[GoneGirl]

I think Lotus might have even mentioned PC as a DHT blocker; is that true?

Yes, you can read more about PC at the FAQ subforum:

http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=19889

Clara

[Lotus]

Sorry Clara, just saw your post!

No problem, Lotus, because you clear up an important point for me....

I think your saying that if we prevent T from turning into Dht through 5-ar (5 alpha reductase) it will turn it into E, if so that's correct.

What you are saying here is that it IS possible for a bio-male to increase his estrogen level by using anti-androgens only, if done in such a way as to block the conversion of testosterone into DHT. Aromatase will then convert more of the available T to estrogen. That tells me that taking Spearmint Leaf, which has the effect of binding up free T making in unavailable for use by either 5-alpha reductase or aromatase, is not the best approach to increase your estrogen short of taking an estrogenic herb like PM. Better to take SP, Pygeum or one of the other AAs that target 5-alpha reductace.

Thank you, Lotus, you are a dear.

Clara

Here's something to try with that prior knowledge in tow, take your AA's first before adding your phytoestrogens. Now approximately 20 minutes after the AA's are on board add the phytoestrogens. The thought here is that the E will trick the brain,



High serum-High serum levels of estrogen also trick the brain into thinking that enough testosterone is being produced, further slowing its natural production. This happens when estrogen saturates testosterone receptors in the hypothalamus region of the brain. The saturated hypothalamus then stops sending out a hormone to the pituitary gland to stimulate secretion of luteinizing hormone that the gonads require to produce testosterone. High estrogen can thus shut down the normal testicular production of testosterone. A further complication of excess estrogen is that it increases the body's production of sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG). SHBG binds free testosterone in the blood and makes it unavailable to cell receptor sites. The solution to this problem is to block the conversion of testosterone to estrogen


One more thing to try with your AA's, (which I take but it's in my amino acid supp)

L-Lysine: While L-Lysine is NOT a DHT blocker, it may make DHT blockers more effective. Researchers have found that adding a supplementation of L-Lysine can make drugs like Propecia more effective. Since propecia is a DHT inhibitor, as all the natural products mentioned here, the addition of a L-Lysine supplement can make these products also more effective. Studies has shown that L-Lysine combined with a DHT inhibitor can for example promote hair growth in people suffering from androgenetic alopecia.

A-Typically the average is up to 20 minutes, some sources have at 5-10 minutes while others say 20-30 minutes. Extracts 1 to 4 minutes

Q-What are typical absorption results?

A-For skin application- 60%

A-Liquid- 98%

A-capsule- 10-20%

Q-What is the capsule to extract ratio?

A-20 to 1, meaning it would take 20 capsules to = 1 teaspoon of extract



Q-When is the best time to take an herb?

A-In general herbs are best taken on an empty stomach
♦Research=Read till my eyes bleed!=NBE IQ♦

[GoneGirl]

Here's something to try with that prior knowledge in tow, take your AA's first before adding your phytoestrogens. Now approximately 20 minutes after the AA's are on board add the phytoestrogens. The thought here is that the E will trick the brain,

I'm sorry. What is this accomplishing exactly?

Clara

[Lotus]

Here's something to try with that prior knowledge in tow, take your AA's first before adding your phytoestrogens. Now approximately 20 minutes after the AA's are on board add the phytoestrogens. The thought here is that the E will trick the brain,

I'm sorry. What is this accomplishing exactly?

Clara

For phytoestrogens to have an affinity they have to exert there dominance much like the anti-cancer med tamoxifen does. Think of the lock and key illustration, now to block androgen receptors you take AA's. You still have T in those receptors and AA's as you know are blocking them from converting to Dht. So taking the AA's first, means that it's the first action in the metabolism process, right?

Ok then, now 20 minutes later (the time it takes for oral supp's to metabolize) take the phytoestrogens to exert its affinity and further trick the androgen receptors not to activate and release T.

Taking Lysine is like adding PABA (Decreases breakdown of estrogen in your body so you have more free estrogen) but for androgens (While L-Lysine is NOT a DHT blocker, it may make DHT blockers more effective) this was just a suggestion.

Sorry, must still have some lingering anesthetia for my back procedure today, forget to attach the question,

Q-How long does a capsule take to dissolve?

A-Typically the average is up to 20 minutes, some sources have at 5-10 minutes while others say 20-30 minutes. Extracts 1 to 4 minutes

[tanysquirrel]

perhaps it is all my free floating t,e,e-i-i-o ,but my head is spinning...i started reading from page 1 on through to this page. it has been some time since i as on here, (personal issues).

i had read somewhere that the spearmint helps the sp to work better, not sure if this is true. i did however find that taking sp without spearmint only made me want to have sex .(sorry to be blunt). perhaps is a placibo effect but i do think spearmint is actually clearing the way for the sp. since adding it with sp i have seemingly noticed my breasts a bit more looser than previous and a bit more stretchable such as nipples and such.i am also using pm in a drink form. though it is chalky tasting i add spearmint oil as well as a few droms of wild yam extract. i seem to be tingly down there when aroused now,feelings/pleasure center shifted to surrouning skin instead of the unwanted appendige which seems to be atrophying to my wishes . somewhere else i also read that fenugreek may actually increase testosterone, which surprised me. i was on it to promote lactation. sorry i a ramling. i do have a question: should you/could you take sp,wp,reishi,pm,wy (sp,wp,reishi,spearmint all being anti androegnic,will they contraindicate/work against each other or will they all compound?)

[Lotus]

perhaps it is all my free floating t,e,e-i-i-o ,but my head is spinning...i started reading from page 1 on through to this page. it has been some time since i as on here, (personal issues).

i had read somewhere that the spearmint helps the sp to work better, not sure if this is true.

Welcome back, I've never heard that SP benefits spearmint, I see them compared against each quite often though.

i did however find that taking sp without spearmint only made me want to have sex .(sorry to be blunt). perhaps is a placibo effect but i do think spearmint is actually clearing the way for the sp. since adding it with sp i have seemingly noticed my breasts a bit more looser than previous and a bit more stretchable such as nipples and such.

Ok lol, no problem!, everybody reacts differently, though SP usually is known for tanking libidos. I took SP in the beginning and eliminated it due to the fact it has anti-estrogenic properties.

i am also using pm in a drink form. though it is chalky tasting i add spearmint oil as well as a few droms of wild yam extract. i seem to be tingly down there when aroused now,feelings/pleasure center shifted to surrouning skin instead of the unwanted appendige which seems to be atrophying to my wishes .

Are you saying that you mix bulk PM with different liquids or you're buying it pre-mixed?. One of the ingredients in PM called daidzein can create anti-androgenic effects, Similarly for daidzein and two of its metabolites, equol and O-desmethylangolensin, has a binding affinity to ER[alpha] is found to be 103-104 fold lower than the endogenous estrogen estradiol. So depending on how much you PM you take it could explain the atrophy, much to your dismay.


By modulating androgen receptor coactivators, daidzein may act as a phytoandrogen
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17252558

somewhere else i also read that fenugreek may actually increase testosterone, which surprised me. i was on it to promote lactation. sorry i a ramling. i do have a question: should you/could you take sp,wp,reishi,pm,wy (sp,wp,reishi,spearmint all being anti androegnic,will they contraindicate/work against each other or will they all compound?)

WP and Reishi would be sufficient, wild yam or fenugreek for progesterone and prolactin is ok.

There was small study on fenugreek where they reported over the course of the study, total and bioavailable (“free”) testosterone increased 6.57% and 12.26%, respectively, in the subjects taking fenugreek. Estradiol and DHT levels also increased (26.6% and 6.10%, respectively), though not significantly.

[tanysquirrel]

perhaps it is all my free floating t,e,e-i-i-o ,but my head is spinning...i started reading from page 1 on through to this page. it has been some time since i as on here, (personal issues).

i had read somewhere that the spearmint helps the sp to work better, not sure if this is true.

Welcome back, I've never heard that SP benefits spearmint, I see them compared against each quite often though.

i did however find that taking sp without spearmint only made me want to have sex .(sorry to be blunt). perhaps is a placibo effect but i do think spearmint is actually clearing the way for the sp. since adding it with sp i have seemingly noticed my breasts a bit more looser than previous and a bit more stretchable such as nipples and such.

Ok lol, no problem!, everybody reacts differently, though SP usually is known for tanking libidos. I took SP in the beginning and eliminated it due to the fact it has anti-estrogenic properties.

i am also using pm in a drink form. though it is chalky tasting i add spearmint oil as well as a few droms of wild yam extract. i seem to be tingly down there when aroused now,feelings/pleasure center shifted to surrouning skin instead of the unwanted appendige which seems to be atrophying to my wishes .

Are you saying that you mix bulk PM with different liquids or you're buying it pre-mixed?. One of the ingredients in PM called daidzein can create anti-androgenic effects, Similarly for daidzein and two of its metabolites, equol and O-desmethylangolensin, has a binding affinity to ER[alpha] is found to be 103-104 fold lower than the endogenous estrogen estradiol. So depending on how much you PM you take it could explain the atrophy, much to your dismay.


By modulating androgen receptor coactivators, daidzein may act as a phytoandrogen
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17252558

somewhere else i also read that fenugreek may actually increase testosterone, which surprised me. i was on it to promote lactation. sorry i a ramling. i do have a question: should you/could you take sp,wp,reishi,pm,wy (sp,wp,reishi,spearmint all being anti androegnic,will they contraindicate/work against each other or will they all compound?)

WP and Reishi would be sufficient, wild yam or fenugreek for progesterone and prolactin is ok.

There was small study on fenugreek where they reported over the course of the study, total and bioavailable (“free”) testosterone increased 6.57% and 12.26%, respectively, in the subjects taking fenugreek. Estradiol and DHT levels also increased (26.6% and 6.10%, respectively), though not significantly.

yes i am taking the bulk powdered extract of pm adding it to water then adding the spearmint oil to it and gulping it down.. spearmint flavored chalk taste. the yam extract is a bit bitter but helps balace the minty spearmint oil and the side walk chalk flavor of the pm powder extract. now due to what you said about the twenty minute wait i am doing so. waiting on the pm until after the reishi and spearmint oil and sp. i am sure as you have said this will block the receptors and stuff. i do appreciate all the hard work and effort you have put into clarifying and explaining it to us

[Lotus]

now due to what you said about the twenty minute wait i am doing so. waiting on the pm until after the reishi and spearmint oil and sp. i am sure as you have said this will block the receptors and stuff. i do appreciate all the hard work and effort you have put into clarifying and explaining it to us

Yes, let them do there thing :

For phytoestrogens to have an affinity they have to exert there dominance much like the anti-cancer med tamoxifen does. Think of the lock and key illustration, now to block androgen receptors you take AA's. You still have T in those receptors and AA's as you know are blocking them from converting to Dht. So taking the AA's first, means that it's the first action in the metabolism process, right?


Ok then, now 20 minutes later (the time it takes for oral supp's to metabolize) take the phytoestrogens to exert its affinity and further trick the androgen receptors not to activate and release T.

Good luck,
Lotus

[tanysquirrel]

when should i take calcium supplement, with aa's or with the pm?and should i try dropping the pm all together for now? or continue?

[AlexisM]

Squirrel,

I have a bottle of spearmint oil and it clearly warns "for external use only." Do you have something different?