B.Rose

That's an interesting approach, and thanks for sharing, how long have you been doing it?, have you had any results so far? or pics to share?.

I have been on Triptorelin for 18 months and I am due for GRS in the summer. As for pics, I do not have any.

How does your endo approach target tissues?, is oral E or transdermals prescribed?. I found some studies that Estradiol (only) was administered without androgens, which they showed was effective in results compared to that of the control group that had AA's administrated.

My endo, one of the world's most experienced (several thousand trans patients) simply adjusts my E dosages until they are within the upper-median female range. Once that is done my body's biochemistry acts like a natal womans because of the T suppression. To force T down they used to use very high dosages of E but this can cause clotting. Using Triptorelin drops T in two weeks, in my case from 10nmol/L to the range 1.0 - 1.6 nmol/L. This is much, much safer than overloading on E.

On the GnRh agonists approach, did you get an additional surge of T (flare up?). The fda has a warning posted about Triptorelin although its also administrated for GID too, other conditions too (although the costs appear very high). Insurance companies regard this as experimental, which most likely adds to the cost.

There was an initial flare which is usually suppressed by a standard AA such as Cyproterone or Spiro (usually Cypro in the UK). The injection is a 13 week life so every 12 weeks I get a new one to keep the coverage up and prevent any flare up. It has worked very well. In terms of cost I just pay an £8.05 prescription charge.

Clara, that's not good odds, I wonder what the NBE stats would be. So that means "roughly" up to 60% don't make it to a C-cup?, assuming having B-cups wouldnt be adequate, I dunno.

The reason transwomen rarely make it past B cups is because teenage girls have growth hormone assisting. Most transwomen are past their early teens and many are past their 20s so growth hormone is minimal and therefore contributes little or nothing to boobage.

My endo also conducted a statistical study of trans Breast Augmentation (BA) and although the numbers in the study were too low to be definitive, they suggested that people on Spiro were two or three times more likely to undergo BA. There have been reports in the literature that spiro interferes with boob growth (causing duct and lobule fusion) and with many, many transwomen using it because it is cheap and easily obtainable, that may be another reason for the A/B cup effect.

In my own case I am an A+ / B- depending on the bra - 36B or 38A (I need a 37" band) but that is good enough. I will probably grow some more, but my transition is not about boobage so what I have is fine.

Thanks B.Rose,

Imo, if I could get the curves and achieve a B-cup I'd be happy too. Here's something that's confused me about hormone tests, silva tests are used for testing free (availabe) hormones levels, and serum tests checks for overall level and some free levels. The only ones I'd be concerned with are the free levels. Now here's the confusion: we know free testosterone is the true indicator whats available to bind to receptors, same holds true for estrogens, which there is about 30 identified, but it's mainly estrone E1, estradiol E2, estriol E3 we're concerned about.

So why isn't "free estrogen levels tested"?, (we need to start asking why).

In plasma, estradiol is largely bound to sex hormone-binding globulin, also to albumin. Only a fraction of 2.21% (+/- 0.04%) is free and biologically active, the percentage remaining constant throughout the menstrual cycle. (GM's pursuing NBE should be somewhere close to female E levels), otherwise males only produce .04% of E daily.

Myself, I'd want to know my free estrogen levels, just like I want to know my free T level. Either way 2-5% availble hormones is a big deal, those who have less than that will struggle to achieve the goals they have set. It will also explain if current NBE/HRT programs are reflective of meds/supplements.

And if it where me and I didn't see results with my hrt program I'd demand to know my free levels, it may not be covered though. On NBE levels?, well you can ask for it but some insurances won't conver the expense as well, then it's out of pocket. Now if your doing it the right way labs are monitored, for NBE it would be advisable to get tested when you can afford too.

Thanks B.Rose,

Imo, if I could get the curves and achieve a B-cup I'd be happy too.

:-)

.... for estrogens, which there is about 30 identified, but it's mainly estrone E1, estradiol E2, estriol E3 we're concerned about.

Only these three are common and E2 is 80 times more effective than E3 and about 3 times more effective than E1 so usually only E2 gets measured.

So why isn't "free estrogen levels tested"?, (we need to start asking why).

...

those who have less than that will struggle to achieve the goals they have set. It will also explain if current NBE/HRT programs are reflective of meds/supplements.

And if it where me and I didn't see results with my hrt program I'd demand to know my free levels,

Whilst levels do count, the ultimate determining factor is your biology. There are women out there who have plenty of hormones at the right levels and no boobs. The reason is that they lack sufficient quantities of estrogen receptors or those receptors are somwhat insensitive. I have a few natal female friends who have smaller breast than me. The original reason for this forum was to help women who have smaller than average breasts.

Neither NBE nor HRT guarantees large or even average breasts.

The reason transwomen rarely make it past B cups is because teenage girls have growth hormone assisting. Most transwomen are past their early teens and many are past their 20s so growth hormone is minimal and therefore contributes little or nothing to boobage.

So would adding some kind of growth hormone to the mix enhance the growth? I'm sure this has been asked before but I can't recall anyone stating they are taking anything in this area.

I did some research on HGH (Human Growth Hormone) and there are some issues around it, mainly that it is virtually impossible to buy online (as it is apparently against some international level law or another to do so) and it is expensive as all get out. The few sources for supposed HGH I found were in the $500.00 range and at least for me, that puts it WAY out of my price range even if what I got was actually HGH and not some fake stuff that risks killing you (and there is a LOT of fake stuff out there).

In my opinion it is too expensive and too risky to attempt to purchase because there are no real guarantees what you are getting is the real deal. Now.. if we can find an herb that promotes production of HGH. we might just be in business.

~Elain

I did some research on HGH (Human Growth Hormone) and there are some issues around it, mainly that it is virtually impossible to buy online (as it is apparently against some international level law or another to do so) and it is expensive as all get out. The few sources for supposed HGH I found were in the $500.00 range and at least for me, that puts it WAY out of my price range even if what I got was actually HGH and not some fake stuff that risks killing you (and there is a LOT of fake stuff out there).

HGH also has to be administered intravenously and has a very short shelf-life. It simply isn't practical to try and introduce it artificially for most people.

In my opinion it is too expensive and too risky to attempt to purchase because there are no real guarantees what you are getting is the real deal. Now.. if we can find an herb that promotes production of HGH. we might just be in business.

There are some (proven) things you can do to boost HGH. One is High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT). It's tough training, though, and not for those who aren't fully committed.

Another, easier method is intermittent fasting. Basically all this is is going approximately 22 to 23 hours without eating (for instance, eat dinner and then fast until dinnertime the next day).

Misty

I did some research on HGH (Human Growth Hormone) and there are some issues around it, mainly that it is virtually impossible to buy online (as it is apparently against some international level law or another to do so) and it is expensive as all get out. The few sources for supposed HGH I found were in the $500.00 range and at least for me, that puts it WAY out of my price range even if what I got was actually HGH and not some fake stuff that risks killing you (and there is a LOT of fake stuff out there).

HGH also has to be administered intravenously and has a very short shelf-life. It simply isn't practical to try and introduce it artificially for most people.

In my opinion it is too expensive and too risky to attempt to purchase because there are no real guarantees what you are getting is the real deal. Now.. if we can find an herb that promotes production of HGH. we might just be in business.

There are some (proven) things you can do to boost HGH. One is High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT). It's tough training, though, and not for those who aren't fully committed.

Another, easier method is intermittent fasting. Basically all this is is going approximately 22 to 23 hours without eating (for instance, eat dinner and then fast until dinnertime the next day).

Misty

I have the intermittent fasting thing down pat. I frequently forget to eat at all and may go 2-3 days before I remember to eat something. I don't have a natural hunger urge so not feeling hungry ever.. I.. forget to eat XD.

~Elain

For growth hormone you can use amino acids or binaurals. I have no evidence that the binaurals work for this, but they work in me for estrogen and progesterone so there's a good chance they're legit.

Growth Factor 9, while expensive, claims to contain HGH precursors, and raise HGH significantly.


- Jade

Ummm

I am starting to go with Jaded Jade here

I dropped my doses down to 500mg per day last 2.5 weeks and have seen a very large increase in size

?

Julie