[sfem]

I have had that twitching most of my life. I can tell you for certain that PM makes it worse in my case after more than 4 years on PM. I also very strongly suspect it to be responsible for my severe leg pain when driving for long hauls, and likely was either the cause or trigger for my mild high blood pressure and toe/ball of foot swelling and pain. The other major effect was the growth of boobies.

I think it sums up something like this: When you change something, things change.

I still take PM, but I never increase the dosage anymore, and I take regular breaks from it to minimize the assorted pains and twitching. My biggest concern about it these days is suspicion that it may have negative circulatory system effects over the long term. I worry some about the possible cardiovascular effects and how similar they might be to the cardiovascular effects I have heard about related to HRT.

[pom19]

Thanks sfem for this info. I wish you could put it in other threads so anyone that takes PM will know. <3 POM

[Misty0732]

I have had that twitching most of my life. I can tell you for certain that PM makes it worse in my case after more than 4 years on PM. I also very strongly suspect it to be responsible for my severe leg pain when driving for long hauls, and likely was either the cause or trigger for my mild high blood pressure and toe/ball of foot swelling and pain. The other major effect was the growth of boobies.

Wow, I'm sorry to hear that! The fasciculations drive me absolutely batty. I have discovered that mild compression (compression stockings or support panty-hose) definitely helps.

Your severe leg pain may be a different issue, however. I had back surgery in December 2013 for spinal stenosis (which caused severe leg pain for me). The pain is now completely gone. If you have severe leg pain after sitting for several hours that could indicate a herniated or bulging disk, or perhaps a synovial cyst that is irritated by extended bending at the waist. If I were you I would visit a specialist (neurologist or neurosurgeon) and see if you can get an MRI and look for structural issues in your lower spine.

My fasciculations started between 1.5 years and 2 years ago. I started PM 2 years ago (almost exactly). I had always just assumed that the fasciculations were caused by my back issues and was very disappointed when they persisted after the surgery. I think that I described them incorrectly to my doctor (I called them spasms, which they really aren't). I very nearly scheduled another and much more invasive back surgery because of them. That probably would have been a disaster and completely unnecessary. I'm visiting my neurosurgeon on January 13 and will show him the video... I suspect he'll confirm it's unlikely related to my spinal problems.

I still take PM, but I never increase the dosage anymore, and I take regular breaks from it to minimize the assorted pains and twitching.

Very good advice. Taking into consideration the research posted by Lotus and your experiences, I doubt I'll every exceed 500 mg/day again. I'll just have to deal with the heightened GD, if it occurs.

My biggest concern about it these days is suspicion that it may have negative circulatory system effects over the long term. I worry some about the possible cardiovascular effects and how similar they might be to the cardiovascular effects I have heard about related to HRT.

That is concerning. I used to work out regularly (I was an avid runner and weight lifter) but my back injuries have sidelined me for the last 2.5 years or so. I'm not supposed to run anymore, but we have a professional quality elliptical trainer that gives me the same benefit w/o the impact. I have just started on it again, about a month ago. I'm sure that the exertion is exacerbating the fasciculations (as most that have BFS state that exercise does so) but I am determined to remain healthy. Regular aerobic exercise does wonders for the circulatory system.

Misty

[pom19]

Misty, there are other herbs, nutritions, and exercises that can make up for taking care of GD. That's what I've been doing and saying all along. <3 POM

[hannah]

Thanks sfem for this info. I wish you could put it in other threads so anyone that takes PM will know. <3 POM

Usefull info indeed too know. Now reading this I'll deff start at a low dose and maybe combine it with other herbs. I have calve twisting muscles in my legs as well. And under my armpit towards my breast some twisting. Thanks for sharing ts.

[pom19]

Above all honor & protect your temple (Body) from impurities. <3 POM

[Lotus]

Here's an interesting study,

Studies in male-to-female transsexuals have shown that both flow-mediated and nitroglycerin-induced vasodilations in the brachial artery are enhanced compared with control men, suggesting that high-dose estrogen treatment enhances vascular reactivity in genetic males.

Low-Dose Estrogen Supplementation Improves Vascular Function in Hypogonadal Men
http://hyper.ahajournals.org/content/38/5/1011.full

There might be a correlation to vasoconstriction and increased levels of estradiol, (more so in genetic males). PM is the closest to E2 by as much as 25%, so when dosages exceed the normal amounts, one has to associate the elevated risk in comparison.

A few other things to consider in vasoconstriction, Calcium supplementation is advised by some of the manufacturers of PM, which when doing so will increase some cardiovascular events. Calcium is poorly absorbed, so it stands to reason as we increase the dosage of PM, calcium increases too right?, well, not so fast.

Cardiovascular impact
A study investigating the effects of personal calcium supplement use on cardiovascular risk in the Women’s Health Initiative Calcium/Vitamin D Supplementation Study (WHI CaD Study) found a modestly increased risk of cardiovascular events, particularly myocardial infarction in postmenopausal women. A broad recommendation of calcium/vitamin D supplements is therefore not warranted.[48] In contrast, the authors of a 2013 literature review concluded that the benefits of calcium supplementation, such as on bone health, appear to outweigh any risk calcium supplementation may theoretically pose to the cardiovascular health.[49]
http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium

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It does seem possible that all this has an effect on fasciculations, I ran into the same thing with intense ankle and shine (bone) pain while on increased dosages of PM. Misty, we have a lot in common from back surgery to age lol, years ago I started to get what was called myoclonus (myoclonic jerks) or muscle fascicultactions. I attributed this to some of the meds I was on (neurontin) and fibromyalgia, but I think it went further than that.

I also believe it was from caffeine, partially hydrogenated oils (non-dairy creamers), stress, lack of excessive, and an overload of meds/supplements. The way out is (imo) a good ratio of omega 3's and 6's, fruits, veggies, greens etc. Some diets come close, the Mediterranean Diet comes to mind, although I would exclude a few things.

At our age we (genetic males) produce more estrogen than post-menopausal women, E1 to be exact. Yeah, it's a slow-go in terms of wanting fast NBE results or even control of GID, but factor in all the daily xeno's and boom, we're already estro dominate by then. PM needs a metabolic activation to be of any benefit, so even at a low dose it should do its job, and as the study pointed out, we have somewhere between 20- to 80,000 E receptors per cell, not all gets activated. And to talk about receptor sensitivity?, well lol, I won't clog up the thread or those receptors.

[pom19]

Thanks Lotus. POM

[Misty0732]

Misty, there are other herbs, nutritions, and exercises that can make up for taking care of GD. That's what I've been doing and saying all long.

I've tried other NBE herbs with no success (especially concerning the GD). I used Fenugreek, SP, RC, Maca, and Fennel, none of which helped. Did you have others in mind?

Thanks...

Misty

[pom19]

Misty, there are other herbs, nutritions, and exercises that can make up for taking care of GD. That's what I've been doing and saying all along.

I've tried other NBE herbs with no success (especially concerning the GD). I used Fenugreek, SP, RC, Maca, and Fennel, none of which helped. Did you have others in mind?
Thanks...
Misty

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Yes, Reishi, WP, and flaxseed oil or milled. Again exercise will tune your body for a better health and feeling. If for some reason you do not exercise, then walk half an hour a day.