardly.
Regardless. The “why” of how people become Gender Dysphoric is irrelevant. The practicality in a rigidly binary society is not. Ideally, we would live in a world where strict gender roles were forgotten and children were allowed to develop freely, unencumbered by societally imposed preconditions. And where life would involve no prejudicial and mocking stereotyping, because such stereotypes would not exist. There would be still your “manly men” and your “feminine women”, but there would also be, quite naturally, every possible variant in between, all coexisting quite freely and happily together.
But this, of course, is a fairy tale (no pun or slur intended).
For whatever reason, it is human nature to look for scape goats.... people to whom we may feel superior as a way to bolster our own frail egos. Racism and homophobia, and the accompanying slurs and hateful ridicule, are all the result of this unfortunate and reprehensible condition. Prejudice against males with the need to express a feminine side in order to meet the demands of internal gender division fall prey to this in a doubled or even tripled manner. On one hand, they are perceived and ridiculed for wanting to express a very real portion of themselves. Then they are further encouraged, nay almost required to deny that side. And finally they are ridiculed as weak (the biggest sin of all.... I say, voice dripping with sarcasm), when they cannot find a way to adequately face such pressure and overcome the societal conditioning. And, heaven forbid some might display even greater “weakness” by seeking assistance from trained and professional therapists, not to fix the dysphoria, but in order to help them overcome the imposed and misplaced feelings of shame and guilt.
Thankfully, the internet has made it far easier for young people today to quickly learn that they are not alone, that they are not broken, and that the problem lies with society and not in themselves. But for many of an older generation this was not possible. The solitude of feeling as though they were possessed by some horrible affliction, as society encouraged, no, demanded they believe, forced most into psychological prisons of guilt and shame. It may be difficult for those of a more recent generation to understand, as so many changes have occurred in this regard in recent years, and so many resources have become available now, but for the older ones among us, those years of childhood and early development were sheer hell. They forced many psychological denials that ran extremely deeply into the minds of many. Those conditions formed minds that sought to conform and caused marriages, enlistments in the military, choices of occupations, all designed to try to compensate for a missing masculinity. Learning to accept that the dysphoria would never go away, and that, indeed it would grow stronger with time and despite all strident efforts to deny it and repress it, dealt a heavy blow to many and placed them in situations from which there was no easy and no palatable way out. Marriages, children, responsibilities, piled one atop another in earnest original attempts to deny the truth and meet societal expectations...efforts made with the purest of motives ie. To “cure” themselves of that which society told them was sinful, perverted and shameful... made admitting to anyone... a spouse, a child even themselves... an act of almost impossibility to face. And when these individuals finally reach a breaking point, where the choice is no longer between happiness and misery but between sanity and madness or death, and finally find the courage and bravery to come forward and stand before society, whether it be the entire world or just a supposedly loving spouse and tearfully acknowledge and confess the shame and pain they have endured for simply hiding how they were made... well, is it any wonder that there is pain in being ridiculed further by the very person they love the most and to whom they have made themselves most vulnerable?
Honesty is easy to preach, but very often in this case a very difficult goal to attain. Such is the pressure involved
There is nothing unnatural about being the person you were born to be. And there should be no shame in accepting that. But it is far from easy to accept. In light of how the deck is stacked against them in this society, is it any wonder it takes so many so long to finally be honest not only with the world, but even with themselves?
Now a word about “perversion”. Though I can understand the words you speak quite clearly, I disagree with you wholeheartedly. When the physical body in which one finds oneself is not the one that matches your identity, coming to terms with that dichotomy forces some radical behavior. Genetic women do not “need” to manifest themselves in clothing or makeup in order to feel a woman. The basic container does that for them automatically. A Gender Dysphoric male enjoys no such luxury and must compensate for the lack or original manufacturer equipment in other ways. Hence the desire to go to greater and greater lengths to “feel” more like the person they feel to be inside. Rejecting that as “perverted” is simply a failure to fully understand the condition of Gender Dysphoria and to further the wrong headed idea that there is something “wrong” with those who have a GID. Sorry, but that is true.
And, even so, many GG's still enjoy the feminine touches of makeup, nice clothing and adornments. They find it fun to be pretty. Why should bio males, with partially feminine identities, deny themselves the same pleasure, especially when it quells the dysphoria?
Unless you accept that the binary nature of gender definement is “natural” and the only “right” way for things to be (based on what “perverted misunderstanding I cannot see, nor do I accept), then simply stating that the act of bio males aspiring to femininity is somehow an act perverting the feminine identity is just ridiculous. If there is no binary in reality but only one imposed by society, then what “right” do genetically born women have to exercise proprietary rights over “feminine” dress or mannerism?
None, I would assert.
And in light of copious and clinically proven evidence that GID and its accompanying anxiety are undeniably real, your statement that “Its simply unnecessary for a genetic male to express these type of habits in order to be fulfilled” is patently absurd. GID males express through crossdressing, HRT, and SRS as the only means possible to find peace.
And here is where I found most trouble with the comments on the other forum. Time after time I encountered the attitude that crossdressing and other acts of that ilk were a “habit” or worse still “a hobby” as though are talking about a mildly amusing pursuit like stamp collecting, or bowling instead of, as it truly is, an acknowledgement that it is this expression or some form,mild or otherwise, of insanity. This is not a hobby. This is reality. This is survival, plain and simple.
To come to a final point ( I hope), I do very well understand the mental gymnastics GID males go thru to deny to themselves (and others) the truth about themselves. The mind will go to great lengths to deny painful truths. But crossdressing GID males hold no patent on poorly formed ability when it coms to truly healthy thinking and emotional truth. Most people walking around this world, and with no differentiation between genders, have some form of mental health issue to one degree or another, however slight. No one is perfect. We are all human.
I further understand that the revelation of these pieces of unfortunate dishonesty will have, as someone said “consequences”. I further understand that many women will not be psychologically able to deal with the revelation, for any of a multitude of reasons. We are, none of us, saints or perfect. I further understand that in many relationships other problems exist, predating this bombshell.
But I am a romantic at heart. I believe in the essential goodness of people, however twisted it may have become through dealing with suffering, bad example, untenable circumstance and/or human frailty. But I also believe that a solid marriage, no, a deep love, upon which, for my money, a solid marriage should be based, is itself about far more than physical form. The human body is not a constant. It ages and changes. It grows fat and sometimes incontinent. If a marriage is based simply on physical appearance it is doomed from the start. Rather, the love that a solid marriage is really based upon is itself rooted in so many other things... kindness, respect, generosity.... a twinkle in the eye...a smile at exactly the right moment...a sense of humor... a perfectly timed act of love now and then.... a million things... and almost all having to do not one bit with actual physical appearance, but rather with the heart and the soul within.
If that love is real, and is accompanied by the corresponding active “love as a verb” care for the spouse, then that love will care for the pain and anxiety of the other, and wish to see it alleviated. It does not mean they must actively become a part of it, or even ruin their own happiness if they cannot find it in themselves to deal with it. But to actively turn away from understanding and instead hurl hatred and bile.... I am sorry but that is not “love” in my book. Walking away is OK, I get that. Walking away while hurling insults and bigotry? Not so much.
On the other hand, perhaps forgiving these women for being too “weak” to support the “weakness” of their husbands … is just as important. Mea culpa. Sorry.
We are none of us perfect, after all. It is human to have weakness. It is human to make mistakes.
It is graceful to accept that.
It is divine to forgive.
