[GoneGirl]

I've been wondering about other people's experience regarding shifting gender identity, particularly since starting NBE.

I don't know if gender identity (an internal sense of identifying with either the male or the female sex) is fixed or not. After 7 months of doing NBE, I'm coming to the conclusion that it is not fixed.

Then, again, maybe it is fixed subconsciously, but not fixed at a conscious level. Maybe my conscious feeling or understanding of my gender-split personality is tied to an ongoing process of discovery. I mean, for most of my life I've identified consciously as a male. The idea that people, including myself, have both a male and female sides sounded plausible in the abstract, but I couldn't relate to it directly in my own life. My dabbling in crossdressing and enjoying fantasies of growing breasts was, to me, a sexual fetish, not a reflection of who I was gender-wise.

When first I discovered that I was a crossdreamer (a crossdreamer is a gender-variant person who is aroused by fantasies of being or becoming the opposite sex), and first came out to my wife about my nature, I told her that my gender identity was 70% male and 30% female. Today, I would update that to closer to 50/50. Was it always 50/50 and I simply wasn't aware of it, or has NBE, and the effects of estrogen, caused the shift?

If the latter, wonder if I should expect a further shifting of my gender identity. Could I reach the point where my female side begins to dominate?

All thoughts and points of view are welcome.

Clara

[Heather-H]

I've been wondering about other people's experience regarding shifting gender identity, particularly since starting NBE.

I don't know if gender identity (an internal sense of identifying with either the male or the female sex) is fixed or not. After 7 months of doing NBE, I'm coming to the conclusion that it is not fixed.

Then, again, maybe it is fixed subconsciously, but not fixed at a conscious level. Maybe my conscious feeling or understanding of my gender-split personality is tied to an ongoing process of discovery. I mean, for most of my life I've identified consciously as a male. The idea that people, including myself, have both a male and female sides sounded plausible in the abstract, but I couldn't relate to it directly in my own life. My dabbling in crossdressing and enjoying fantasies of growing breasts was, to me, a sexual fetish, not a reflection of who I was gender-wise.

When first I discovered that I was a crossdreamer (a crossdreamer is a gender-variant person who is aroused by fantasies of being or becoming the opposite sex), and first came out to my wife about my nature, I told her that my gender identity was 70% male and 30% female. Today, I would update that to closer to 50/50. Was it always 50/50 and I simply wasn't aware of it, or has NBE, and the effects of estrogen, caused the shift?

If the latter, wonder if I should expect a further shifting of my gender identity. Could I reach the point where my female side begins to dominate?

All thoughts and points of view are welcome.

Clara

Clara, you are always a wise thinker, this thread is no exception. My doctor asked me if I considered myself as being totally female. My honest answer was not 100% of the time. If the scale range was 100% male to 100% female with zero inbetween then I sit between 30-70 on the female side mostly. I do shift to the left at zero when I'm pushed to do male things.

I do think the PM has a lot to do with this shift and certainly brings about more emotion and a greater female perspective. This is something my wife is worried about as she thinks I am always pushing the boundaries when infact it is happening quite naturally.

I keep saying to her that I cannot change who I am but I will always keep in mind our relationship.

Clara, you are such a wonderful human being and a real darling to boot !

I am so delighted you asked the question and long to find out what other girls report.
I sincerely think NBE does not change your gender identity per say but enhances what is already there and for some (myself included) clarifies what you have been struggling to come to terms with.

Your dear friend
Heather X

[undecided]

I've been wondering about other people's experience regarding shifting gender identity, particularly since starting NBE.

I don't know if gender identity (an internal sense of identifying with either the male or the female sex) is fixed or not. After 7 months of doing NBE, I'm coming to the conclusion that it is not fixed.

Then, again, maybe it is fixed subconsciously, but not fixed at a conscious level. Maybe my conscious feeling or understanding of my gender-split personality is tied to an ongoing process of discovery. I mean, for most of my life I've identified consciously as a male. The idea that people, including myself, have both a male and female sides sounded plausible in the abstract, but I couldn't relate to it directly in my own life. My dabbling in crossdressing and enjoying fantasies of growing breasts was, to me, a sexual fetish, not a reflection of who I was gender-wise.

When first I discovered that I was a crossdreamer (a crossdreamer is a gender-variant person who is aroused by fantasies of being or becoming the opposite sex), and first came out to my wife about my nature, I told her that my gender identity was 70% male and 30% female. Today, I would update that to closer to 50/50. Was it always 50/50 and I simply wasn't aware of it, or has NBE, and the effects of estrogen, caused the shift?

If the latter, wonder if I should expect a further shifting of my gender identity. Could I reach the point where my female side begins to dominate?

All thoughts and points of view are welcome.

Clara

Wow, thats a very interesting and thought provoking question.

If you had asked my this when I was younger, crying in the pillow, praying I would wake up a girl. The answer would have been 100% female.

Now, after a lifetime of exposure T, and perusing male orientated activities, providing for and raising a family that question is a lot harder.

Of course, the female voice has always been there, talking me into cross dressing in private whenever I had the chance, just to keep her quite. So during the last 30 years I would say 80% male, 20% female.

Lately, as my natural T levels have started to drop her voice is starting to get stronger, I don't expect NBE is going to make her any quieter either. I would say right now I am at @ 70% male, 30% female.

I doubt I will ever feel the 100% I felt when I was much younger, but thats probably more to do with no matter what, I still have a family to support, and I still have to project as a male to the outside world. But I do strongly suspect I will see 50/50.

So to your original question, I suspect NBE is making your inner female voice stronger, but it was only going to get stronger anyway.

It has crossed my mind, it would be cheaper to take a supplement to raise my T, and lower my E. That would make her voice a whole lot quieter, but deep down I know thats not who I really am.

[GoneGirl]

It has crossed my mind, it would be cheaper to take a supplement to raise my T, and lower my E. That would make her voice a whole lot quieter, but deep down I know thats not who I really am.

Janet, please read this paper by Dr. Anne Vitale about testosterone toxicity. Psychiatrists once thought that gender dysphoria could be treated my adding T to the patient's system. Turns out that makes the GD worse. Adding E is what leads to relief from gender dysphoria.

Testosterone Toxicity Implicated in Male-To-Female Transsexuals?

Clara

[interbingung]

The shifting is probably cause by how much you already mentally or emotially invested in gender identity. My trans feeling is come from feminization fetish as well that develop later into gender "dysphoria" due to lots of indulging in feminization fantasy, crossdressing, transgender fiction, forum etc. Honestly I never identify as female but the fetish is just too strong.

[Samantha Rogers]

Clara, this is an interesting question. I am not certain if the pursuit of NBE or HRT is a causal factor in developing identity change but I feel in may be a contributing factor in accelerating a process already increasing in some of us as we age.
The denial of the feminine "voice", as has been noted many times, occurs in a lot of bio males with GID issues during prime years (20-45), as they attempt to prove themselves "normal" ny raising families. Age brings the situation where kids leave home, the natualt T levels begin to decrease and E starts to rise, and the individual begins to realize that the issue is noy going to go away, is in fact getting stronger, and ltime is running out to seek authenticity.
The pursuit of NBE or HRT becomes a part of the exploration of this long denied identity and in the process accelerates the entire affair. But I do not believe it is, in itself, a causal factor, anymore than are the acts of dressing, appearing in public dressed, or even having ones ears pierced...these are all factors, but not causes.
Of course, altering ones hormonal system is bound to be a much stronger accelerator than strapping on a pair of cute heels...tee hee.
I think I am now approaching something like a 60-40 split (male/female), but it fluctuates considerabling according to mood and circumstance. When dressed and on anouting, there is more like a 10-90 split going on, with the male virtually invisible (to me...sigh). On the other hand, in other situations the reverse is true. Taking an average across the board, I would guess the balance wouldbe 60-40 as I said.

[undecided]

It has crossed my mind, it would be cheaper to take a supplement to raise my T, and lower my E. That would make her voice a whole lot quieter, but deep down I know thats not who I really am.

Janet, please read this paper by Dr. Anne Vitale about testosterone toxicity. Psychiatrists once thought that gender dysphoria could be treated my adding T to the patient's system. Turns out that makes the GD worse. Adding E is what leads to relief from gender dysphoria.

Testosterone Toxicity Implicated in Male-To-Female Transsexuals?

Clara

Thanks again Clara,
Sometimes I can read some thing but not grasp it entirely. I assumed some of the studies I had read were talking of younger ( under 20 years old ) transsexuals, not older crossdreamers like ourselves.

Is it also possible that excess testosterone is being converted to estrogen, and latching on to the estrogen receptors in the brain ?

This is what I was thinking may quieten her down.

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[GoneGirl]

I'm struggling to come to an understanding of what it really means to have a split gender identity. Most of us I think who are born this way, tend to live at one end of the gender spectrum or the other due to the expectations and conditioning that we experience growing up.

I just finished reading "Annabel" by Kathleen Winter (thanks Annie for suggesting this book). It's about an intersexed child who was assigned to the male gender at birth, but who had a strong female gender identity. His father's attempts to raise him as a normal son were a source of major frustration for him and his son. I found myself wondering if I were that child, would I have frustrated this father in the same way?

The conclusion I came to was maybe, to some extent, but certainly not to the same degree as the young boy in the novel. I was able to suppress overt female expression very well, even as I allowed my female personality, likes and dislikes, to mingle and merge with my assigned gender role. I chose to live as a male in every way the I was capable of, but if I had been declared a girl at birth, could I just as well have chosen to live my life as a female, everything else being the same? If the answer to that question is 'yes', then I would have to conclude that my gender split is very near 50/50.

Somehow I think I could have grown up as a girl just fine. Probably a bit of a tomboy, but a female none the less. Would I have been happier growing up as a girl? Probably not, but I don't think I would have been unhappy either.

At this late stage of my life, the female side of me is crying out for long denied attention. I'm confident that my crossdressing and attempts to feminize my appearance are not a sexual fetish. It's not a source of sexual arousal. I do not feel shame or guilt about allowing myself feminine expression, but I am concerned for how 'coming out' would affect my relationship with friends and family. I'm not gender dysphoric, so I don't need to transition to life as a woman. But I can't say with certainty that it will not happen, simply because I'm still not at a stable point in my transition.

My gender identity may have been fixed at birth, but my gender expression is not fixed. It is developing rather rapidly since I started NBE. That should raise some yellow flags to anyone who is engaged or thinking about becoming engaged in this pursuit. As my mama used to say, "Don't dive head first into unknown waters!"

Am I sorry that I found this sight and am on this path? No. It's working out for me as best I can determine. It feels right as I enter my 8th month. I just wonder where I'll be a year from now, and 5 years from now. Time alone will tell.

Clara

[AnnieBL]

I'm struggling to come to an understanding of what it really means to have a split gender identity. Most of us I think who are born this way, tend to live at one end of the gender spectrum or the other due to the expectations and conditioning that we experience growing up.

I just finished reading "Annabel" by Kathleen Winter (thanks Annie for suggesting this book). It's about an intersexed child who was assigned to the male gender at birth, but who had a strong female gender identity. His father's attempts to raise him as a normal son were a source of major frustration for him and his son. I found myself wondering if I were that child, would I have frustrated this father in the same way?

The conclusion I came to was maybe, to some extent, but certainly not to the same degree as the young boy in the novel. I was able to suppress overt female expression very well, even as I allowed my female personality, likes and dislikes, to mingle and merge with my assigned gender role. I chose to live as a male in every way the I was capable of, but if I had been declared a girl at birth, could I just as well have chosen to live my life as a female, everything else being the same? If the answer to that question is 'yes', then I would have to conclude that my gender split is very near 50/50.

Somehow I think I could have grown up as a girl just fine. Probably a bit of a tomboy, but a female none the less. Would I have been happier growing up as a girl? Probably not, but I don't think I would have been unhappy either.

At this late stage of my life, the female side of me is crying out for long denied attention. I'm confident that my crossdressing and attempts to feminize my appearance are not a sexual fetish. It's not a source of sexual arousal. I do not feel shame or guilt about allowing myself feminine expression, but I am concerned for how 'coming out' would affect my relationship with friends and family. I'm not gender dysphoric, so I don't need to transition to life as a woman. But I can't say with certainty that it will not happen, simply because I'm still not at a stable point in my transition.

My gender identity may have been fixed at birth, but my gender expression is not fixed. It is developing rather rapidly since I started NBE. That should raise some yellow flags to anyone who is engaged or thinking about becoming engaged in this pursuit. As my mama used to say, "Don't dive head first into unknown waters!"

Am I sorry that I found this sight and am on this path? No. It's working out for me as best I can determine. It feels right as I enter my 8th month. I just wonder where I'll be a year from now, and 5 years from now. Time alone will tell.

Clara

Thank you Clara for this thread, and thank you everyone else who has contributed. I would have posted sooner, but I have had my own preoccupations the last few days, the resolution of some of which may have some relevance to your question.

My own take is that not only is gender a spectrum, but it is not merely a linear spectrum but at least a two dimensional spectrum such that while those at the outer ends of the spectrum have a gender which is pretty much fixed, everyone in between has their own personal spectrum, which is widest for those in the middle, thus accommodating the variable gender proportions that you and the other contributors have reported. For myself, I have tended to the view that I was born with a brain that was not strongly gendered, and thus not only uncomfortable with being forced into a male behavioral box, but probably would also have been just as uncomfortable if I had been born genetically female but forced into a female box.. I saw my male persona as being hormone driven rather than brain driven, and so as the hormonal drive diminished so did my male gender characteristics, resulting in a 'second dimension' gender shift. I never managed to get quite clear in my mind why I had such an intense interest in what it feels like to be female (in the absence of sublimating factors). The events of the past few days have begun to make wonder whether in fact I do have a female persona which has been so deeply repressed, even after my full realization that I have gender issues, that she is only now beginning to emerge. I don't know what this would do to my percentages in the second gender dimension.

While wayne/Annabel's dysphoria in the book had passages to which I could relate to, but of course I,not intersex so there's awhole extra dimension. I was very impressed by her her humanity in developing her other main charac, and her descriptions of the Labrador environment and society.

[Lenneth]

Janet, please read this paper by Dr. Anne Vitale about testosterone toxicity. Psychiatrists once thought that gender dysphoria could be treated my adding T to the patient's system. Turns out that makes the GD worse. Adding E is what leads to relief from gender dysphoria.

Testosterone Toxicity Implicated in Male-To-Female Transsexuals?

Clara

exactly what I consider it to be, and one way to explain it to others is that we react to T the same as someone with a severe allergy to something.

I'm struggling to come to an understanding of what it really means to have a split gender identity. Most of us I think who are born this way, tend to live at one end of the gender spectrum or the other due to the expectations and conditioning that we experience growing up.

I just finished reading "Annabel" by Kathleen Winter (thanks Annie for suggesting this book). It's about an intersexed child who was assigned to the male gender at birth, but who had a strong female gender identity. His father's attempts to raise him as a normal son were a source of major frustration for him and his son. I found myself wondering if I were that child, would I have frustrated this father in the same way?

The conclusion I came to was maybe, to some extent, but certainly not to the same degree as the young boy in the novel. I was able to suppress overt female expression very well, even as I allowed my female personality, likes and dislikes, to mingle and merge with my assigned gender role. I chose to live as a male in every way the I was capable of, but if I had been declared a girl at birth, could I just as well have chosen to live my life as a female, everything else being the same? If the answer to that question is 'yes', then I would have to conclude that my gender split is very near 50/50.

Somehow I think I could have grown up as a girl just fine. Probably a bit of a tomboy, but a female none the less. Would I have been happier growing up as a girl? Probably not, but I don't think I would have been unhappy either.

At this late stage of my life, the female side of me is crying out for long denied attention. I'm confident that my crossdressing and attempts to feminize my appearance are not a sexual fetish. It's not a source of sexual arousal. I do not feel shame or guilt about allowing myself feminine expression, but I am concerned for how 'coming out' would affect my relationship with friends and family. I'm not gender dysphoric, so I don't need to transition to life as a woman. But I can't say with certainty that it will not happen, simply because I'm still not at a stable point in my transition.

My gender identity may have been fixed at birth, but my gender expression is not fixed. It is developing rather rapidly since I started NBE. That should raise some yellow flags to anyone who is engaged or thinking about becoming engaged in this pursuit. As my mama used to say, "Don't dive head first into unknown waters!"

Am I sorry that I found this sight and am on this path? No. It's working out for me as best I can determine. It feels right as I enter my 8th month. I just wonder where I'll be a year from now, and 5 years from now. Time alone will tell.

Clara

interesting story, i'll need to get that book.