[Victsub]

I want to try taking anti androgen herbs. My goal is to reach castrate or female levels of T. I believe in some type of objective testing, rather then subjective observations to measure the results. I'd like to see what my baseline levels are before trying herbs & then do testing while I try different anti-T herbs. If they don't work after a reasonable (not just a few weeks or months, I know they take time) amount of time, I'll try synthetics. I don't want to get medical professionals involved & I don't have medical insurance anyways. I'm not going to try crazy doses, I'm going to start slow to let my body adjust.

Does anyone know if anti androgen herbs can reduce a healthy mid 40s guys T levels down to a females (adrenal only) level? I assume my levels are within normal range, as I still get full morning erections & they are easy to achieve other times. I've never tested my levels. I've been Vegan for 2+ years & dont drink, smoke, use drugs, etc. I'm not overweight either.

Has anyone used home test kits & compared them to lab results?

[MonikaT]

I'm not sure what to say about home test kits. They usually test levels in saliva. The alternative medicine practitioners who promote them claim they are more accurate than blood testing, but they also re-sell the kits on behalf of this or that lab, which tells me they get a cut of the action. Mainstream practitioners will tell you saliva can only tell if the hormone is present and blood is the only way to go if you want to know levels. I tend to trust blood over saliva.

You can get blood tests at your own expense without a doctor through the Life Extension Foundation (www.lef.org).

I am 50. A year ago, my total T was 385 and free T was 7.75 (I can't remember the units of measure). After about 6 months on spearmint and Chinese skullcap (both Swanson brand, 1 capsule of each, 4 times a day) plus 2000 mg of PM. My total T is now 235, and my free T is 1.5. I think it is fair to say herbs can do a lot. I have now discontinued both spearmint and skullcap because I can't handle the physical weakness any more, but take 3000 mg of PM. I can't quite tell, but I think I'm starting to get puffy nipples. I've been on PM about 16 months.

[GoneGirl]

I am 50. A year ago, my total T was 385 and free T was 7.75 (I can't remember the units of measure). After about 6 months on spearmint and Chinese skullcap (both Swanson brand, 1 capsule of each, 4 times a day) plus 2000 mg of PM. My total T is now 235, and my free T is 1.5. I think it is fair to say herbs can do a lot. I have now discontinued both spearmint and skullcap because I can't handle the physical weakness any more, but take 3000 mg of PM. I can't quite tell, but I think I'm starting to get puffy nipples. I've been on PM about 16 months.

I'm constantly being amazed the range of effect that these herbs have on people, Monika.

I'm quite a bit older than you at 67, but, apparently, am much more sensitive to PM than you. In just 4 months using only PM at an average dosage of only 1500 mg/day, my Total T dropped to 109 ng/dL. The normal male (reference) range is 250-1100 at this particular lab. I didn't have a baseline test, but in the past my total T has always been at the high end of normal, and there was no indication that it had significantly changed when I started NBE. You can see my breast growth from flat to A cup in my Feb 2014 progress update pictures.

In answer to the OP's question, I have no experience with these home kits, but if you go that route, stick with the same lab for subsequent tests. Comparing the results from two different labs can be very misleading.

Clara