[flamesabers]

Thank you everyone for your input. I really appreciate it.

Yes, I do get that people and forums change. I think it's the direction of change this forum is heading that I disagree with. I sometimes think the mainstream approach to NBE has changed from that of a daring pioneer to that of an academic scholar. For instance, I tried spearmint because I wanted to see whether an anti-androgen would help with maintaining brain rewiring while I was lowering my pm dosage. At the time, I don't think spearmint was being widely used in NBE regimes. However, I didn't like using saw palmetto and spearmint was a herb AbiDrew had some good experience with.

I don't want to sound like an anti-intellectual here, but I think the downside of putting too much emphasis on scientific details for NBE regimes is it detracts from personal experiences and the willingness to try something new and different. I know I'm biased here. My experience with NBE came about from learning from others and self-experimentation, as opposed to scientific papers.

It's hard to articulate why exactly, but I feel it would be best if I took a break and hibernate for a while so to speak.

[GoneGirl]

Hi Flame,
I can sympathize with your feelings about the technical aspects of NBE. It's not that I'm against learning about the underlying principles of the endocrine system and how herbal supplements affect it. Personally, I like to have an understanding of how things work. Remember AbiDrew? She was a storehouse of information about the underlying chemistry and pharmacology. We could draw on that knowledge as needed.

My difficulty is trying to piece together an understanding of these principles from the mountains of information that can be found on the web. Lotus, has done lots of the leg work searching for and gathering that information, but I find that it's hard to digest in present form. Maybe I'm just losing it...lol. What I could use is one of those black and yellow paperbacks: The Principles of NBE for Dummies.

Clara

[Karren]

I think the forum has expanded to include a wider swatch of the gender spectrum. I remember when the only transsexual poster was AbiDrew, now there are several. There's now more attention paid to gender identity issues, not just men who want breasts. At each evolutionary change there is a bit of turmoil that erupts -- the row over including talk about synthetics is a recent case in point. Yes, things have changed. Is that bad? That's for each to decide, but I think it's inevitable.

Clara

Bad.. all depends on why you came here... I typically come to places like this to talk to women about female things.... not to other guys! lol

[SarahSchilling]

just...nevermind.

[RobinMurphy]

I agree with what Flame is saying that the focus is changing from NBE and that we have members who said take PM alone and now they are on synthetics. Lotus is working his butt off with what he thinks works. Look I'm jealous of some of the progress that I have seen by members on synthetics. However I do not think that it is actually legal to order estrogen from overseas. So if the rest of the forum is not going to transition who is going to talk about NBE?

[GoneGirl]

I agree with what Flame is saying that the focus is changing from NBE and that we have members who said take PM alone and now they are on synthetics. Lotus is working his butt off with what he thinks works. Look I'm jealous of some of the progress that I have seen by members on synthetics. However I do not think that it is actually legal to order estrogen from overseas. So if the rest of the forum is not going to transition who is going to talk about NBE?

Yes, I'm one of the members who switched to synthetics. I still advocate taking just PM when starting out, though. There are good reasons for that. I switched to prescription meds after using herbs for 7 months with good results. My reason for making the switch wasn't to induce faster growth although that may happen. I felt it was time to continue my transition under the care of a physician who will monitor my hormone levels and watch for any unwelcome changes in my health status. I might have stayed with herbs, but, unfortunately, doctors are not trained in the ways of herbal HRT. No one is really.

As far as the legality of buying drugs from Canada or elsewhere, U.S. Customs' policy is currently not to intercept small quantities (3 months supply) of pharmaceuticals for personal use. The cost savings can be quite large, and a prescription is not required.

And I just want to remind people that we recently resolved the issue of whether this forum should embrace the discussion of prescription HRT by segregating those posts in a new sub-forum. Those not interested in synthetics can easily avoid reading the postings there. I suppose we could ban the discussion of synthetics the way other sites ban the discussion of herbs. I hope we never exercise that kind of censorship. Many of us that are using synthetics now still contribute daily to the discussion of herbal NBE.

Clara

[❇ Abby ❇]

What I don't understand is this.

This section on BreastNexus is titled Breast Growth For Biological Males.

So why is there any problem about synthetic hormones?

It's just another way to get results, but at the end of the day it's personal choice what path you follow.

Denita

[Samantha Rogers]

Enough.

[Pansy-Mae]

Flame, I totally agree with you, it HAS changed and IMO, not for the better.
I come here much less often than I used to do and post even less frequently, because I have so little in common, or even interest in most of the posts these days.

Let me be clear, I have absolutely no objection to those who want to go 'all the way' and I am fully in support of them, but again IMO, this forum is not the place for them, this is about NATURAL BREAST ENHANCEMENT, not Transitioning via Synthetic HRT. To discuss in depth the issues surrounding Transition, there are plenty of other 'net forums ( Susans and TSDIYForum are two that come to immediately to mind) and there is no need for them to hijack this one.

I am fully aware that men growing breasts is not generally considered 'natural', but for me it is the method that is natural, not the end result, and if the 'inbetweenies' theory is correct then even the desire could be considered natural.

I hope this doesn't offend anyone although I suspect it may, but that isn't my intention. Its just an expression of my frustration at a feeling of no longer belonging in a place I once considered a kind of home.

[The Annalyst]

Just my luck. I write out a post and of course my phone crashes making me want to be a lurker even more. I'll try to retype it but it will never be as eloquent as the first, I lost my stream of consciences.

I will post my view of the matter, and since I am a lurker more than a contributor to this forum you can take from it what you will. For a while I have been observing this forum, gleaning information that would help me with my own goals and everyone has been very helpful. I had noticed a trend of late and in the end the scenario I thought would play out did.

When I first found this forum I thought I had found a rare gemstone. A group of biological males who all want to grow breasts. We all had our reasons and they were all different. There seemed to be a sort of acceptance in what we were doing in not taking the traditional methods and that's what brought us together. "We're all on the untracked, unacceptable road. We have different end points but we're on it together." seemed to be the phrase the was the adhesive that bound us.

Slowly though there was a shift in the thinking. As members left and new members joined a new thought pattern seemed to emerge. There became more of a focus in the transitional aspects of NBE. It had always been there but now the focus was stronger. The phrase became more of a question, "Are you sure you want breasts? You can't get rid of them once you have them." to "NBE is serious" to "NBE is a form of HRT."

There is nothing wrong with warning people about the side effects of NBE but it cannot be what tears us apart. There seems to be a lot less tolerance for a male who wants to grow breasts and still present as a male. We just want breasts. We know we are playing with fire and we know that we can be burned. What wrong with seeing how close we can stick our hand before we feel pain?

Lately there has been a lot of comparison of NBE to HRT, and rightly so because two are very similar processes, but they are achieved with very different strengths. Comparing synthetic hormones to NBE herbs is like comparing a lighter and a flamethrower. You can be burned by both but the flamethrower is definitely more dangerous and should only be used in HRT.

I almost think that there should be two separate boards on this forum. On for those who wish to use NBE as a platform for transitioning and one for those that wish to still present as a male. It would solve the problem of having so many boards because the GI and the Other Appearance boards would be unnecessary in a NBE for M2F section. I would like to see it because it would allow males to feel more comfortable here, but I would also hate to see NBE cause the separation. We need a phrase to bind us together again. Can't we all just be happy that there are two more boobies in the world and not fret the details about if they are on a guy, a result of Gynecomastia, a little flat, or hairy? We aren't here to kid ourselves and we know what we want.

Boobs.