[TibetanPrincess]

BTW, I'm not talking about TG's. I know its only a percentage and the spectrum is broad. I'm talking about the in betweens and those who claim to be straight.

TG's I really think need to let their spouses know when they come to terms with themselves that they are females inside the wrong body.

Also, if it were me, I'd bring a supportive individual to break it to whomever I think needs to know. I know its private, but i d feel safer that way, letting it sink into their minds and at the same time, hopefully there's no flying fists or objects coming at me.
I wouldn't care what anyone thought, I'd just want the weight off of me, move on and live my life.

[GoneGirl]

BTW, I'm not talking about TG's. I know its only a percentage and the spectrum is broad. I'm talking about the in betweens and those who claim to be straight.

I hate to have to say this, Tibetan, but this comment, more than anything, shows how little you know about gender identity variation as an in-born condition. I suggest that you educate yourself in the subject area before engaging in further discussion. A good place to start is Dr. Anne Vitale's book The Gendered Self. It will correct a lot of misconceptions you have about transgenderism.

Clara

[AnnieBL]

BTW, I'm not talking about TG's. I know its only a percentage and the spectrum is broad. I'm talking about the in betweens and those who claim to be straight.

TG's I really think need to let their spouses know when they come to terms with themselves that they are females inside the wrong body.

Also, if it were me, I'd bring a supportive individual to break it to whomever I think needs to know. I know its private, but i d feel safer that way, letting it sink into their minds and at the same time, hopefully there's no flying fists or objects coming at me.
I wouldn't care what anyone thought, I'd just want the weight off of me, move on and live my life.

Here I too have to part company with you, since I can't categorize myself other than an in-between. Despite the horrific problems that they face, one thing I envy in those genetic males who are certain that they
are really women is that certainty. I grew up being forced into a behavioural box in which as a genetic male I was expected to exhibit masculine behaviour with which I was profoundly uncomfortable and being chided for failure to do so despite my best efforts to conform, and also with an intense curiosity as to what it would feel like to be a woman. Cross dressing was an experiment I rapidly abandoned well before I married because I felt that it merely made me ridiculous and did nothing to satisfy my curiosity, but now things have changed a bit. I am long past any point at which transition could be an option, I recognize that the die is cast and I have to live and present to the world as a male despite any limited degree of feminisation of my body that has occurred, but I would still like to satisfy my curiosity about the woman I might have been if I can do so without harming anyone. I don't think that is perverted in any sense.

As for breaking things to my wife, this has been a difficult ongoing process because she acknowledges that there are things that she would rather not know. She was one of the earliest female entrants into a then very male dominated profession, and having broken through all the obvious barriers eventually found that the most difficult thing to live with was the attitude of other female professionals who tried to force her into a behavioural box in which she was profoundly uncomfortable, so she set up on her own. She got great satisfaction from the male professional who characterized her as 'one tough lady' and 'not a team player' but nevertheless ultimately bought her practice for a fair price.

[TibetanPrincess]

Are you sure about that? That's like me saying hypothetically, what do you know, you are not a biological woman. You have no idea what its like as a genetic woman fulfilling the wife role, how this hampers the family dynamic, my perspective of my husband, feeling insecure that he will won't pull his weight and be the head of household like we need because hes too hung up on his desires to CD and. unfortunately, we are not equals (biologically speaking). Its only natural for a wife to feel secure with a man who is sure of himself, honest, and fulfilling his husbandly duties. We are the weaker sex, so no need to be macho, but please, stay masculine, we need that strength. Its just how most women are biologically wired. We feel safe and secure with a masculine man.

I could go on saying one doesn't know what they are talking about when claiming they are female inside, while male on the outside. How can one prove with tests they are female while their genetics gave them the opposite sex as a gender?

Continuing to also say like many wives have about their partners, that they would never be female, therefore, not know what it is like to be one. How on earth could one identify themselves as such in any way when they are already male?

Things that I am seeing with the in between:

Many of you claim to be straight. But are you? Do you find yourself attracted to your gender and are either okay with or fighting it?

Uncertainty: If you are uncertain about why you do certain things or what you should truly identify with, when you yourself may not quite have figured it out. How can you say you know what you are talking about?

Acceptance: You wish for your SO,close ones to accept you. But you have been fighting it off/on or all the time, struggling throughout your life. So how can you expect the majority to accept you as you are?

Male Mode: functioning as a bio male is obviously not so bad at all. Because if it were so, you'd be screaming to get out of the body you are in. Some of you want to stay on the borderline because they want the best of both worlds, mentally, spiritually, sexually and physically.Many do not want to lose the male functions, some of you just want to tame it.

A form of Entitlement: That "why can't I." But you do. Just not as comfortably as you'd like. You wish the world would see you as both male and female or just accept you as you are.

I think its the inbetween that struggles more to understand than anyone who isn't in the category. I dont envy this, I feel for those of you that never get peace.

I just know most straight women and being married myself before.

That is coming from a woman who loves to be in control of things, I'm a topper, I don't want to be suzy homemaker, I want to make my own money and a man who stays home with the kids is fine by me, but when it comes down to hard times, Id like to think he can take over and let me rest, but also no matter what, do all the heavy hardcore things around the house and make the final family decisions (though I fight my controlling nature), I don't want to see him feminizing himself in any way, killing his muscle strength and assertive nature.

I have a feeling people will never understand one another, you just have to believe what YOU believe YOU cannot speak for other CD'ers whether it be TG related or something else entirely nor speak for those who don't understand. Its just as much of a responsibility on your part as it is the SO.

I would also be envious of those who knew early on, they are in the wrong body. I have a feeling it might be spiritually related for some of you and that being male isnt so terrible at all, its just that you have been female before this life and carry your character traits with you, so you may be discovering so much of real self as time goes on, its familiar, its comforting. That may be where the feminine expression comes from.

When I was a little girl, I felt like a boy. Not all the time, just sometimes. I would walk around shirtless in my underwear believing I was a boy when I was 6. The feelings of gender resentment happened in highschool. I hated having a menstrual cycle, I felt very insecure! Was jealous of the guys. I hated guys, was very confused, was hardly attracted to them! I made myself date them. Until I met my first real serious relationship. I fell in love with his whole person. He wore long hair, was not at all macho. Very soft hearted.

There were times during my marriage, I wondered what it was like to be a full on male version of myself and if I would switch if I could, I came to conclusion, we are probably all with male to female innards and that I wouldn't change my gender, that I was just fine being either and in this life, I am female and feminine for the most part. I found it unnecessary to express that I have a male side. That's the contradiction to the statement above, how the hell would I know what it is to be male! Or have a male part inside of me??

If God told me I had to chose between an less attractive woman or a gorgeous looking male, I'd choose to be the gorgeous male.

I was told by more than one psychic I had been male before in a past life but in this life Im female. I truly believe that. But it does not mean it is a fact. So we could talk all we want as we are, whether it be inbetween, TG, Pan, vite, typ male or female. We'll never be able to prove we've figured it out.


Im not in resentment, fighting with myself on what I should have been anymore. I got over myself! Like you, I like what I like, who I like, I think the difference is, I love playing my actual gender role, though I'm no high maintanence girly girl, Im somewhere inbetween. And if I were male, Id imagine Id love to play the male role as well, not being at all macho, just a dude who loves the ladies and perhaps find men attractive.

BTW, I'm not talking about TG's. I know its only a percentage and the spectrum is broad. I'm talking about the in betweens and those who claim to be straight.

I hate to have to say this, Tibetan, but this comment, more than anything, shows how little you know about gender identity variation as an in-born condition. I suggest that you educate yourself in the subject area before engaging in further discussion. A good place to start is Dr. Anne Vitale's book The Gendered Self. It will correct a lot of misconceptions you have about transgenderism.

Clara

@ Annabel,
that rather not know thing is fear based. That's because she either felt she married you with secrets and the initial was shocking enough, so what more shall she find out, or she knew all along of your characteristic tendencies and is in denial.

I can see if you are just barely breaking the news, that would do it to her like marrying under false pretenses.

I have a feeling if men were just honest with themselves from the get go, they'd find someone for them, that is accepting. All of this would have never been. Sure, fam may not take it to well, but that's un avoidable.

"look, I'm this way and was eversince I could remember, don't know why, just am. If you can accept me for as I am, we can make it. I wont break your trust or your heart."
I could see a typical situation of co parenting/best friendship if doesn't work out, being closer to your partner and actually being happy if it does.

[MissC]

I hate to have to say this, Tibetan, but this comment, more than anything, shows how little you know about gender identity variation as an in-born condition. I suggest that you educate yourself in the subject area before engaging in further discussion.

I don't believe it shows any such thing. I believe it's clear from reading what she's writing that she is giving the issues some serious thought -- and sharing HER opinions... which you and your star twin are simultaneously dismissing and attacking.

Opinions are like armpits you know... everyone's got a couple of them. Opinions are subjective, not objective like facts... and she's entitled to her own. I see, thus far, none of her opinions which could be legitimately challenged on a factual basis, since it's all about feelings, which cannot be scientifically qualified. (Which, by the way, is what your suggested book also contains -- scientifically unverifiable opinions.)

Frankly, your suggestion to the contrary is rude. The discussion you and Samantha Rogers are having with tibetan113 is NOT the supportive and understanding conversation of women. You're beating her over the head.

Odd for guys who say they're women inside, I think.

[MissC]

Well... this topic isn't going to win me any friends with the guys here....

Are you sure about that? That's like me saying hypothetically, what do you know, you are not a biological woman.

There's no need to be hypothetical about it. We'll truly never know for sure. I can know -- or maybe 'feel' is a better word -- that my soul has a strong feminine side... but even "she" has never experienced a menstrual cramp. Not in this lifetime, anyway. Was that TMI?

Its only natural for a wife to feel secure with a man who is sure of himself, honest, and fulfilling his husbandly duties.

Indeed. And in my prior relationships, that's how it's been. (Not married though) I have all the things punched on my "man card". I can build houses, fix cars, weld, fix plumbing... name it.

How can one prove with tests they are female while their genetics gave them the opposite sex as a gender?

Can't be done. It's all subjective. We've discussed the so-called "gender tests" here in other threads... they are all built on asking vague and subjective questions of the taker. That is to say, there is nothing definitive in the way we might test blood for diabetes, or identify a viral pathogen.

However, to be fair, that is not the case with intersex conditions, which are chromosomal in nature. These are physical differences, and repeatably testable. It is also true that many 'transgender' people may simply be intersex and not be aware of it.

That isn't to dismiss the feelings people may have... it's just important to remember that feelings are not an accurate measure of anything but one's feelings.

but when it comes down to hard times, Id like to think he can take over and let me rest, but also no matter what, do all the heavy hardcore things around the house and make the final family decisions (though I fight my controlling nature),

Bless you for understanding that being "the man" is an enormous responsibility. When I or he hits the hard times, who do we get to lean on? Let me tell you, it can suck! When we're kids, we can run to Mommy... but we get that grown out of us rather quickly.

you just have to believe what YOU believe YOU cannot speak for other CD'ers whether it be TG related or something else entirely nor speak for those who don't understand.

This is why I speak up... others do not speak for me. I do not purport to speak for others. I speak for me... and I feel that you and I could have this conversation over coffee and part ways both enlightened.

When I was a little girl, I felt like a boy. Not all the time, just sometimes. I would walk around shirtless in my underwear believing I was a boy when I was 6. The feelings of gender resentment happened in highschool. I hated having a menstrual cycle, I felt very insecure!

One of my best friends tells me the same thing about herself. She's quite the girly girl now, but there's a very masculine soul in her too. She can counsel men just as well as women. We get on well.

If God told me I had to chose between an less attractive woman or a gorgeous looking male, I'd choose to be the gorgeous male.

Out of a sense of practicality, not least of which is being able to pee standing up... I'd probably go with you on that. Again, that is. But I dunno for sure... I'd kind of like to be a mom if I could. Pity we aren't a hermaphroditic species!

I was told by more than one psychic I had been male before in a past life but in this life Im female. I truly believe that. But it does not mean it is a fact. So we could talk all we want as we are, whether it be inbetween, TG, Pan, vite, typ male or female. We'll never be able to prove we've figured it out.

No, we couldn't prove it, that's true. But ya know? Reincarnation is, to me, the best sounding theory as to why there's gender weirdness! It's like the soul is saying, "gee, I didn't plan on having one of these this time round! WTF? Can I re-spawn?" It would explain some other random things, like knowing things one has no reason to know. And how children can look so much like their parents, but think, act, and behave so differently.

Im not in resentment, fighting with myself on what I should have been anymore. I got over myself! Like you, I like what I like, who I like, I think the difference is, I love playing my actual gender role, though I'm no high maintanence girly girl, Im somewhere inbetween. And if I were male, Id imagine Id love to play the male role as well, not being at all macho, just a dude who loves the ladies and perhaps find men attractive.

(This paragraph is what tells me you really do get it!)

Having figured out your own stuff is a good way to become persona non grata here, it seems. You imagine, you dream... but you live in the real world.

And I love your last sentence there! That says so much of how I feel, too. Now that I'm over denying my bisexual nature, that is. Accepting that about myself was like going from Atlas holding up the world of pain, to chilling on a beach drinking umbrella drinks.

Thank you for sharing with us what you've shared so far, and I hope you'll stick around and chat. I, for one, welcome your perspective.

[❇ Abby ❇]

BTW, I'm not talking about TG's. I know its only a percentage and the spectrum is broad. I'm talking about the in betweens and those who claim to be straight.

Um I have to say something to this. TG's are not automaticly gay or bisexual. At one point in my life I was confused but from experience I can say without a shadow of doubt I am attracted to women! I don't claim to be straight, I am straight.

Are you sure about that? That's like me saying hypothetically, what do you know, you are not a biological woman. You have no idea what its like as a genetic woman fulfilling the wife role, how this hampers the family dynamic, my perspective of my husband, feeling insecure that he will won't pull his weight and be the head of household like we need because hes too hung up on his desires to CD and. unfortunately, we are not equals (biologically speaking). Its only natural for a wife to feel secure with a man who is sure of himself, honest, and fulfilling his husbandly duties. We are the weaker sex, so no need to be macho, but please, stay masculine, we need that strength. Its just how most women are biologically wired. We feel safe and secure with a masculine man.

That seems like a very "Stepford Wives" view of marriage and family life. The rate of single parent families is higher than ever before. Partnerships in my experience is two people, equally working together towards a common goal. Is the traditional female role still alive in the post feminist world?

I could go on saying one doesn't know what they are talking about when claiming they are female inside, while male on the outside. How can one prove with tests they are female while their genetics gave them the opposite sex as a gender?

Continuing to also say like many wives have about their partners, that they would never be female, therefore, not know what it is like to be one. How on earth could one identify themselves as such in any way when they are already male?

I could go on saying you can't possibly understand because you are female outside and female inside.

Gender dysphoria is a condition in which a person feels that there is a mismatch between their biological sex and their gender identity.
Biological sex is assigned at birth, depending on the appearance of the infant. Gender identity is the gender that a person “identifies” with, or feels themselves to be.

This mismatch can cause feelings of discomfort that are called gender dysphoria. Gender dysphoria is a recognised condition, for which treatment is sometimes appropriate. It is not a mental illness.

There are strict criteria for diagnosing gender dysphoria, these are different for children and adults. However, the criteria are based on the assumption that gender dysphoria is a purely psychiatric condition (relating to the mind), which is now increasingly thought to be a misconception.

For this reason, and due to the fact that gender dysphoria is so complex, specialists tend to make a diagnosis based on each individual, rather than just on the criteria.

Denita

[❇ Abby ❇]

How can one prove with tests they are female while their genetics gave them the opposite sex as a gender?

Can't be done. It's all subjective. We've discussed the so-called "gender tests" here in other threads... they are all built on asking vague and subjective questions of the taker. That is to say, there is nothing definitive in the way we might test blood for diabetes, or identify a viral pathogen.

However, to be fair, that is not the case with intersex conditions, which are chromosomal in nature. These are physical differences, and repeatably testable. It is also true that many 'transgender' people may simply be intersex and not be aware of it.

That isn't to dismiss the feelings people may have... it's just important to remember that feelings are not an accurate measure of anything but one's feelings.

Just because you don't believe in the validity of gender tests does not mean they are invalid. They have there place and use.

[SarahSchilling]

You know what I love? People who think that because their (seemingly minor) personal gender issues were easily solved, that it has to be the same for everyone else. That other people just aren't strong enough, or that they aren't "living in reality".

It's basically the opposite of empathy, but instead of trying to put yourself in someone else's shoes, you try to cram others into yours....and then act like there is something wrong with them when they don't fit.

There is no point in arguing with people like this, because they've "been through it themselves", so they know all about what others are going through. So, do yourselves a favor and don't bother.

I did enjoy the part where MissC decided to criticize Clara's and Sammie's responses as being combative. The hypocrisy was tangible, and I literally laughed out loud. Thanks for that.

[TibetanPrincess]

@SarahSchilling
Live as who you are and don't let the opinions of others trying to figure some of it out bother you. Of course its complex. But I know more than you think and that's on a spiritual level that is to me, far more clear than any test that can tell you what you are today.



@MissC

Thank you for your support. I feel like some get the aggression and defensively attack. This is just an opinion of what I see. I don't have a degree in this science, so I don't know why some take it too seriously. I'm just a woman exposed to so much human behavior, it makes me sick to my stomach.