[Samantha Rogers]

Yes, I still do PC twice daily. About a year ago I had a hormone test done & my testosterone was high but said normal for my age (contradiction?). Estrogen & progesterone were low. I was on Eve's program at the time. I've been on PM for 8 mo. now. I used to weight train but not heavy, just to rev up my lean mass. I'll be on NBE 4 years this summer & I've had modest growth til the past few months.
Thanks again for sharing your wisdom.

Interesting, Lostacres, we have been involved in all this for approximately the same amount of time. I will also hit four years this summer. And I also have essentially stalled over the past couple of months, and maybe longer. My program was always just PM with SP. Now I am using Licorice, White Peony and PC to attempt to break the stall. Too soon to judge results, but I firmly believe PC is a good component, at least after you have some growth.
I just had my hormones tested last week and will get the results, hopefully, on Monday. I am very curious to see the results.

[lostacres6]

Yes, I still do PC twice daily. About a year ago I had a hormone test done & my testosterone was high but said normal for my age (contradiction?). Estrogen & progesterone were low. I was on Eve's program at the time. I've been on PM for 8 mo. now. I used to weight train but not heavy, just to rev up my lean mass. I'll be on NBE 4 years this summer & I've had modest growth til the past few months.
Thanks again for sharing your wisdom.

Interesting, Lostacres, we have been involved in all this for approximately the same amount of time. I will also hit four years this summer. And I also have essentially stalled over the past couple of months, and maybe longer. My program was always just PM with SP. Now I am using Licorice, White Peony and PC to attempt to break the stall. Too soon to judge results, but I firmly believe PC is a good component, at least after you have some growth.
I just had my hormones tested last week and will get the results, hopefully, on Monday. I am very curious to see the results.

Samantha,
I'll be very interested in learning of your hormone results. Are you also in your 60's as I am? (I'm also a grandmother of 6). Can you imagine grandmothers trying to grow breasts????
I started the licorice root today, starting out at just 450 mg a day. I'm hoping to repeat the hormone test this summer.
Keep me informed, please. Thanks

[undecided]

Lotus,

I came across this when looking into Deer Velvet, have you seen this before, and what are your thoughts.

Side Effects
At the time of this writing, there are no well-known or consistently documented side effects caused this supplement. Some health experts express concern, and some research supports, that this supplement may be contaminated with infectious particles called prions, which cause chronic wasting disease in deer and elk. Prions, which are not broken down by high heat or other forms of processing, have been implicated in causing mad cow disease in cattle, and new variant (nvCJD), a neurodegenerative disease, in humans.

Deer antler extract is purported to contain insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1), which is a banned substance for many professional athletic competitions

I`m not too sure the idea of opening myself up to "Cruetzfeldt-Jakob disease" is something I would think i worth the risk.

[ellacraig]

Lotus,

I came across this when looking into Deer Velvet, have you seen this before, and what are your thoughts.

Side Effects
At the time of this writing, there are no well-known or consistently documented side effects caused this supplement. Some health experts express concern, and some research supports, that this supplement may be contaminated with infectious particles called prions, which cause chronic wasting disease in deer and elk. Prions, which are not broken down by high heat or other forms of processing, have been implicated in causing mad cow disease in cattle, and new variant (nvCJD), a neurodegenerative disease, in humans.

Deer antler extract is purported to contain insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1), which is a banned substance for many professional athletic competitions

I`m not too sure the idea of opening myself up to "Cruetzfeldt-Jakob disease" is something I would think i worth the risk.

Sorry to butt in Janet. But I looked into deer velvet and got scared off by the very reason you have posted. I looked into the cases of wasting disease myself and it seemed the only reported cases were in the UK from their Deer and there's never been any reported cases in my country NZ. It's NZ that has the purest and reputable sources and supplier of Deer Antler too.
There was never any reported cases of that over here.

Sorry back to you Lotus

[Lotus]

Lotus,

I came across this when looking into Deer Velvet, have you seen this before, and what are your thoughts.

Side Effects
At the time of this writing, there are no well-known or consistently documented side effects caused this supplement. Some health experts express concern, and some research supports, that this supplement may be contaminated with infectious particles called prions, which cause chronic wasting disease in deer and elk. Prions, which are not broken down by high heat or other forms of processing, have been implicated in causing mad cow disease in cattle, and new variant (nvCJD), a neurodegenerative disease, in humans.

Deer antler extract is purported to contain insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1), which is a banned substance for many professional athletic competitions

I`m not too sure the idea of opening myself up to "Cruetzfeldt-Jakob disease" is something I would think i worth the risk.

Sorry to butt in Janet. But I looked into deer velvet and got scared off by the very reason you have posted. I looked into the cases of wasting disease myself and it seemed the only reported cases were in the UK from their Deer and there's never been any reported cases in my country NZ. It's NZ that has the purest and reputable sources and supplier of Deer Antler too.
There was never any reported cases of that over here.

Sorry back to you Lotus

Hi Janet,
Here's some of the info I have on Deer Antler,

What Is Chronic Wasting Disease?
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/cwd/

Can Humans Get CWD?
http://cwd-info.org/index.php/fuseaction...d28fb50f98

Insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) antler-stimulating hormone?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3881250

Deer Velvet
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-808-DEER%20VELVET.aspx?activeIngredientId=808&activeIngredientName=DEER%20VELVET

Plus a ton of suppliers out there, it's a supplement so it's not regulated by the FDA and not tested for efficacy or standardization. TBH, I'd skip it if you're unsure or don't feel good about it, I've never used it so I can't say one way or another.

[Lotus]

Also posted in the Herbal FAQ,

New updates w/linked interactions

Herbs/plant based and grains used for breast enlargement

• PUERARIA MIRIFCA- The most potent phytoestrogen, targets E receptors, minor AA (daidzien) pro-aromatase (Genistein), potential to suppress gonadotropins, potential vasoconstrictor, can increase the potential for blood clots relative to estradiol (especially if you are predisposed).
  

PUERARIA MIRIFICA -Moderate Interaction

• FENUGREEK- Prolactin stimulate, increases production of estrogen, phytoestrogen, adaptogen
  

FENUGREEK- Moderate Interaction

• BLESSED THISTLE- Increases the flow of milk, (causes irritation of GI tract)
  

BLESSED THISTLE Minor Interaction

• NETTLE ROOT-Binds to SHBG, increases estrogen and testosterone
  

NETTLE

• SAW PALMETTO-DHT inhibiting effect, decreases progesterone receptors, (Taking saw palmetto along with estrogen pills might decrease the effectiveness of estrogen pills).

SAW PALMETTO -Moderate Interaction

• HOPS-Activates alpha estrogen receptors which stimulates breast growth, increases SHBG which binds free testosterone
  

HOPS -Moderate Interaction

• WHITE PEONY ROOTEstrogenic, blocks 5-ar and pro-aromatase, strong
  

WHITE PEONY ROOT-Moderate Interaction

• FENNEL-Promotes milk production, nutrient rich for NBE growth, stimulates the growth of breast tissue

FENNEL -Moderate Interaction

• WILD YAM-Stimulates hormone production, increases progesterone, prolactin, anti-androgen, and slows the metabolism of estrone, one of the body's own estrogens.
  

WILD YAM

• DONG QUAI-Balance hormones, assists breast enlargement, improves gland function
  activities

DONG QUAI Major Interaction

• RED CLOVER-Minor aromatase inhibitor, highly estrogenic, Binds to alpha estrogen receptor
  

RED CLOVER Moderate Interaction

• LICORICE ROOT-Anti-androgenic, activates alpha and beta estrogen receptors and blocks 5-ar, DGL is thought to have fewer side effects

LICORICE ROOT Major Interaction

• ANISE-Stimulates breast growth by increasing E, (1980 study published in the Journal of Ethnopharmacology)

ANISE

• BLACK COHOSH-Appears to bind to estrogen receptors, mimics hormonal effects of estrogen, estriol

BLACK COHOSH

• ALFALFANatural phytoestrogens, helps with menopausal symptoms, inhibits bone loss caused by estrogen deficiency

ALFALFA Major Interaction

• CHASTE TREE-Corrects hormone imbalances, increases LH in favor of E and progesterone

CHASTEBERRY -Moderate Interaction

• MACA ROOT-Abundant in amino acids, phytonutrients, healthy fatty acids, vitamins, and minerals, increase in energy and libido, adaptogen

MACA + MACA

• GOATS RUE-Builds breast tissue and increases milk supply
  

GOAT'S RUE -Moderate Interaction

• RED REISHI-Significantly reduces levels of 5-alpha reductase (DHT)
  

REISHI -Moderate Interaction

• SHATAVARI-Phytoestrogen, normalizes estrogen levels, prolactin source, adaptogen
  

SHATAVARI -Moderate Interaction

• ASHWAGANDHA-Adaptogen, restores a sense of well-being, similar to Panax ginseng

ASHWAGANDHA -Moderate Interaction

• DANDELION ROOT-Upregulates estrogen receptors, uses the estrogen you are putting in

DANDELION- Moderate Interaction

• DAMIANA-For hormone imbalance, improve poor mammary gland development
  

DAMIANA -Moderate Interaction

• MILK THISLTE-Cleanses the liver of excess hormones
  

MILK THISTLE -Moderate Interaction

• CHINESE SKULLCAP-Inhibits 5-alpha-reductase enzyme
  

SKULLCAP -Moderate Interaction

• MARSHMALLOW ROOT-Inhibits Hyaluronidase, increases tissue permeability
  

MARSHMALLOW -Moderate Interaction

• WATERCRESS-Increases energy, high in iron and vitamin E
  

WATERCRESS -Moderate Interaction

• RED RASPBERRY--Balance hormones, promotes breast health
  

RED RASPBERRY

• PASSION FLOWER-Calming agent that adds to total well being
  

PASSIONFLOWER -Moderate Interaction

• SENNA-To increase absorption and effectiveness of herbs, eliminates toxins
  

SENNA -Moderate Interaction

• PYGEUM-Reduces the level of DHT, reduces prolacting levels, Inhibits 5-alpha reductase

PYGEUM

• SPEARMINT-Anti-androgenic properties reduces the level of free testosterone in the blood, while leaving total testosterone and DHEAS unaffected

SPEARMINT

• FLAX-Phytoestrogen, increases SHBG, source of omega-3 fatty acids, Lignans (Flaxseed) inhibits aromatase and lowers estrogen levels.
  

FLAXSEED -Moderate Interaction

• OATS-Phytoestrogen, decreases SHBG, source of zinc, iron, vitamins B6, vitamin E and amino acids

OATS

• YOGURT--Rich in vitamins, calcium and minerals, growth factors stimulate fibroblast proliferation, collagen, probiotic , and has lactic acid component

YOGURT -Moderate Interaction

• PABA- Decreases breakdown of estrogen in your body so you have more free estrogen.
  

PABA Major Interaction

• COCONUT OIL- Makes connective tissues stronger, superb antioxidant, neutralizes free radicals and slowing down aging, aids in breast feeding, nature's richest source of MCFAs."
  

COCCONUT OIL

• LADIES MANTLE-The Tannis (6-8%) in LM causes contractions, protects conjunctive and elastic tissues, contains salicylic acid (a mild painkilling action) for painful menstrual periods, It's astringent increases blood flow for circulation and helps with saggy breasts.
  

LADY'S MANTLE

Always consult with a medical professional when having concerns about NBE and NBE supplements.

-More to follow-

(The Herb Interactions comes from the FAQ-Herb interaction which Peggy created, thanks again Peggy)

[lostacres6]

Hi Lotus,
Great list of supplements. I wish I had the time & energy to do the research as good as you do.
I didn't see Black (seed) cumin on the list. I read that it contributes to breast swelling by increasing prolactin. Have you read or do you know if this is correct or am I wasting my money on it?
Thanks

[ellacraig]

Hi Lotus,
Great list of supplements. I wish I had the time & energy to do the research as good as you do.
I didn't see Black (seed) cumin on the list. I read that it contributes to breast swelling by increasing prolactin. Have you read or do you know if this is correct or am I wasting my money on it?
Thanks

I take blackseed as i read the same. I mostly take it as a wonder supplement and it is well known to ease inflammation. Any suplement big pharma trys to patent you KNOW has to be good!

But yes back to you Lotus

[ellacraig]

Lotus after you answer Lotsa can you look into "colostrum"
Its growth factors and links to increased risk of cancer as a result, its colostrums IGF growth factors?

Thanks x

[Lotus]

Hi Lotus,
Great list of supplements. I wish I had the time & energy to do the research as good as you do.
I didn't see Black (seed) cumin on the list. I read that it contributes to breast swelling by increasing prolactin. Have you read or do you know if this is correct or am I wasting my money on it?
Thanks

Hi lostacres,

I remember looking at cumin before, from what I read it was a phytoestrogen, but not a very strong one. I also have the following info,

1) Adding cumin spice to your favorite dishes or teas to boosts flavor and can help increase mammary glands within your breasts, suggest "The Green Pharmacy Herbal Handbook." Laboratory tests have shown that mammals may increase breast size through cumin use, although human studies have not yet been documented.

2) I believe it was the same research that was done on female lab animals, (what kind idk) and again it showed that cumin increases the number of mammary cells. The study said mammary cells, like the actual glands is usually the action of progesterone in the breast tissue.

3) I found cumin in one herbal tea blend for increasing breast milk. I suppose it's a galactogogue, much like goat's rue.

4) There are also numerous papers showing black cumin seed's benefits in tumour therapy, especially tumours that are resistant to anti tumour drugs.

My guess, it has some NBE benefit, to what extent other than whats listed I don't know. The link didn't work for the green pharmacy handbook. I'll add to list ASAP.