[SarahSchilling]

I sure miss the days when this forum was free of complete douchebag trolls.

If I start eviscerating your feeble rhetoric again, will you crawl back under your bridge for a month or so, like last time?(If so, I will gladly perform more community service...or is it an exorcism?)

I'm sure we could all use the break, yourself included, since very few here are intellectually capable of holding a conversation with your highness.

[Arielle]

I sure miss the days when this forum was free of complete douchebag trolls.

If I start eviscerating your feeble rhetoric again, will you crawl back under your bridge for a month or so, like last time?(If so, I will gladly perform more community service...or is it an exorcism?)

I'm sure we could all use the break, yourself included, since very few here are intellectually capable of holding a conversation with your highness.

Lol, well said if not a little harsh.

Being a nerd who found the internet very early I am not sure I am happy about the elitism, flames and name calling don't really work for me.

[Lenneth]

I sure miss the days when this forum was free of complete douchebag trolls.

If I start eviscerating your feeble rhetoric again, will you crawl back under your bridge for a month or so, like last time?(If so, I will gladly perform more community service...or is it an exorcism?)

I'm sure we could all use the break, yourself included, since very few here are intellectually capable of holding a conversation with your highness.

+1

Lol, well said if not a little harsh.

Being a nerd who found the internet very early I am not sure I am happy about the elitism, flames and name calling don't really work for me.

Been Using the net since the BBS's...

[Miranda-nata-est]

Dear Clara,

it is astonishing how quickly things can spiral out of all proportion.


'Dinnae Fash Yersel and Keep Yer Heid' is a Scottish phrase that comes to mind!!!


M x

[GoneGirl]

Dear Clara,

it is astonishing how quickly things can spiral out of all proportion.


'Dinnae Fash Yersel and Keep Yer Heid' is a Scottish phrase that comes to mind!!!


M x

Not totally astonishing. You may recall my opening post began:

"I'm probably opening up a can of worms by starting this thread......"

I went ahead, because sometimes we can become insulated from the reality of the world we face as transgenders. Always keep in mind that there are those who would prefer we didn't exist. Always be on guard.

Clara

[AnnieBL]

MissC,

In your original self-styled rant, as in a previous post, you asked for a logical response. How can you expect that when your own posts lack logic? They are text book examples of the undistributed middle. You use the OP's citation of an article (relying by the way on very old data from a time when attitudes and practice relating to transsexualism were very different, and which itself illogically postulates on the basis of that data that at least most SRS is still unjustified), as your own justification for a rant complaining against government funding of medical services for people's TS issues, whereas the source of funding is not I think even mentioned by the OP nor is the propriety of government funding, although such funding is mentioned in passing, any actual part of the thesis of the article. I do think that you should use your own threads and not other peoples' as vehicles for expression of forceful opinions or rants on subjects without logical connection to those of the threads which you hijack.

[flamesabers]

Miss C,

I'm not sure what to say about your self-prophesy about your posts provoking the wraith of some of this forum's members.

Being a nerd who found the internet very early I am not sure I am happy about the elitism, flames and name calling don't really work for me.

I don't like how my name is used in this context.

[GoneGirl]

I opened to the editorial page of the WSJ this morning and read some responses to Paul McHugh's anti-transgender op-ed piece which I included in post #1 of this thread. There was one letter of support and three opposed. I thought some of you would be interested in the responses so I've included them below: (Note: I deleted the names of the respondents for obvious reasons.)

Views About Transgendered That Are Stuck in the Past

In response to Paul McHugh's "Transgender Sur­gery Isn't the Solution," op­ed, June 13:

Dr. McHugh writes that the transgendered are delusional, suffering from "a mental dis­order that deserves under­standing, treatment and pre­vention." He goes on to argue that sex-reassignment sur­gery has not been demon­strated to improve the mental well-being of the transgen­dered. Therefore, so Dr. McHugh argues, being trans­gendered is a mental disorder to be treated by psychiatrists.

I believe Dr. McHugh dis­misses the legitimate claims of the transgendered when he labels their condition a men­tal disorder -- and not a state of being. I wonder if he has considered the possibility that the mental well-being of the transgendered, both be­fore and after sex-reassign­ment surgery, has little to do with transgender identity as a primary mental disorder, but rather as a consequence of the ignorance and bigotry confronting transgendered people on a daily basis.

[Name Deleted] Arlington, Va.
------------------------

Finally, a psychiatrist steps forward to question the rise of "trans gender civil rights." Where are the voices of other medical professionals who should have been questioning and exposing this trend over the past several years?

Why would the medical community be so amenable to performing sex reassignment surgeries based on one's "sense" of being the wrong gender? With recent reports of very young children being encouraged to believe their bodies are misaligned with their identity, it has become increasingly alarming to see medical, educational and so­cial agencies simply fall in line, encouraging transgender restrooms in elementary schools and other such non­sense. Dr. McHugh's piece is long overdue. I hope it opens eyes.

[Name Deleted] Rochester, N.H.
------------------------

Dr. McHugh's attitude to­ward the transgendered doesn't seem to have ad­vanced since the work he mentions at Johns Hopkins Hospital in the 1970s. It isn't surprising that the patients treated had subsequent psy­cho-social adjustments when the psychiatrists treating them believe they have a mental disorder.

His suggestion that the transgendered can be talked out of being who they are with counter-message ther­apy and devoted parenting is also reminiscent of old opin­ions that dominating mothers cause homosexuality.

Not being in favor of spending tax dollars for reas­signment surgery may have merit. An assault on the transgendered is a disgrace.

[Name Deleted] Crystal Lake, Ill.
-------------------------

Dr. McHugh writes about the study at Johns Hopkins in the 1970s showing poor out­comes from transgender sur­geries, leading to Dr. McHugh shutting down Johns Hop­kins's transgender program in 1979, and the Department of Health and Human Services declaring transgender surgery experimental, and therefore not covered. Two weeks ago HHS reversed its 1981 deci­sion and removed transgen­der health exclusions from Medicare. Dr. McHugh ig­nores the work in transgen­der health in these last 30 years that led to this reversal by HHS.

Dr. McHugh also mischar­acterizes the treatment of gender-nonconforming chil­dren. As he states, most gen­der-nonconforming children do not identify as transgen­der in adulthood. However, those who receive puberty­-blocking drugs do not do so until puberty, when trans i­dentity is likely to persist. These drugs allow adoles­cents and their parents to work with doctors to achieve the best outcome. This ap­proach was demonstrated to be successful in research in the Netherlands before being adopted widely in the U.S.

The American Psychiatric Association and the World Professional Association for Transgender Health no longer view transgender identity as inherently pathological. Dr. McHugh's views are stuck in the past.

[Name Deleted], M.D.
Professor of Psychiatry University of California San Francisco
---------------------------

Clara

[kimdl93]

Dr McHugh chooses to substitute his prejudices for science. His argument is pure reductionism. It's entirely possible that many TS had bad outcomes...thirty years ago and even today, but that is not proof that TS is a disorder. One would expect that people who have struggled with their gender identity for a lifetime would have higher rates of depression and suicide throughout their life. Sex change operations may resolve the immediate dismorphic state, but the psychic wounds may never fully heel.

One might reasonably want to compare the outcomes for people who , lived a lifetime of GID with those growing up today in households that embrace and support their transgendered child.

And throwing in Chelsea Manning ...a cheap attempt to discredit by association.

Dr. McHugh can cling to his outmoded ideas, and he can claim authority, but the truth is that the rest of the world is moving on, leaving his flat earth view behind.

[Lenneth]

Dr McHugh chooses to substitute his prejudices for science. His argument is pure reductionism. It's entirely possible that many TS had bad outcomes...thirty years ago and even today, but that is not proof that TS is a disorder. One would expect that people who have struggled with their gender identity for a lifetime would have higher rates of depression and suicide throughout their life. Sex change operations may resolve the immediate dismorphic state, but the psychic wounds may never fully heel.

One might reasonably want to compare the outcomes for people who , lived a lifetime of GID with those growing up today in households that embrace and support their transgendered child.

And throwing in Chelsea Manning ...a cheap attempt to discredit by association.

Dr. McHugh can cling to his outmoded ideas, and he can claim authority, but the truth is that the rest of the world is moving on, leaving his flat earth view behind.

A most apt likeness, comparing McHugh to a "Flat Earther" Clinging to a old "popular belief" in-spite of a mountain of hard proof to the contrary.
(A Classic childish "I'm sticking my fingers in my ears and wearing a blindfold so I cant see or hear anything different than my own ideas" [whilst sticking their tongue out] mentality).

Sadly I have many Relatives who are similar....

I often wonder (likely in futility) when people like that will learn that what you could call "new understandings" of such things are not just pulled out of someone's backside...?

(Sorry if this seemed like a Rant but i'm having that kind of a day)