[Lotus]

Lotus after you answer Lotsa can you look into "colostrum"
Its growth factors and links to increased risk of cancer as a result, its colostrums IGF growth factors?

Thanks x

Hi Ella, I think your wanting to know whether consuming colostrum provides any benefit from IGF-1 to HGH, if so the search yielded some interesting results, and so far it's pretty mixed:

Growth Factor Raises Cancer Risk,
High levels of a well-known growth factor significantly increase the risks of colorectal, breast, and prostate cancer, medical researchers have found.

At the same time, they determined that a protein that binds to the growth factor seems to neutralize it and reduce the risk of these malignancies, which are three of the four biggest cancer killers in the United States.
http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/1999...story.html


Bovine growth hormone: human food safety evaluation.
Scientists in the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), after reviewing the scientific literature and evaluating studies conducted by pharmaceutical companies, have concluded that the use of recombinant bovine growth hormone (rbGH) in dairy cattle presents no increased health risk to consumers.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?cmd=Retrieve&list_uids=2203142&dopt=Citation


IGF-1 from colostrum performs many of the functions of human growth hormone
In the body, insulin-like growth factor (IGF-1) is produced in response to growth hormone, and as a result is a marker for HGH. Since naturally produced HGH is released in surges and has a very short life span in the body, it is not practical to measure HGH levels directly. Because much of HGH is used by the body to produce IGF-1, which has a fairly long lifetime in the body, tests for HGH levels rely on the amount of IGF-1 present.

This means that supplementing with colostrum provides many of the benefits of HGH without the high cost or need for daily injections. It is IGF-1 that is responsible for many of the benefits provided by colostrum. Studies indicating that bovine colostrum supplementation can increase levels of IGF-1 in the body date back to 1998. (Australian Conference of Science and Medicine in Sport, Adelaide, South Australia)

In seminal research dating back to 1988, both IGF-1 and IGF-2 as well as a truncated, more potent form of IFG-1 were found in bovine colostrum. IGF was classed as a mitogen that controls replication and repair of DNA and RNA in order to stimulate tissue growth and repair. (Journal of Biochemistry, 1988)

As people start to realize they are aging, they often turn to vitamins, minerals and herbs for the benefits and support those can provide. But plants and minerals do not have immune systems like those of people. They do not produce the same immune factors or immunoglubulins, and they do not have growth factors for skeleton, muscle or skin.


Over 5,000 studies have described the many benefits of colostrum
In research, colostrum has demonstrated the ability to kill viral and bacteria invaders, stimulate tissue repair, stimulate fat utilization for fuel, and optimize cellular reproduction to slow aging. Colostrum increases performance and speeds recovery following injury and stress. It increases mental alertness and fat burning, and normalizes blood sugar levels. Here are some interesting research highlights

More are listed here:

http://www.naturalnews.com/026618_Colost...z38RIjmLmM

I hope this helps, let me know.

[ellacraig]

Thanks L that was very thorough
My thoughts based on this would be it should be ok to take colostrum but short term for the purposes of healing or an immune boost in times of need.
Im curious as to what the protein is that renders it safe.
I researched it a lot prior to purchasing, the info is soo confusing as on the one hand they are saying the growth factors contribute too cancers and on the others the boosting of the immune system is a preventative TOO cancer and also been used as a treatment!
If only there was a crystal ball we could look into that had all the answers to the universe in it and save us all the research.

Thanks heaps L.

[Lotus]

Hi Lotus,
Great list of supplements. I wish I had the time & energy to do the research as good as you do.
I didn't see Black (seed) cumin on the list. I read that it contributes to breast swelling by increasing prolactin. Have you read or do you know if this is correct or am I wasting my money on it?
Thanks

Hi lostacres,

I remember looking at cumin before, from what I read it was a phytoestrogen, but not a very strong one. I also have the following info,

1) Adding cumin spice to your favorite dishes or teas to boosts flavor and can help increase mammary glands within your breasts, suggest "The Green Pharmacy Herbal Handbook." Laboratory tests have shown that mammals may increase breast size through cumin use, although human studies have not yet been documented.

2) I believe it was the same research that was done on female lab animals, (what kind idk) and again it showed that cumin increases the number of mammary cells. The study said mammary cells, like the actual glands is usually the action of progesterone in the breast tissue.

3) I found cumin in one herbal tea blend for increasing breast milk. I suppose it's a galactogogue, much like goat's rue.

4) There are also numerous papers showing black cumin seed's benefits in tumour therapy, especially tumours that are resistant to anti tumour drugs.

My guess, it has some NBE benefit, to what extent other than whats listed I don't know. The link didn't work for the green pharmacy handbook. I'll add to list ASAP.

Lostacres,

I looked into Black Seed Cumin further, I've found no link to phytoestrogens, it has estrogen like effects and many many other benefits though. You'll find a closer link in cumin (not related) being a phytoestrogen than nigella sativa, aka black seed cumin. You're more than welcome to check these, I went through them all for quite a while and couldn't find a link.

Black Seed - 'The Remedy For Everything But Death'
http://www.greenmedinfo.com

Hypolipidemic effect of Cuminum cyminum L. on alloxan-induced diabetic rats.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12220968

An investigation of the analgesic and anti-inflammatory effects of Nigella sativa seed polyphenols.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16379560?dopt=Abstract&holding=f1000,f1000m,isrctn

Nigella sativa: A Potential Antiosteoporotic Agent
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles...po=23.6842

Pharmacological and toxicological properties of Nigella sativa
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12722...t=Abstract


The protective effect of thymoquinone, an anti-oxidant and anti­-inflammatory agent, against renal injury: A review
http://www.sjkdt.org/article.asp?issn=13...ast=Ragheb

Chemopreventive potential of volatile oil from black cumin (Nigella sativa L.) seeds against rat colon carcinogenesis.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12881014

The effect of Nigella sativa L. (black cumin seed) on intractable pediatric seizures.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18049435

Classification for Kingdom Plantae Down to Genus Nigella L.
http://plants.usda.gov/java/ClassificationServlet?source=display&classid=NIGEL


VS.


CUMIN


Health benefits of cumin
http://www.organicfacts.net/health-benef...-cumin.htm

Cumin
http://www.drugs.com/npc/cumin.html

How to Make Breasts Grow Faster
http://www.livestrong.com/article/263508...ow-faster/

[epik123]

Frequently used supplements, not a complete list but it's most of them!

Estrogenic Herbs:
Pueraria Mirifica - Awesome for breast growth.
Red Clover - Minor aromatase inhibitor, but highly estrogenic. Binds some to alpha estrogen receptors(boob growth receptor).
Hops - Not as estrogenic as PM or red clover, but activates alpha estrogen receptors which stimulate breast growth.

Pro-hormone's:
DHEA - The direct building block of other hormones
Fish oil - provides plenty of good fats and nutrients for hormone production.
FATS/Protein - Go to town. The more fats you take in the more your body has for hormone production. Cholesterol is a direct building block for all other hormones. No more 'light' anything. Whole and saturated fats.
Bovine ovaries - Also estrogenic, pro-aromatase, as well as 5-AR inhibiting.

Pro-Aromatase:
Peony Root - Estrogenic, blocks 5ar and pro-aromatase - Strong.
genistein - Estrogenic and pro-aromatase
Licorice - Anti-androgenic and activates alpha and beta estrogen receptors and blocks 5-ar - Strong, but take in moderation! http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2011/11/...adiol.html
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=5250

Potentiators:
Dandelion root - Good for detoxing the liver, and upregulates estrogen receptors so your body uses the estrogen you are putting in.
Nettle Root - Binds to SHBG (binds to excess hormones decreasing hormone levels), and decreases 5ar and aromatase. Taking this tends to increase estrogen and testosterone. Would need to be taken with a pro-aromatase, and maybe estrogen.
PABA - Decreases breakdown of estrogen in your body so you have more free estrogen.
Gaba - Increases growth hormone
Grape fruit - Slow the breakdown of estrogen
Deer velvet - Increases growth hormone

Saw palmetto-Saw palmetto- Beta-sitosterol is a natural alpha-adrenergic receptor blocker. Specifically, it prevents a degraded form of testosterone called dihydrotestosterone from accumulating in prostate tissue that would otherwise cause excessive cell growth and inflammation. The plant steroids in saw palmetto also act on progesterone receptors, an action that causes a reduction in estrogen levels. According to the results of a large international trial published in the "Journal of Clinical Oncology" in April 2011, estrogen and progesterone receptor status is a predictive marker of early breast cancer and post-treatment relapse.

Pygeum-
The active constituents of Pygeum extract include phytosterols that inhibit the production of dht. Pygeum also has ingredients that reduce prolacting levels and block the accumulation of cholesterol in the prostate. Prolactin is believed to increase the uptake of testosterone by the prostate, and cholesterol increases binding sites for dht. Pygeum basically reduces the levels of DHT in the blood and reduces the number of sites where the dht can attach. This includes reducing the number of hair follicles where dht would bind. When combined with Saw Palmetto it seems to have a truly synergetic effect on the prevention of hair loss.

Chinese Skullcap Inhibits the 5alpha-reductase enzyme-
Baicalein has been shown to inhibit the 5alpha-reductase enzyme, which converts testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (DHT). DHT is strongly associated with the development of prostate enlargement (benign prostatic hyperplasia) and prostate cancer. As such, baicalein is reported to be potentially useful for the prevention and/or treatment of androgen-dependent (testosterone-driven) disorders, including prostate enlargement and prostate cancer.


DIM is Diindolylmethane. It is an anticarcinogen and also improves estrogen metabolism. Plant-derived 3,3′-Diindolylmethane Is a Strong Androgen Antagonist in Human Prostate Cancer Cells* DIM is remarkably similar in conformational geometry and surface charge distribution to an established synthetic AR antagonist, although the atomic compositions of the two substances are quite different. Taken together with our published reports of the estrogen agonist activities of DIM, the present results establish DIM as a unique bifunctional hormone disrupter. To our knowledge, DIM is the first example of a pure androgen receptor antagonist from plants.
http://www.jbc.org/content/278/23/21136.full

Chaste tree- (or chasteberry) is a native of the Mediterranean region and is traditionally used to correct hormone imbalances.

Maca is powerfully abundant in amino acids, phytonutrients, healthy fatty acids, vitamins, and minerals. This superfood (foods that are nutrient-dense and offer tremendous dietary and healing potential) has the ability to increase energy and stamina, oxygenate the blood, support neurotransmitter production, and enhance libido.

Coconut oil contains predominantly medium-chain fatty acids (MCFA) or medium-chain triglycerides (MCT). MCFAs provide your skin with antimicrobial agents that ward off infection and disease, while making connective tissues stronger for that much desired softness and elasticity." "MCFAs also has superb antioxidant activities that neutralize free radicals and slow down aging. Coconut oil is nature's richest source of MCFAs."

Black Cohosh-The weak estrogenlike effects of black cohosh suppressed increased luteinizing hormone secretion in menopausal women, and this effect was specifically linked with a reduction in the incidence of hot flashes (Duker et al. 1991). Black cohosh extract has shown estrogenic effects within the body in several studies, but it does not elevate estrogen levels in the blood. Black cohosh extract appears to bind to estrogen receptors in order to mimic the hormonal effects of the weak estrogen, estriol.

Gamma linolenic acid (GLA) is a dietary omega-6 fatty acid found in many plant oil extracts. Commercial products are typically made from seed extracts from evening primrose (average oil content 7-14%), blackcurrant (15-20%), borage oil (20-27%) and fungal oil (25%). GLA is not found in high levels in the diet. It has been suggested that some individuals may not convert the omega-6 fatty acid linoleic acid to longer chain derivatives, such as GLA, efficiently. Thus, supplementation with GLA-containing oils, such as borage oil and evening primrose oil, is occasionally recommended to increase GLA levels in the body.

More details about White Peony-Chinese peony is a widely grown ornamental plant with several hundred selected cultivars. Many of the cultivars have double flowers with the stamens modified into additional petals. White peony has been important in traditional Chinese medicine and has been shown to affect human androgen levels in vitro. In a 1991 study in the American Journal of Chinese Medicine Takeuchi et al described the effects of paeoniflorin, a compound found in white peony that inhibited the production of testosterone and promoted the activity of aromatase, which converts testosterone into estrogen (7). To date, there have been no studies that translate or explore the clinical effects


More details about Reishi (Ganoderma lucidum)
Red reishi, commonly known as LingZhi in Chinese, is a mushroom thought to have many health benefits. In a research study exploring the anti-androgenic effects of 20 species of mushrooms, reishi mushrooms had the strongest action in inhibiting testosterone (3). That study found that reishi mushrooms significantly reduced levels of 5-alpha reductase, preventing conversion of testosterone into the more potent DHT. High levels of DHT are a risk factor for conditions such as benign prostatatic hypertrophy (BPH), acne, and baldness.


More details about Spearmint-anti-androgenic properties reduce the level of free testosterone in the blood, while leaving total testosterone and DHEAS unaffected, as demonstrated in a study from Turkey by Akdogan and colleagues.

References for the anti-androgens and a more complete list:
http://endometabol.com/?page=article&article_id=3644
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3693613/
http://www.jbc.org/content/278/23/21136.full

Epigallocatechin-Green tea (camellia) Reduce the conversion of free testosterone into DHT; Possibly useful for herbal breast reduction.


Genistein- Most phytoestrogenic isoflavonoid. Less times estrogenic than 8-prenylnaringenin. Furthermore, interacts fractionally less with ER-α alpha than ER-β. Slightly increases chances of estrogen positive cancer, but reduces the chances of estrogen negative cancer. Fenugreek is not to be used during pregnancy.

(Both are members of Legume family: Soy, Red clover, Fenugreek, Fennel, Pueraria Mirifica)

Daidzein- is a phytoestrogen that also acts as a phytoandrogen since it activates androgen receptors. Causes body hair growth:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.10...7BF.f04t01

Shatavarins Asparagus-Lactogogue ( Galactagogue), Anticancer properties, Known to be safe. Men may benefit from the herb as well in the treatment of impotence and general sexual debility. Shatavari contains phyto-estrogens, hormones that normalize estrogen levels and also play an important role in preserving women's long term health.

Diosgenin Wild yam, Fenugreek-Estrogenic. Can be converted to progesterone in a lab. Fenugreek seed sprouts contain more diosgenin than non-sprout fenugreek seeds. Anticancer properties. 600mg/day of fenugreek seed powder caused an average increase of breastmilk volume by 20%.

Nettle Root-nettle root can interfere with or block a number these hormone-related chemical processes in the body that are implicated in the development of BPH. In clinical research, nettle has demonstrated the ability to stop the conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (by inhibiting aromatase, an enzyme required for the conversion), as well as to directly bind to SHBG itself - thereby preventing SHBG from binding to other hormones. Other research also reveals that nettles can prevent SHBG that has already bound to a hormone from attaching to the receptor sites on the prostate, as well as to decrease the production of estrogens (estradiol and estrone) by inhibiting an enzyme required for their production. The effect of nettle root on dihydrotestosterone (DHT) levels has also made it a treatment for hair loss, as male pattern balding has often been linked to an excess of DHT, as has hair loss in women too.

____________________________________________________________________

Part 2


More Supplements Used For NBE

Alfalfa is said to contain natural phytoestrogens, and the herb has shown
some estrogenic activity in women whose own sex hormone production has declined; thus, Alfalfa is thought to have helped many women with the discomforts of menopause and help with menopausal symptoms, particularly hot flashes. The vitamin K2 found in Alfalfa may also partially inhibit bone loss caused by estrogen deficiency.

Amino acid is any one of a class of simple organic compounds containing carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, and in certain cases sulfur. These compounds are the building blocks of proteins. Amino acids are biochemical building blocks. (31 common amino acids) http://www.vitamins-supplements.org/amino-acids/


Ashwagandha is an adaptogen, or substance that helps the body adapt to emotional and physical stress and reinstate the metabolic balance in the body after stressful situations, helping the body return to normal function and restoring a sense of well-being. It is said to produce healthful effects similar to those of Panax ginseng.

Dandelion Taraxacum officinal, The root especially effects all forms of secretion and excretion from the body. This boosting of secretion is key to the formation of new breast cells and tissue, and the boosting of excretion is key to the cleansing of the estrogen receptor sites which get clouded with environmental toxins that mimic estrogen.


Chasteberry has been used for centuries to control and regulate the female reproductive system. The herb appears to show the presence of compounds that are able to adjust the production of female hormones. It normalizes hormone levels and helps to regulate menstrual cycles, helping to regulate monthly periods and treating amenorrhea (absence of menstruation), dysmenorrhea (painful menstruation) and endometriosis. Chasteberry is believed to promote fertility in women by stimulating growth of the uterine lining, which increases the chances that a fertilized egg will attach to the uterus. Because of its ability to normalize hormone function, Chasteberry has been used to aid the body in regaining a natural balance after the prolonged use of birth control pills.


Damiana has been used for thousands of years as a botanical aphrodisiac that may help a variety of problems. It apparently contains elements that are thought to directly stimulate the nerves, genitals, blood circulation and metabolism, and it is believed to encourage sex drive in both men and women. In males, Damiana is said to help in cases of impotence and erectile dysfunction, as well as relieve erectile failure in attempts at repeated intercourse after orgasm. It is also believed to increase sperm count. As an aphrodisiac, women have found Damiana very helpful. It is said to encourage delivery of oxygen to the genital area and stimulate the genitals, which has been useful in cases where there is lack of desire and frigidity. It is also thought to elevate the level of pleasure during sex and manage sexual trauma.


Evening Primrose possesses a high content of the rare gamma linolenic acid (GLA) that appears to produce a host of beneficial effects. GLA is an unsaturated fatty acid that assists in the production of prostaglandins, the hormones necessary for many important bodily functions. GLA helps the body produce energy and forms part of the structural fats that comprise the brain, muscle, bone marrow and cell membranes.

Fenugreek Seed contains some of the highest concentrations of the plant elements recommended by herbalists for breast enlargement. Also hormone regulator that that has been used to treat menopausal symptoms and balances the female system

Fennel Seed rich in flavonoids that cause estrogenic effects. This boosting of secretion is key to the formation of new breast cells and tissue, and the boosting of excretion is key to the cleansing of the estrogen receptor sites which get clouded with environmental toxins that mimic estrogen.

Dong Quai Root aids the body in the efficient use of hormones. Also used as treatment for some menopause symptoms. It has been used successfully to alleviate PMS (premenstrual syndrome) and menopausal symptoms. Scientists believe that one mechanism of action of Dong Quai is to promote natural progesterone synthesis.

L-Tyrosine A naturally occurring amino acid, Tyrosine plays an important role in the functioning of the adrenal, pituitary, and thyroid glands, which control hormone production. Some studies suggest that Tyrosine may also stimulate the
production of growth hormone, which helps build muscle and reduce body fat.

Pacific Kelp is an excellent source of minerals from the sea, including iodine, which is essential for proper thyroid function.


Mexican Wild Yam Root: Commonly used as a treatment for osteoporosis,
Mexican Wild Yam is a excellent source of Beta-Carotene and diosgenin, which are powerful Phytochemicals aiding in optimal breast development.


MSM makes collagen by changing softer protein into harder connective tissue collagen


L Arginine- Studies suggest that sexual maturity may be delayed by arginine deficiency; conversley, argininein treating sterlity in men. It is foundin high concentrations in the skin and connective tissue, making it helpful and repair of damaged tissue. Arginine is important for muscle metablism. It helps to maintain a proper nitrogen balnce by acting as a vehicle for transpertation and storage, and aiding in the excretion, of excess nitrogen.It is also involved in a variety of enzymes and HORMONES. It aids in stimulating the pancreas to release insulin, is a componant of the pituitary hormone vasopressin, and ASSIST in the release of GROWTH HORMONES. Because arginine is a componant of collagen and aids in building new bone and tendon cells, it can be good for arthritis and connective tissue disorders. Scar tissue that forms during wound healing is made up of collagen, which is rich in arginine.

Orithine- Orithine helps to PROMPT the release of GROWTH HORMONE, which promotes the metabolism of excess fat. This effect is enhanced if orithine is combined with arginine and carnitine. Orithine is necessary for proper immune system and liver function. This Amino Acid also detoxifies ammonia and aids in liver regeneration. High concentrations of Orithine are found in the skin and connective tissue, making it useful for promoting healing and repairing to damaged tisues.
Orithine is synthesized in the body from arginine, and in turn serves as the precurser of citrulline,proline, and glutamic acid.

Hi Lotus,

Thanks for all your great, very detailed info! Very helpful! I am new to NBE and have just started doing some research about herbal supplements. I wanted to ask how do you know if you are Estrogen Dominant/Defficient etc. I am slightly confused by the results from symptoms in the list.

Are there DIY kits you can use to test this? I think I am Estrogen dominant and Progesterone defficient? But am not sure. I am 20 and have had my period since 14 or 15 I think? I am not taking the contraceptive pill.

What would you suggest if I do have hormone imbalances - does Maca help? I feel like I never went through sudden puberty or that the very slow changes weren't dramatic?


Thanks so much for your help!!

[Lotus]

Hi Lotus,

Thanks for all your great, very detailed info! Very helpful! I am new to NBE and have just started doing some research about herbal supplements. I wanted to ask how do you know if you are Estrogen Dominant/Defficient etc. I am slightly confused by the results from symptoms in the list.

Are there DIY kits you can use to test this? I think I am Estrogen dominant and Progesterone defficient? But am not sure. I am 20 and have had my period since 14 or 15 I think? I am not taking the contraceptive pill.

What would you suggest if I do have hormone imbalances - does Maca help? I feel like I never went through sudden puberty or that the very slow changes weren't dramatic?


Thanks so much for your help!!



Hi Epik,

This DIY list was complied 6 years ago from a member named waxingmoon, I've made some edits to the original post, check it out, it's along read but very helpful. Maca is an adaptogen and helps to balance hormones. the full thread is here: http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=5135

Estrogen Dominance and Deficiency symptom list...
July 13 2008 at 4:41 PM waxingmoon (Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER

Here is the list of estrogen dominance symptoms- copied from the book 'What your doctor may not tell you about premenopause' by Dr. John Lee. As you can see there are quite a few. In order to consider yourself estrogen dominant you should have 5 or more of these symptoms. (those symptoms that are identical to estrogen deficiency are **)


Acceleration of the aging process
Allergy symptoms
Auto-immune disorders
Breast cancer
Breast tenderness**
Cervical dysplasia
Cold hands and feet as a symptom of thyroid dysfunction
Copper excess
Decreased sex drive**
Depression with anxiety or agitation**
Dry eyes
Early onset of menstruation
Endometrial cancer
Fat gain -especially around the abdomen, hips and thighs**
Fibrocystic breasts
Foggy thinking**
Gallbladder disease
Hair loss**
Headaches**
Hypoglycemia
Increased blood clotting
Infertility**
Irregular menstrual cycles**
Irritability
Insomnia**
Magnesium deficiency
Memory loss**
Mood swings**
Osteoporosis
PMS
Polycystic ovaries
Premenopausal bone loss
Prostate cancer (obviously this one is about men)
Sluggish metabolism
Thyroid dysfunction mimicking hypothyroidism
Uterine cancer
Uterine fibroids
Water retention, bloating**
Zinc deficiency

If you have 5 or more of these symptoms you may be Estrogen Dominant. Please keep reading and see how many symptoms you have from the next list.

Estrogen Deficiency Symptoms. I found this list on a website talking about early menopause. (those symptoms that are identical to estrogen dominance/progesterone deficiency are **)

Irregular Periods (changes in frequency, duration, skipped periods, etc.) **
Infertility **
Hot Flashes and Night Sweats
Vaginal Dryness
Bladder Control Problems
Insomnia/Disrupted Sleep **
Palpitations
Weight Gain (especially around your waist and abdomen)**
Skin Changes (dryness, thinning look)
Headaches **
Breast Tenderness **
Gastrointestinal Distress and Nausea.
Tingling or Itchy Skin.
"Buzzing" in your head, Electric Shock Sensation
Bloating**
Dizziness/Light headedness
Sore Joints/Muscles
Hair Loss or Thinning **
Increase in Facial Hair
Changes in Body Odor
Dry Mouth and Other Oral Symptoms
Irritability
Mood Swings **
Lowered Libido **
Anxiety **
"Brain Fog" -- difficulty concentrating, confusion **
Memory Lapses **
Extreme Fatigue/Low Energy Levels **
Confusion/Lack of Concentration **
Feeling Emotionally Detached

If you have at least 5 of these symptoms you may have estrogen deficiency. Keep reading to find out how to interpret your symptoms and what to do about them..

If the symptoms you have are all the ** ones (shared by both conditions) then you are probably estrogen dominant -normal estrogen with low progesterone.

If you have a lot of the top list and not many of the ** ones then your are probably estrogen dominant -high estrogen with insufficient progesterone.

If you have a lot of the bottom list but also have some ** or also a lot of the top list then you are probably estrogen dominant- low estrogen and even lower progesterone.

If you have mostly bottom list and nothing from the top list but the ** then you are probably estrogen deficient.

The only way to be more certain than this is to have your hormones tested. Your results for all hormone testing will be influenced by what day of your cycle you are tested on. Your estrogen and progesterone levels constantly rise and fall n your cycle.

You can purchase hormone saliva tests online and they can give some accurate readings especially for progesterone levels.

You can have blood tests which also can give some accurate answers, but also some hormones are not best tested with this method.

Sometimes you can test within a normal range for your hormones but you may still have symptoms.


1. Estrogen Dominance caused by normal estrogen paired with lower than normal progesterone. Hormonal need: increase progesterone to balance estrogen. NBE strategy: correct hormonal imbalance with use of vitex or progesterone cream first then try galactogogue based NBE.

2. Estrogen Dominance caused by higher than normal estrogen paired with a normal amount of progesterone. Hormonal need: lower estrogen levels. NBE strategy: use very low dose phytoestrogens (crushed flaxseed) to block estrogen receptors from more potent estrogens and possibly support progesterone with vitex or progesterone cream until symptoms abate. NBE that focuses on massage, suction or hypnosis may work better for this category.

3. Estrogen Dominance caused by low estrogen paired with even lower progesterone. Hormonal need: raise progesterone levels first then slowly bring up estrogen levels. NBE strategy: focus on increasing progesterone through vitex and progesterone cream until all symptoms abate. Continue support of progesterone and bring in galactogogues or low dose phytoestrogens (fennel, maca) to support estrogen.

________________________________________________________________

Then of course there are all the mixes of Estrogen Dominance plus excess androgens, Estrogen Dominance plus PCOS, Estrogen Dominance plus ????? - so those kinds of remedies are going to need a different focus.

The basic idea in my opinion is to clear up the hormone imbalance first then attempt NBE.

Some women get over their estrogen dominance after they have balanced the progesterone levels. Some women continue to have problems with the progesterone/estrogen ratio and must continuously treat their estrogen dominance. There is no way of knowing what category you fit into. It is all


Galactogogues may be and effective NBE for those who are trying to find a method that does not increase their estrogen level.

Mind you, this is my conclusion because I have not found research showing that galactogogues (fenugreek and goat's rue) listed as strong phytoestrogens.

In the case of Fenugreek, it is listed as a steroidal saponin - meaning it is a precursor to hormones in the body, not a direct substitute for estrogen (which is what phytoestrogens are). This means that although our body could build estrogen from it, it would not cause the body to increase estrogen beyond its normal limits (assuming of course the body is creating estrogen at normal limits - I'm just saying that Fenugreek would not make the body do something more than it would already do).

Both Fenugreek and Goat's rue can lower blood sugar and this effect is much more pronounced in some people than others. Symptoms of low blood sugar can be headaches and dizziness. Some people can control these symptoms my bringing in sugar when they feel them (hard candy, fruit juice, etc), however it is never good to ignore strong symptoms. No method of NBE no matter how effective is worth damaging your health.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
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What not to take if using Galactogogues:

Fenugreek and Goat's rue both work by increasing prolactin which is why they would not be a good mix with vitex, which lowers prolactin.

If you feel that you need to use vitex in order to control your estrogen dominance, then do that first and when your symptoms seem to be under control then you can stop the vitex and switch to using the galactogogues.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
One common form of NBE contains galactogogues.

There are quite a few herbs that will increase total body estrogen.

As I understand it, phytoestrogen effect on the body is very dose dependent and also very much dependent on the hormonal state of the woman.

Phytoestrogens also come in different potency. Some are much less estrogenic than our body's own estrogen (fennel for example) and some are more potent/estrogenic than what our body produces (red clover for example).

Here are a couple of ways a woman might react with an estrogen increase to phytoestrogens:

Example 1 - if a woman is not producing a lot of estrogen herself, she would probably have a lot of 'vacant' estrogen receptors. Any phytoestrogen used no matter how potent or low potency would raise total body estrogen. Whatever fills up those empty receptors will give her a total greater than what she had.

Example 2 - if a woman is producing a normal amount of estrogen and begins to use a phytoestrogen that is highly potent. Her total body estrogen might increase if the phytoestrogen replaces a spot on the estrogen receptor that was normally occupied by her own lower dose body estrogen.


Now here are a few examples of how a phytoestrogen might lower total body estrogen:

Example 3: - if a woman with normal estrogen begins to take large amounts of a low potency phytoestrogen. She might 'swamp' her estrogen receptors with the phytoestrogen and block her own body's more potent estrogen. (we call this stalling in NBE)

Example 4: - if a woman who is estrogen dominant chooses very low dose phytoestrogens (lignans, like crushed flaxseed) she can fill up her estrogen receptors with the low potency estrogen and block any higher potency estrogen.

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Yes, it is confusing, which is why those who do a lot of research and reading generally get better results.

Also, remember - the idea of NBE is to find out what your body responds to and use the proper amount of it. The unfortunate general consensus that more is better is hardly an appropriate mind set. More can lead to serious unwanted side effects and also could lead to stalling.


waxingmoon

[ellacraig]

Really appreciate that last post. It puts things together in an understandable way.
Id wondered all the above but having to search soo hard in the past id get to the point id get lost in it all and ultimately overwhelmed. Will watch this thread with baited breath

[BlueCoral]

So I'm a genetic male looking for breast growth, and am starting to take PM, fenugreek, and RC. Looking around I've noticed a few other people of like mind also taking things like SP and BC. However, I looked online and various sites claim that SP actually increases testosterone (I would think you'd want to decrease it), and unless you have trouble with hot flashes, BC doesn't do anything? Do you think it's possible to have a decent amount of breast growth without SP and/or BC?

[Lotus]

So I'm a genetic male looking for breast growth, and am starting to take PM, fenugreek, and RC. Looking around I've noticed a few other people of like mind also taking things like SP and BC. However, I looked online and various sites claim that SP actually increases testosterone (I would think you'd want to decrease it), and unless you have trouble with hot flashes, BC doesn't do anything? Do you think it's possible to have a decent amount of breast growth without SP and/or BC?

Hi BlueCoral,

Yes saw palmetto has been reported to increase testosterone. There are health benefits of using SP, but in a NBE program?, I chose to exclude it, one reason is it also inhibits progesterone receptors.

Testosterone (free t) converts to estradiol via aromatase, so why limit T when this is a viable option, DHT is the real enemy to stop breast growth. Inhibit DHT and breast growth will follow. If you want to grow breasts concentrate on the DHT, imo T isn't the problem. I stopped using anti-androgens for the most part, choosing to focus on aromatase (using WP), grew 4 cups, but that's just me and it may not work for everyone, that's why we experiment.

Effects on Testosterone
Preliminary research has found that saw palmetto hinders the conversion process of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone by more than 40 percent. These findings suggest saw palmetto may have anti-androgenic activity, which means this herb can possibly effect male sex hormones, or androgens. This suggests that saw palmetto may increase testosterone levels by inhibiting up-conversion to dihydrotestosterone. While proponents of this herb claim it can affect testosterone levels and other male hormones, a study outlined by Drugs.com found no change in plasma testosterone levels after supplementing for 30 days.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/522054...tosterone/

BC is birth control, RC-red clover, I'd start with 1-estrogenic herb based on experience.

[BlueCoral]

So I'm a genetic male looking for breast growth, and am starting to take PM, fenugreek, and RC. Looking around I've noticed a few other people of like mind also taking things like SP and BC. However, I looked online and various sites claim that SP actually increases testosterone (I would think you'd want to decrease it), and unless you have trouble with hot flashes, BC doesn't do anything? Do you think it's possible to have a decent amount of breast growth without SP and/or BC?

Hi BlueCoral,

Yes saw palmetto has been reported to increase testosterone. There are health benefits of using SP, but in a NBE program?, I chose to exclude it, one reason is it also inhibits progesterone receptors.

Testosterone (free t) converts to estradiol via aromatase, so why limit T when this is a viable option, DHT is the real enemy to stop breast growth. Inhibit DHT and breast growth will follow. If you want to grow breasts concentrate on the DHT, imo T isn't the problem. I stopped using anti-androgens for the most part, choosing to focus on aromatase (using WP), grew 4 cups, but that's just me and it may not work for everyone, that's why we experiment.

Effects on Testosterone
Preliminary research has found that saw palmetto hinders the conversion process of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone by more than 40 percent. These findings suggest saw palmetto may have anti-androgenic activity, which means this herb can possibly effect male sex hormones, or androgens. This suggests that saw palmetto may increase testosterone levels by inhibiting up-conversion to dihydrotestosterone. While proponents of this herb claim it can affect testosterone levels and other male hormones, a study outlined by Drugs.com found no change in plasma testosterone levels after supplementing for 30 days.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/522054...tosterone/

BC is birth control, RC-red clover, I'd start with 1-estrogenic herb based on experience.

So other than the PM, red clover, and fenugreek, what should I be taking? Or are those herbs enough?

[Lotus]

Well there's a number of factors involved in the process before saying what could be of the best approach for you, e.g. age, bmi, diet, overall health, meds you take that can impact absorption of other supplements, etc. For instance, fenugreek can impact the effectiveness of other supplements, RC will compete with PM. High dose PM doesn't work, instead it's just wasting money. Flooding your system with PM or what ever E source you use doesn't get you there any faster, instead, shorter bursts (or duration) of supplementing follows the half-life of steroidal receptors and drug half-life.

Feel free to pm if you'd rather discuss in private.