[Lotus]

when should i take calcium supplement, with aa's or with the pm?and should i try dropping the pm all together for now? or continue?

Manufactures recommend taking calcium at the time time with PM, why?. One study reported this:

long-term treatment with 1,000 mg/day of PM decreases serum PTH and calcium levels in laboratory animals

However taking calcium can affect the absorption of other supplements and medications. The quality of the calcium supplement is also important, some cheap products take 6-8 hours to dissolve (capsules dissolve better than tablets).

Calcium
http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Calcium...fessional/

Calcium interactions http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-781-CALCIUM.aspx?activeIngredientId=781&activeIngredientName=CALCIUM&source=2

Always check for supplement interactions, (WebMD is a great resources for that).

Supplement interactions
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=19869

Other manufacture statements of PM warn against this:

Do not use any fat blocking medicines while you are take PME. It have adverse effect to alternative natural treatment and pueraria mirifica will not absorb 100% to your body.

Do not take more pueraria mirifica as recommended. Overdosing pueraria mirifica may increase bloodflow and interrupt your sleep.

lotus; is there or could there be a pre-cursor for converstion of the diosgenin? how do they do it in the lab?

I think Isabelle's explanation (definition) clearly defines your question.

Wild yam is a 16α-hydroxyestrone blocker: http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.ph...p#pid30744 open the link to the steroidogenesis map. 16α-hydroxyestrone is off the map at bottom right. It is one of the two metabolites of natural estrogens. Wild yam may keep your estrogens levels up, by not letting them leak away to 16α-hydroxyestrone. But it's not watertight, because your natural estrogens will still leak away to the other metabolite, 2-hydroxyestrone.

Well, humans lack the enzyme to convert diosgenin into progesterone. Some WY supplements actually contain synthetic progesterone (from the manufacture and it's not regulated), so when people suggest that WY doesn't contain progesterone, it's a pretty reckless assumption.

How do they convert diosgenin in a lab?, from what I understand it's a lengthy process.

What was the OP about?, I forgot already.

For more on progesterone try here:

The Progesterone Thread....
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=21243

[spanky (aka Lola)]

There was small study on fenugreek where they reported over the course of the study, total and bioavailable (“free”) testosterone increased 6.57% and 12.26%, respectively, in the subjects taking fenugreek. Estradiol and DHT levels also increased (26.6% and 6.10%, respectively), though not significantly.

That is interesting. I recall that when I got started, I took fairly large amounts of fenugreek. After a couple of months, I noticed a lot of scalp hair falling out. I stopped the fenugreek and shifted to PM, and the hair loss essentially stopped.

[Candace]

I'll give you an example of a similar process and it involves Nettle Root, although the process of NR can be confusing it works by increasing Free T and Estrogen at the same time. Take for instance this explanation of Nettle Roots action:

Nettle root can interfere with or block a number these hormone-related chemical processes in the body that are implicated in the development of BPH. In clinical research, nettle has demonstrated the ability to stop the conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (by inhibiting aromatase, an enzyme required for the conversion), as well as to directly bind to SHBG itself - thereby preventing SHBG from binding to other hormones. Other research also reveals that nettles can prevent SHBG that has already bound to a hormone from attaching to the receptor sites on the prostate, as well as to decrease the production of estrogens (estradiol and estrone) by inhibiting an enzyme required for their production. The effect of nettle root on dihydrotestosterone (DHT) levels has also made it a treatment for hair loss, as male pattern balding has often been linked to an excess of DHT, as has hair loss in women too.

Nettle root extract (and the fancy purified DVTHF version) didn't have much of an effect on me, while tribulus did. Here's the bloodwork. (There are also results for the ineffective "aromatase inhibitors" Erase, Formadrol, and Triazole. Anastrozole is interesting: at a 2 tab/wk dose that stressed my liver, it raised T and lowered E. At a safe dose all it does is lower E.)

Baseline.....................................T 496 FT 10.1 E 33
250 mg nettle root extract............T 409 FT 10.6 E 38
400 mg DVTHF............................T 405 FT 12.3 E 38
1 g tribulus, 800 mg DVTHF..........T 560 FT 11.6 E 42
1 g tribulus, chasteberry, 2xErase..T 580 FT 11.9 E 48
1 g tribulus, 2 letrozole/wk............T 940 FT 22.7 E 29
1 g tribulus, 2 anastrozole/wk.......T 785 FT 18.1 E 23
1 g tribulus, 1 anastrozole/wk.......T 600 FT 9.2 E 25
1 g tribulus, 4xFormadrol..............T 570 FT 9.8 E 48
1 g tribulus, 4xTriazole.................T 566 FT 9.7 E 55

[Lotus]

I'll give you an example of a similar process and it involves Nettle Root, although the process of NR can be confusing it works by increasing Free T and Estrogen at the same time. Take for instance this explanation of Nettle Roots action:

Nettle root can interfere with or block a number these hormone-related chemical processes in the body that are implicated in the development of BPH. In clinical research, nettle has demonstrated the ability to stop the conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (by inhibiting aromatase, an enzyme required for the conversion), as well as to directly bind to SHBG itself - thereby preventing SHBG from binding to other hormones. Other research also reveals that nettles can prevent SHBG that has already bound to a hormone from attaching to the receptor sites on the prostate, as well as to decrease the production of estrogens (estradiol and estrone) by inhibiting an enzyme required for their production. The effect of nettle root on dihydrotestosterone (DHT) levels has also made it a treatment for hair loss, as male pattern balding has often been linked to an excess of DHT, as has hair loss in women too.

Nettle root extract (and the fancy purified DVTHF version) didn't have much of an effect on me, while tribulus did. Here's the bloodwork. (There are also results for the ineffective "aromatase inhibitors" Erase, Formadrol, and Triazole. Anastrozole is interesting: at a 2 tab/wk dose that stressed my liver, it raised T and lowered E. At a safe dose all it does is lower E.)

Baseline.....................................T 496 FT 10.1 E 33
250 mg nettle root extract............T 409 FT 10.6 E 38
400 mg DVTHF............................T 405 FT 12.3 E 38
1 g tribulus, 800 mg DVTHF..........T 560 FT 11.6 E 42
1 g tribulus, chasteberry, 2xErase..T 580 FT 11.9 E 48
1 g tribulus, 2 letrozole/wk............T 940 FT 22.7 E 29
1 g tribulus, 2 anastrozole/wk.......T 785 FT 18.1 E 23
1 g tribulus, 1 anastrozole/wk.......T 600 FT 9.2 E 25
1 g tribulus, 4xFormadrol..............T 570 FT 9.8 E 48
1 g tribulus, 4xTriazole.................T 566 FT 9.7 E 55

Candace,
Btw, thank you for the contributions to NBE research, (please share your interest in NBE).

That's a spike in total T from letrozole?
1 g tribulus, 2 letrozole/wk............T 940 FT 22.7 E 29

An aromatase booster would've been handy for the increased circulating T, lol. Check this one out.

One letrozole pill a week quadruples testosterone level
http://www.ergo-log.com/letrozole.html


Testosterone circulates in the blood 98% bound to protein. In women, approximately 66% of the binding is to the high-affinity sex hormone binding globulin. The remaining 34% is bound weakly to albumin. (Thats lost potential)

Men produce 3mg to 10mg of T per day, and of that 4% gets converted to DHT and .02% is converted to estrogen, (estradiol)
Women produce 0.5 mg of testosterone daily


Ps. Have you ever heard of PROGESTERONE AND PROLACTIN INDUCED GYNECOMASTIA?

[Candace]

Yep, those letrozole numbers are no typo. But it came with side effects: 10 point increase in blood sugar, 10 pounds belly fat gain in two months (it eventually came off when I ditched the drug), and elevated liver enzymes.

I have no knowledge of progesterone and prolactin induced gynecomastia. Figure 4 shows that estrogen is involved in all the pre-pregnancy developments, so I doubt they can do it on their own.

[undecided]

Squirrel,

I have a bottle of spearmint oil and it clearly warns "for external use only." Do you have something different?

I have the same problem from my local heath food supplier, The spearmint oil is not food grade, hence not recommended for oral consumption. I did read that you should be able to replace that with a peppermint extract,

[AlexisM]

Squirrel,

I have a bottle of spearmint oil and it clearly warns "for external use only." Do you have something different?

Janet Doe wrote:
I have the same problem from my local heath food supplier, The spearmint oil is not food grade, hence not recommended for oral consumption. I did read that you should be able to replace that with a peppermint extract,

I have been applying spearmint oil topically now for a few weeks as a massage oil on the breasts. I think it's having a really positive effect. It produces a warm and tingling sensation. I haven't found anyone else using spearmint oil in this way, yet. It's hard to tell the impact of any one thing when you are using a cornucopia of stuff.

[Lotus]

Squirrel,

I have a bottle of spearmint oil and it clearly warns "for external use only." Do you have something different?

Janet Doe wrote:
I have the same problem from my local heath food supplier, The spearmint oil is not food grade, hence not recommended for oral consumption. I did read that you should be able to replace that with a peppermint extract,

I have been applying spearmint oil topically now for a few weeks as a massage oil on the breasts. I think it's having a really positive effect. It produces a warm and tingling sensation. I haven't found anyone else using spearmint oil in this way, yet. It's hard to tell the impact of any one thing when you are using a cornucopia of stuff.

I'm confused on what the positive NBE benefits of applying spearmint oil to the breasts would produce other than a tingly (mentha) sensation , what target tissues/receptors are being effected?.

[Lotus]

Squirrel,

I have a bottle of spearmint oil and it clearly warns "for external use only." Do you have something different?

Janet Doe wrote:
I have the same problem from my local heath food supplier, The spearmint oil is not food grade, hence not recommended for oral consumption. I did read that you should be able to replace that with a peppermint extract,

I have been applying spearmint oil topically now for a few weeks as a massage oil on the breasts. I think it's having a really positive effect. It produces a warm and tingling sensation. I haven't found anyone else using spearmint oil in this way, yet. It's hard to tell the impact of any one thing when you are using a cornucopia of stuff.

I'm confused on what the positive NBE benefits of applying spearmint oil to the breasts would produce other than a tingly (mentha) sensation , what target tissues/receptors are being effected?.

Menthol toxicity

Spearmint oil also contains menthol but in much lower concentrations. A teaspoon of oil with a high level of menthol can be lethal to a healthy adult. Menthol lowers blood pressure, causes convulsions and spasms, and can induce miscarriages.
This oil should be diluted so it can be used.

The essential oil of plants containing menthol can dramatically lower blood pressure in young children causing them cardiac depression. Therefore these oils are not suitable for children, even used topically as an ointment or aspirated through the nose . ( By inhaling the vapors of menthol, the children can suffer suffocation because of the spasm of the larynx)


Internal use of mints oils can cause convulsions or cramps . Applied internally, even diluted, can cause sleep problems or nervousness in some sensible people.


Although mint leaves, used in therapeutic amounts, should generally not to be toxic. It should not be used with people with hiatal hernia since it may increase heartburn. The ability of menthol to relax the esophageal valve can worsen acid reflux. Nor should these plants be used if the patient is affected from gallstones.


Essential oils containing menthol should never be administered to pregnant or breastfeeding women. Menthol has abortive properties and breastfeeding women can transfer its properties to the baby through the milk. It is neither advised to take mint leaves preparations in these latter cases.


People suffering from liver diseases should abstain taking mint essential oil preparations. All the same for people with some intestine disorders, such as ulcerative colitis, Crohn's disease or irritable bowel syndrome. It is neither recommended for patients who suffer from neurological diseases, such as Parkinson's disease.


Used diluted externally on the skin, essential oil containing menthol can produce eczema, redness, blisters, or headaches because it is absorbed through the skin. In case of using essential oil of mints, if you suffer any adverse reaction, it is better for you to leave the treatment immediately.

[AlexisM]

Here you go:

Menthol is included in many products for a variety of reasons. These include:

In nonprescription products for short-term relief of minor sore throat and minor mouth or throat irritation.
Examples: lip balms and cough medicines.
As an antipruritic to reduce itching.
As a topical analgesic, it is used to relieve minor aches and pains, such as muscle cramps, sprains, headaches and similar conditions, alone or combined with chemicals such as camphor, eucalyptus oil or capsaicin. In Europe, it tends to appear as a gel or a cream, while in the U.S., patches and body sleeves are very frequently used.
Examples: Tiger Balm, or IcyHot patches or knee/elbow sleeves.
In decongestants for chest and sinuses (cream, patch or nose inhaler).
Examples: Vicks VapoRub, Mentholatum, vapoRem.
In certain medications used to treat sunburns, as it provides a cooling sensation (then often associated with aloe).
In aftershave products to relieve razor burn.
As a smoking tobacco additive in some cigarette brands, for flavor, and to reduce throat and sinus irritation sometimes caused by smoking.
Commonly used in oral hygiene products and bad-breath remedies, such as mouthwash, toothpaste, mouth and tongue-spray, and more generally as a food flavor agent; e.g., in chewing gum, candy.
In a soda to be mixed with water it is used to obtain a very low alcohol drink or pure (brand Ricqlès which contains 80% alcohol in France); the alcohol is also used to alleviate nausea, in particular motion sickness, by pouring a few drops on a lump of sugar.
As a pesticide against tracheal mites of honey bees.
In perfumery, menthol is used to prepare menthyl esters to emphasize floral notes (especially rose).
In first aid products such as "mineral ice" to produce a cooling effect as a substitute for real ice in the absence of water or electricity (pouch, body patch/sleeve or cream).
In various patches ranging from fever-reducing patches applied to children's foreheads to "foot patches" to relieve numerous ailments (the latter being much more frequent and elaborate in Asia, especially Japan: some varieties use "functional protrusions", or small bumps to massage ones feet as well as soothing them and cooling them down).
In some beauty products such as hair conditioners, based on natural ingredients (e.g., St. Ives).
As an antispasmodic and smooth muscle relaxant in upper gastrointestinal endoscopy.[11]
In organic chemistry, menthol is used as a chiral auxiliary in asymmetric synthesis. For example, sulfinate esters made from sulfinyl chlorides and menthol can be used to make enantiomerically pure sulfoxides by reaction with organolithium reagents or Grignard reagents. Menthol reacts with chiral carboxylic acids to give diastereomic menthyl esters, which are useful for chiral resolution.
____________________________________________________________________
The toxicity claims seem alarmist in the least, especially in light of the small amount of menthol contained in the application of a few drops of spearmint oil.

I suppose you could apply the spearmint oil to the bottom of your feet. Wherever you apply it, it will get absorbed. If you apply it to your boobs, you get the benefit of a breast massage.

The essence of my question was the effectiveness of this method of application of spearmint and whether anyone has any experience with it.