[Danielle14]

I'm new to the forums and trying to educate myself on the various options for NBE for a male.

Bovine Ovary is particularly interesting. But it almost seems too good to be true. Transfemme seems to have spent a lot on keyword advertising so it's tough to search online and not read a lot about their products. But in the end, the "pitch" is that BO (be that from Swanson, Transfemme/BB, etc) causes aromatization which ultimately changes a male hormone balance to that of a genetic female. Dosage and timing issues aside, is that a factual statement; does that really happen?

I'm also reading a lot about other programs (PM, for example). But the permanent change of hormone balance via aromatization is really interesting... if it true.

[flamesabers]

Hello,

I would say pm, BO and HRT are the top three items successfully used in a NBE regime for a bio-male. If you want to grow breasts, I say take your pick and go from there.

As for the validity of aromatization, my answer would be yes. I think the details can be found elsewhere on this forum. I think it's good to have a skeptical mind before trying out a particular regime. However, short of trying BO yourself, what kind of hard evidence are you looking for to prove the validity of aromatization ?

[Danielle14]

Hello,

I would say pm, BO and HRT are the top three items successfully used in a NBE regime for a bio-male. If you want to grow breasts, I say take your pick and go from there.

As for the validity of aromatization, my answer would be yes. I think the details can be found elsewhere on this forum. I think it's good to have a skeptical mind before trying out a particular regime. However, short of trying BO yourself, what kind of hard evidence are you looking for to prove the validity of aromatization ?

Thanks flamesabers. I guess my question isn't really about hard evidence more than it is about knowledge (which I don't have enough of yet). There are strong claims about BO - particularly on the Transfemme/BB site - about the permanent change to the male's hormone balance. The idea of that is intriguing to me as I am as interested in the other effects of having the long-term (permanent) hormonal balance of a female as I am about growing breasts. So if BO does really do that, then I think I would head down that path.

[flamesabers]

My advice would be then check out the pictures and posts of those who have tried BO for a decent amount of time. Off the top of my head, Emma is one member who has used BO. I think Patti is another. Unfortunately, neither of them have been posting regularly here as of late.

[cheapskate9999]

I have wondered about that myself. There seems to be a dearth of solid information regarding BO so you have to kind of dig and dig using different search terms to come to some kind of understanding. From what I have been able to gather BO is not a hormone per se but a molecule that reacts in the bloodstream with the pituitary to induce the secretion of FSH and LH. it would stand to reason if the aromatization did not exist that these hormones being unisex would ramp up production of testosterone and DHT which would have the exact opposite affect of what we are looking to obtain.

My question would be more along the lines of how much ramping up the dose has an effect on the outcome. I tried to start with 4 swanson twice daily and found it to be clogging up the plumbing so to speak so lowered the dosage which hasn't really done much to alleviate it.

Still much reading to do but articles are really hard to come by.

[Lotus]

I have wondered about that myself. There seems to be a dearth of solid information regarding BO so you have to kind of dig and dig using different search terms to come to some kind of understanding. From what I have been able to gather BO is not a hormone per se but a molecule that reacts in the bloodstream with the pituitary to induce the secretion of FSH and LH. it would stand to reason if the aromatization did not exist that these hormones being unisex would ramp up production of testosterone and DHT which would have the exact opposite affect of what we are looking to obtain.

My question would be more along the lines of how much ramping up the dose has an effect on the outcome. I tried to start with 4 swanson twice daily and found it to be clogging up the plumbing so to speak so lowered the dosage which hasn't really done much to alleviate it.

Still much reading to do but articles are really hard to come by.

Hi cheapskate and Tabitha,

Amoratase does exist and we have threads dedicated specifically on the topic here in BN, even 5 alpha reductase gets converted to DHT by way of aromatase.

FAQ-Aromatase for NBE
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=19581

Aromatase

• There's an enzyme in the bodies of both men and women called aromatase. Its primary action is to produce female sex hormones, or estrogens. It produces them from male sex hormones (androgens) such as testosterone and their precursors.
  

• Aromatase also converts androstenedione (a sex hormone precursor) to the female hormone estrone, another estrogen, although weaker than estradiol.
  

• If you increase the activity of aromatase, you can increase levels of female sex hormones (estradiol, estrone).
  

• If you decrease the activity of aromatase, you can decrease levels of female sex hormones, while increasing relative levels of male sex hormones, e.g. testosterone.
  

• Men's bodies normally contain some level of estrogens, in addition to testosterone and their kind. Likewise, women's bodies contain some level of male androgens including testosterone.
  

• The ratio of male-to-female hormones contributes to our masculinity or femininity. Aromatase is one chemical that can tweak that ratio. It operates the same in both men and women, although an array of compounds can affect its activity.
  

________________________________________________________________

Testosterone-has two metabolites that pose potential problems for aging males and also for bodybuilders and athletes. One is estradiol (testosterone is converted to estradiol by the enzyme aromatase) and the other is dihydrotestosterone (DHT) (testosterone is converted to DHT by the enzyme 5-alpha reductase). As men age, there is a dramatic decrease in testosterone production, but without a corresponding decrease in the production of estradiol and DHT. Even though testosterone levels have plummeted, the aromatization of testosterone to estradiol is maintained, or even accelerated, and more testosterone is also being aromatized in fatty tissues. This creates excess levels of estradiol and, as a consequence, a blood level ratio of testosterone to estradiol that continues to decline, tipping the scale in balance of an estradiol-dominant environment.

I've done a couple of cycles of BO, had some side effects from my experience, PattiJT has a thread about BO, Abi too (resident science geek). Btw, welcome both of you to BN to BN.

[MonikaT]

Aromatization is real, and it is a real concern for aging males whose T is low. It can be the reason why one's T level is low. It can also be a concern should one need T supplementation. However, I find the Transfemme/BB claims to be suspect. They are the only source of that info online from what I can tell. I don't know if the intent is to scare people away or to get people to commit. I would love to find both corroborating evidence of their claim that BO makes men permanently into females hormonally, but also find out what this reversal pill they used to sell contained.

[cheapskate9999]

Aromatization is real, and it is a real concern for aging males whose T is low. It can be the reason why one's T level is low. It can also be a concern should one need T supplementation. However, I find the Transfemme/BB claims to be suspect. They are the only source of that info online from what I can tell. I don't know if the intent is to scare people away or to get people to commit. I would love to find both corroborating evidence of their claim that BO makes men permanently into females hormonally, but also find out what this reversal pill they used to sell contained.

I am not a medical professional but logic would dictate if they DID have a pill once upon a time that would reverse the process that their claim of permanent hormonal changes might be a bit on the suspect side. I have seen claims though on other sites which escape me right now that the hormonal changes brought about by BO continue after the consumption of BO has ended but they don't say how long or even imply that the continuation is even close to permanent.

Hard to say if there is such a thing as brain rewiring though. Would be a fascinating case study should anybody decide to put the claim to the test.....any volunteers??

[Candace]

I think US20050048129 is their patent application, and I can see why it has never been granted. There are no examples, data, reduction to practice, mechanistic studies etc.

So how do people think the permanent effect works? Is there an epigenetic change (say, in DNA methylation or histone acetylation) that increases aromatase expression in the testes? Perhaps aromatase promoter II (the promoter that works in the gonads) gets upregulated?

[tanysquirrel]

well i suppose i can assure you i will give you first hand 'scientific' results/data to chew on. my longterm goal is to be on 'raw female' for at least 7 month(one month longer than estimated deadline to stop). i have already noticed some changes in physiology and emotional status. all updates are being made in the raw female thread i started. i vow sincerity and truth in my observations as i would like to prove/disprove inquiries regarding the validity of claims firsthand.....guess i am a guinea-pig squirrel.

to note; i was on pm until last week until my raw female came in .i have discontinued the pm until this trial is over as i dont want to interfere with process of aromatization of the "t" in my body.

current dosage is 8 pills daily (based on transfemme dosages in testimonials) currently day five(?) i did not actively record what actual day i started.