[MichelleM]

Recently, a number of girls who thought they were probably "tweeners" have discovered they weren't after all and are proceeding in the direction of full transition (or at least that neighborhood ), or want to but can't right now.

Again, warnings have been posted to beware the pink fog, that you may feel differently about things after a while.

What I'm wondering about is roughly how many folks who thought they were "tweeners" originally still feel that way after taking PM for a while, say 6 months or so? Related to that, if you've taken PM for a significant time without feeling any such twinges, what's the likelihood of being a tweener permanently?

Thanks!

Michelle

[Lenneth]

Honestly cant say either way with 100% certainty right now....

[AnnieBL]

I have a feeling that I have recently posted in more detail something similar to what follows. If so , apologies for the repetition.

Ten years or more ago, I was seriously researching transition, but concluded at the time that it was not in my circumstances a practical proposition. I gradually set my sights much lower, ended up with NBE and eventually ended up at BN. On the basis of what I learned here, I concluded that I was a 'tweenie', but recent developments, probably influenced by PM, have opened a wider vista likely leading to at least some significant degree of transition. My recent impression is that a majority of 'tweeners' ultimately emerge from the pink fog to find or refind that they have TS leanings.

[GoneGirl]

Michelle, as you know, I was one who thought I was an 'in betweener', or 'tweenie' as you say. I started out thinking I was 70/30 male to female when I started PM. That changed to 60/40, and after 6 months of PM, it became 50/50. After reading an article by gender therapist Dr. Carl Bushong, I've changed my views about gender makeup.

Bushong describes gender makeup in terms of 5 semi-independent dimensions:

1) Genetic Gender
2) Physical Gender
3) Brain Gender
4) Brain Sex
5) Gender Identity

Virtual all of us here are male in our genetic and physical genders, but significantly female in one or more of the last three dimensions. How much female determines our need to express those feminine attributes.

Personally, I am pure male in dimensions 1, 2 & 3, but very much female in dimensions 4 and 5. Through ignorance of gender issues throughout most of my life, and having been conditioned to live as a male which was possible because of my male brain gender, I've coped with gender dysphoria as far back as I can remember.

The dysphoria was mainly the result of testosterone upsetting my female sexual identity, dimension 4. When I dropped my T by taking PM, all my sexual stress, anxiety, compulsions disappeared within a few weeks. It was heaven. I felt great. I felt little desire to be a woman, hoped for minimal breast growth, and sought the minimum PM dosage to maintain these mental benefits.

It didn't work the way I hoped it would. The reason being, I'm convinced, is that I have a strong female gender identity. It's been held in check all these years, but when I started taking estrogen (PM) it came alive. It has become very much a part of who I am today. I consider myself a secondary transsexual if I try to put myself into Bushong's boxes (sorry, Sammie).

Since my brain sex (#4) is also strongly female, I'm concerned about my sexual orientation shifting from attraction to women to attraction to men. I'm hoping, for the sake of my marriage, that I continue to be attracted to, and sexually aroused by, women, but I know many TSs change orientation at some point. My wife and I have discussed this possibility, in case it should present itself. My journey is far from over.

I would be very cautious about declaring yourself a 'tweenie' early in your experimentation with HRT. HRT has a mind altering power that, once unleashed, cannot easily be constrained.

My personal advice to all those considering taking PM for mental benefits, is to think about the 'worst' case scenario -- that it could very well lead to an overpowering desire to transition to womanhood. Not satisfying that desire, due to personal circumstances, will lead to another aspect of gender dysphoria that is equally disruptive of mental peace and well-being.

I know everyone is different. My experience is just that, my experience. But, I'm very sure that you cannot know what the true nature of your gender identity is at the outset. It is a journey of self-discovery.

Hugs,

Clara

[flamesabers]

Hello Michelle,

When you first said tweener in the other thread, the first thought that came to my mind is teenager.

In regards to why some tweeners go on to full transition, I think there are two commonly proposed explanations. The first is pm can radically change one's brain beyond the dissipation of GD. The second is the tweeners who went on to transition were never tweeners in the first place. I'm not a fan of either explanation. The first I think suggests the idea that pm can act as a sort of mind-control agent. The second reeks of the "No true Scotsman" fallacy.

I've been taking pm for about 2.5 years now. I still consider myself to be a "betweener" or have an androgynous gender identity as I call it. When I went off of pm earlier this year, I concluded it would be best to get back on it. A significant reason why I consider myself to be a tweener is because I think it's my nature to test, bend and break the rules and expectations hoisted onto a particular gender identity. If I was a gg, I think I would still have transgender feelings to some extent. In contrast, I suspect those who are transitioning or want to, would be overjoyed if they could be a gg instead of a bio-male.

[Samantha Rogers]

Well, I am not sure...haha...At one time I would have said in between forever. And that still may happen. A lot of variables are in play, not least the relationship with my wife and family. I can say this...at one time regardless of those things I would never have considered anything but permanent in between. Now, were it not for those things I would not consider anything but full transition, 24/7 with full SRS.
That is huge.
Sigh
Life, the longer we live, becomes so complicated and so full of compromise.
And then...
...there always exists the chance I may not be able to live with the compromises at some point, and then it changes to a matter of very hard choices.
It is never easy is it?
Sorry, Michelle. You probably wanted a simple answer didnt you?
Lol
Hugs
Sammie

[RobinMurphy]

When I first started lurking on this board there was talk about the pink fog and I would read that people got caught up in the pink fog and left the forum to transition. Recently it has surprised me how many people started HRT. When I became somewhat jealous of the people starting HRT it kind of called into question where is all of this going. So I have gone from I would never transition to my current thought is that I should go to SCC and think about it, and that I could develop a long term plan to transition. Saw EvaMarie's pictures of her before and after yesterday and that makes me want to try. I do not know if PM is going to cause to want to transition, but I think someone should think everthing through before starting PM.

[GoneGirl]

The ultimate betweener?



Clara

[SarahSchilling]

I started out over 2 years ago just wanting to grow boobs. I knew I was TG from an early age(as early as I can remember), but didn't think it was practical to transition.

At first, pm made me feel amazing...like I was seeing the world in color for the first time. It really made me a happier, more productive person. I thought I was going to be fine just taking it from then on, but after about 6-8 months I began to feel extremely upset by the prospect of having to pretend to be a guy for the rest of my life. Like why the fuck am I prepared to live like that? I'm going to regret it if I don't at least try to be who I've always truly been.

So yeah, now I live as a woman mostly. It's fun. I smile a lot.

Being somewhat passable makes things easier though, I'm sure. People say I'm an inspiration to them on here, and while this does take courage, I always think that there are people who need so much more of it to find their happiness.

I hope all of you find what you are looking for.

Exactly what that is depends more on the person than it does the herbs or drugs, but these substances can both calm and amplify existing feelings. Take nothing for granted!

[AnnieBL]

So yeah, now I live as a woman mostly. It's fun. I smile a lot.

And what a smile it is. Mind you, I'm feeling pretty happy these days, and Annie's outing last week was so incredibly liberating that I'm still reeling from it. I still don't believe that 'clothes maketh the (wo)man', only that the woman does need clothes.