[Lotus]

ok, pulled the trigger and ordered a bottle of WP extract capsules (600mg per) should be here Wednesday.

have also been on a break from everything for the last 7 days.

Good luck Lenneth, I've added WP (or should I say tried) to most liquids I drink. Currently I think it combines well with green tea.

Green Tea Epigallocatechin-Green tea (camellia)-Reduce's the conversion of free testosterone into DHT and also raises SHBG (sex-hormone-binding-globulin).

There's a reason for the green tea and WP and it goes back to spanky's post (which I'll try to respond to soon).

[Lenneth]

ok, pulled the trigger and ordered a bottle of WP extract capsules (600mg per) should be here Wednesday.

have also been on a break from everything for the last 7 days.

Good luck Lenneth, I've added WP (or should I say tried) to most liquids I drink. Currently I think it combines well with green tea.

Green Tea Epigallocatechin-Green tea (camellia)-Reduce's the conversion of free testosterone into DHT and also raises SHBG (sex-hormone-binding-globulin).

There's a reason for the green tea and WP and it goes back to spanky's post (which I'll try to respond to soon).

any idea what dose I should take?

want to obliterate the DHT but also make the supply of WP last as long as possible, $24 per bottle of 60 caps isn't my idea of cheap & right now I have to mind all of the pennies. (moving drained my finances badly)

[Lotus]

ok, pulled the trigger and ordered a bottle of WP extract capsules (600mg per) should be here Wednesday.

have also been on a break from everything for the last 7 days.

Good luck Lenneth, I've added WP (or should I say tried) to most liquids I drink. Currently I think it combines well with green tea.

Green Tea Epigallocatechin-Green tea (camellia)-Reduce's the conversion of free testosterone into DHT and also raises SHBG (sex-hormone-binding-globulin).

There's a reason for the green tea and WP and it goes back to spanky's post (which I'll try to respond to soon).

any idea what dose I should take?

want to obliterate the DHT but also make the supply of WP last as long as possible, $24 per bottle of 60 caps isn't my idea of cheap & right now I have to mind all of the pennies. (moving drained my finances badly)

I'm not familiar with the capsules, but I'd still combine WP the with green tea. I seriously think you'll see a big difference if you stick with it. 60 capsules @ 2 per day = 30 day supply. Next time go for the extract it's a little cheaper. Who did you use to buy from?.

L

[Lenneth]

ok, pulled the trigger and ordered a bottle of WP extract capsules (600mg per) should be here Wednesday.

have also been on a break from everything for the last 7 days.

Good luck Lenneth, I've added WP (or should I say tried) to most liquids I drink. Currently I think it combines well with green tea.

Green Tea Epigallocatechin-Green tea (camellia)-Reduce's the conversion of free testosterone into DHT and also raises SHBG (sex-hormone-binding-globulin).

There's a reason for the green tea and WP and it goes back to spanky's post (which I'll try to respond to soon).

any idea what dose I should take?

want to obliterate the DHT but also make the supply of WP last as long as possible, $24 per bottle of 60 caps isn't my idea of cheap & right now I have to mind all of the pennies. (moving drained my finances badly)

I'm not familiar with the capsules, but I'd still combine WP the with green tea. I seriously think you'll see a big difference if you stick with it. 60 capsules @ 2 per day = 30 day supply. Next time go for the extract it's a little cheaper. Who did you use to buy from?.

L

Got it on Amazon, & the extract was the same price for only 4 oz...

What I Ordered

If you know someplace to get it for less, please let me know.

[Lotus]

Wow. My head swims. Or does the breast stroke.

Isn't it true that there are adverse health effect of high levels of DHT and estradiol? If so, are these not risk factors for the aromatase approach?

Inhibiting the enzyme 5 alpha reductase prevents the conversion to DHT, and the Aromatase enzyme converts free Testosterone to E2. Scientists are using the enzymes of 5-ar and aromatase as inhibitors to fight cancer.

Novel aromatase and 5 alpha-reductase inhibitors.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8043491

Risks and benefits of aromatase inhibitors in postmenopausal breast cancer
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10514021

• So the idea of using these enzymes for the benefit of breast growth isn't actually novel because your using them whether it's realized or not.
  

• Aromatase activity has not only been demonstrated in gonads and placenta but also in brain [6], fat tissue [7,8], muscle [9], hair [10], bone [11] and vascular tissue [12].
  

• Estradiol is the most potent estrogen produced in the body. It is synthesized from testosterone or estrone via aromatase or 17β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, respectively.
  

• The total estradiol production rate in the human male has been estimated to be 35-45 μg (0.130-0.165 μmol) per day, of which approximately 20% is directly produced by the testes [13,14]. Roughly 60% of circulating estradiol is derived from direct testicular secretion or from conversion of testicular androgens. The remaining fraction is derived from peripheral conversion of adrenal androgens [15].
  

• The mean estradiol plasma concentration in men is only about 1/200 of the mean plasma testosterone concentration [16] and is comparable to estradiol levels found in women in the early follicular phase of the menstrual cycle.
  

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3143915/

_________________________________________________

Testosterone can bind directly to androgen receptors (ARs) or can be aromatized to estradiol (E2), acting on estrogen receptors (ERs), or reduced to dihydrotestosterone (DHT), acting on ARs.

• These metabolites (E2 and DHT) play crucial roles in the organism, mediating many functions such as cognition, reproduction, feeding, muscle, blood and brain metabolism.
  

• Thus modulation of the enzymes 5-alpha reductase and aromatase has to be considered an important gateway to these functions. The former plays an important role in testosterone conversion to DHT in androgen-dependent tissue, the latter in T aromatization to E2.
  

Aromatase

• There's an enzyme in the bodies of both men and women called aromatase. Its primary action is to produce female sex hormones, or estrogens. It produces them from male sex hormones (androgens) such as testosterone and their precursors.
  

• Aromatase also converts androstenedione (a sex hormone precursor) to the female hormone estrone, another estrogen, although weaker than estradiol.
  

• If you increase the activity of aromatase, you can increase levels of female sex hormones (estradiol, estrone).
  

• If you decrease the activity of aromatase, you can decrease levels of female sex hormones, while increasing relative levels of male sex hormones, e.g. testosterone.
  

• Men's bodies normally contain some level of estrogens, in addition to testosterone and their kind. Likewise, women's bodies contain some level of male androgens including testosterone.
  

• The ratio of male-to-female hormones contributes to our masculinity or femininity. Aromatase is one chemical that can tweak that ratio. It operates the same in both men and women, although an array of compounds can affect its activity.
  

________________________________________________________________

Testosterone-has two metabolites that pose potential problems for aging males and also for bodybuilders and athletes. One is estradiol (testosterone is converted to estradiol by the enzyme aromatase) and the other is dihydrotestosterone (DHT) (testosterone is converted to DHT by the enzyme 5-alpha reductase). As men age, there is a dramatic decrease in testosterone production, but without a corresponding decrease in the production of estradiol and DHT. Even though testosterone levels have plummeted, the aromatization of testosterone to estradiol is maintained, or even accelerated, and more testosterone is also being aromatized in fatty tissues. This creates excess levels of estradiol and, as a consequence, a blood level ratio of testosterone to estradiol that continues to decline, tipping the scale in balance of an estradiol-dominant environment.

[rocketmelon]

Wow. My head swims. Or does the breast stroke.

Isn't it true that there are adverse health effect of high levels of DHT and estradiol? If so, are these not risk factors for the aromatase approach?

Inhibiting the enzyme 5 alpha reductase prevents the conversion to DHT, and the Aromatase enzyme converts free Testosterone to E2. Scientists are using the enzymes of 5-ar and aromatase as inhibitors to fight cancer.

Novel aromatase and 5 alpha-reductase inhibitors.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8043491

Risks and benefits of aromatase inhibitors in postmenopausal breast cancer
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10514021

• So the idea of using these enzymes for the benefit of breast growth isn't actually novel because your using them whether it's realized or not.
  

• Aromatase activity has not only been demonstrated in gonads and placenta but also in brain [6], fat tissue [7,8], muscle [9], hair [10], bone [11] and vascular tissue [12].
  

• Estradiol is the most potent estrogen produced in the body. It is synthesized from testosterone or estrone via aromatase or 17β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, respectively.
  

• The total estradiol production rate in the human male has been estimated to be 35-45 μg (0.130-0.165 μmol) per day, of which approximately 20% is directly produced by the testes [13,14]. Roughly 60% of circulating estradiol is derived from direct testicular secretion or from conversion of testicular androgens. The remaining fraction is derived from peripheral conversion of adrenal androgens [15].
  

• The mean estradiol plasma concentration in men is only about 1/200 of the mean plasma testosterone concentration [16] and is comparable to estradiol levels found in women in the early follicular phase of the menstrual cycle.
  

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3143915/

_________________________________________________

Testosterone can bind directly to androgen receptors (ARs) or can be aromatized to estradiol (E2), acting on estrogen receptors (ERs), or reduced to dihydrotestosterone (DHT), acting on ARs.

• These metabolites (E2 and DHT) play crucial roles in the organism, mediating many functions such as cognition, reproduction, feeding, muscle, blood and brain metabolism.
  

• Thus modulation of the enzymes 5-alpha reductase and aromatase has to be considered an important gateway to these functions. The former plays an important role in testosterone conversion to DHT in androgen-dependent tissue, the latter in T aromatization to E2.
  

Aromatase

• There's an enzyme in the bodies of both men and women called aromatase. Its primary action is to produce female sex hormones, or estrogens. It produces them from male sex hormones (androgens) such as testosterone and their precursors.
  

• Aromatase also converts androstenedione (a sex hormone precursor) to the female hormone estrone, another estrogen, although weaker than estradiol.
  

• If you increase the activity of aromatase, you can increase levels of female sex hormones (estradiol, estrone).
  

• If you decrease the activity of aromatase, you can decrease levels of female sex hormones, while increasing relative levels of male sex hormones, e.g. testosterone.
  

• Men's bodies normally contain some level of estrogens, in addition to testosterone and their kind. Likewise, women's bodies contain some level of male androgens including testosterone.
  

• The ratio of male-to-female hormones contributes to our masculinity or femininity. Aromatase is one chemical that can tweak that ratio. It operates the same in both men and women, although an array of compounds can affect its activity.
  

________________________________________________________________

Testosterone-has two metabolites that pose potential problems for aging males and also for bodybuilders and athletes. One is estradiol (testosterone is converted to estradiol by the enzyme aromatase) and the other is dihydrotestosterone (DHT) (testosterone is converted to DHT by the enzyme 5-alpha reductase). As men age, there is a dramatic decrease in testosterone production, but without a corresponding decrease in the production of estradiol and DHT. Even though testosterone levels have plummeted, the aromatization of testosterone to estradiol is maintained, or even accelerated, and more testosterone is also being aromatized in fatty tissues. This creates excess levels of estradiol and, as a consequence, a blood level ratio of testosterone to estradiol that continues to decline, tipping the scale in balance of an estradiol-dominant environment.

I really wanted to ask this !!! cause you duh expert ^_^
somebody on this forum...think it was bubblebra took T herbs to get converted to E ..she had really cool growth too !!!!!like think 7inch is in a year or something
I was wondering .......do you think that would be a good idea?
like if you took a small mg with white peony root? for example mucuna pruriens ....it's good for growth hormones ! .....more free T more estro?
more variety of estrogen from different sources ...like plant estrogen..and then plant T turned into real body E
I really wanted to know .......theres different types of estrogen..is the one created by T different ? .......I've heard also women take T sometimes to regulate their cycle .....do you think this is also a good way to keep in balance...or not a good idea ?


thanx =DD

[Dynseli]

you didn't ask me, but that sounds like a good idea. Possibly avoid it during ovulation, until it is known what that does to LH and FSH. At other times of the cycle, it may take trial and error to find the right ratio. Start off slowly. Add red reishi to counter any DHT that may be produced. If the effects start wearing down, cycle a different hormonal herb, or use massage rather than increase dosage.

[rocketmelon]

you didn't ask me, but that sounds like a good idea. Possibly avoid it during ovulation, until it is known what that does to LH and FSH. At other times of the cycle, it may take trial and error to find the right ratio. Start off slowly. Add red reishi to counter any DHT that may be produced. If the effects start wearing down, cycle a different hormonal herb, or use massage rather than increase dosage.

haha lovely11 HOW COULD I NOT aSK YOU =] ..especially cause your the expert with the cycle !!!!!!!! I was gonna mention it to you too =p on my program page...I was asking about receptors ! wasn't sure if to add in more questions or not !
believe me I have too many nbe questions xD I could ask you =3 lovelly

thank you lovely lovely11 ...red reishi thats the mushroom right? I should get some of that!!! right I don't take my temp but what days you think are the red days and green ..ovulation 14thish day but it different for everybody so maybe day 10-16 are the no T herb days =3
will it might be a good thing to try bubblebra got really good growth!

[rocketmelon]

you didn't ask me, but that sounds like a good idea. Possibly avoid it during ovulation, until it is known what that does to LH and FSH. At other times of the cycle, it may take trial and error to find the right ratio. Start off slowly. Add red reishi to counter any DHT that may be produced. If the effects start wearing down, cycle a different hormonal herb, or use massage rather than increase dosage.

okie I just got your message on my program page thanx

[Lotus]

Wow. My head swims. Or does the breast stroke.

Isn't it true that there are adverse health effect of high levels of DHT and estradiol? If so, are these not risk factors for the aromatase approach?

Inhibiting the enzyme 5 alpha reductase prevents the conversion to DHT, and the Aromatase enzyme converts free Testosterone to E2. Scientists are using the enzymes of 5-ar and aromatase as inhibitors to fight cancer.

Novel aromatase and 5 alpha-reductase inhibitors.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8043491

Risks and benefits of aromatase inhibitors in postmenopausal breast cancer
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10514021

• So the idea of using these enzymes for the benefit of breast growth isn't actually novel because your using them whether it's realized or not.
  

• Aromatase activity has not only been demonstrated in gonads and placenta but also in brain [6], fat tissue [7,8], muscle [9], hair [10], bone [11] and vascular tissue [12].
  

• Estradiol is the most potent estrogen produced in the body. It is synthesized from testosterone or estrone via aromatase or 17β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, respectively.
  

• The total estradiol production rate in the human male has been estimated to be 35-45 μg (0.130-0.165 μmol) per day, of which approximately 20% is directly produced by the testes [13,14]. Roughly 60% of circulating estradiol is derived from direct testicular secretion or from conversion of testicular androgens. The remaining fraction is derived from peripheral conversion of adrenal androgens [15].
  

• The mean estradiol plasma concentration in men is only about 1/200 of the mean plasma testosterone concentration [16] and is comparable to estradiol levels found in women in the early follicular phase of the menstrual cycle.
  

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3143915/

_________________________________________________

Testosterone can bind directly to androgen receptors (ARs) or can be aromatized to estradiol (E2), acting on estrogen receptors (ERs), or reduced to dihydrotestosterone (DHT), acting on ARs.

• These metabolites (E2 and DHT) play crucial roles in the organism, mediating many functions such as cognition, reproduction, feeding, muscle, blood and brain metabolism.
  

• Thus modulation of the enzymes 5-alpha reductase and aromatase has to be considered an important gateway to these functions. The former plays an important role in testosterone conversion to DHT in androgen-dependent tissue, the latter in T aromatization to E2.
  

Aromatase

• There's an enzyme in the bodies of both men and women called aromatase. Its primary action is to produce female sex hormones, or estrogens. It produces them from male sex hormones (androgens) such as testosterone and their precursors.
  

• Aromatase also converts androstenedione (a sex hormone precursor) to the female hormone estrone, another estrogen, although weaker than estradiol.
  

• If you increase the activity of aromatase, you can increase levels of female sex hormones (estradiol, estrone).
  

• If you decrease the activity of aromatase, you can decrease levels of female sex hormones, while increasing relative levels of male sex hormones, e.g. testosterone.
  

• Men's bodies normally contain some level of estrogens, in addition to testosterone and their kind. Likewise, women's bodies contain some level of male androgens including testosterone.
  

• The ratio of male-to-female hormones contributes to our masculinity or femininity. Aromatase is one chemical that can tweak that ratio. It operates the same in both men and women, although an array of compounds can affect its activity.
  

________________________________________________________________

Testosterone-has two metabolites that pose potential problems for aging males and also for bodybuilders and athletes. One is estradiol (testosterone is converted to estradiol by the enzyme aromatase) and the other is dihydrotestosterone (DHT) (testosterone is converted to DHT by the enzyme 5-alpha reductase). As men age, there is a dramatic decrease in testosterone production, but without a corresponding decrease in the production of estradiol and DHT. Even though testosterone levels have plummeted, the aromatization of testosterone to estradiol is maintained, or even accelerated, and more testosterone is also being aromatized in fatty tissues. This creates excess levels of estradiol and, as a consequence, a blood level ratio of testosterone to estradiol that continues to decline, tipping the scale in balance of an estradiol-dominant environment.

I really wanted to ask this !!! cause you duh expert ^_^
somebody on this forum...think it was bubblebra took T herbs to get converted to E ..she had really cool growth too !!!!!like think 7inch is in a year or something
I was wondering .......do you think that would be a good idea?
like if you took a small mg with white peony root? for example mucuna pruriens ....it's good for growth hormones ! .....more free T more estro?
more variety of estrogen from different sources ...like plant estrogen..and then plant T turned into real body E
I really wanted to know .......theres different types of estrogen..is the one created by T different ? .......I've heard also women take T sometimes to regulate their cycle .....do you think this is also a good way to keep in balance...or not a good idea ?


thanx =DD

Rocket, you can ask anybody a question on BN, period!.

Estradiol is 100x more potent at the receptor sites then Testosterone. Estrogen and testosterone are secreted in short bursts, pulses which vary from hour to hour and even minute to minute. Hormone release varies between night and day and from one stage of the menstrual cycle to another.

Studies show that T in women helps maintain muscle and bone and contributes to sex drive, or libido. There are also quality-of-life issues. If you give testosterone replacement to testosterone-deficient women, they often say they feel better, but they're not specific as to how.

I'm pretty sure women only produce .03 mg of T daily, however the types of E in men are E2 and E1, so of the 4 types (yes there's 4) it's the same as women. The only way to be sure is a silva test, and I'd make sure you find out what free T. If anything stopping DHT is still a priority for the girls too.

Good Question!