[ElainMoria]

Lotus I love your posts, so much information in them. I just wish I understood even half of what you posted. *chuckles* It's annoying to me to have data at my finger tips and be clueless about what it means. I'm the science and tech geek in my family and I read your posts and my brain does back flips trying to digest all this new information and then glazes over and refuses to cooperate with me on learning it all.

I will learn it though. I mean really, how dare there be information right there in front of me and I don't know square one about it. It offends my geek nature.

*muah* Keep posting, I'll keep reading and maybe some day it will all click and I will have an AH HAH! moment and finally get it.

~Elain

[Lotus]

Lol and hey thanks Elain, that's too funny, and I'll be honest this stuff puts me to sleep, seriously.

A few months ago I threw in the towel, I felt I accomplished my NBE goals. But then it hit me that I wasn't done yet and there was still much to learn.


Good luck Elain, I wish you success.

[Dianna1395]

Well, I got all excited about this (especially since I want to keep the hormones sort of normal right now....)

Then I read this:
http://www.testosteroned.com/wp-content/...ffects.png

Which I found here:
http://www.testosteroned.com/testosterone-and-daa/

So, it sounds like there's a potential VERY BAD link to DAA use. Especially for me, as I'm prone to a depressive state already. (If the day ends in "Y", I'm "depressed," or melancholy.)

It sounds like there's the potential for a neurotoxin/poison effect, especially if used for a long time (More than a month.) Not much different from licorice in that regard, though. But we need to be aware of it so we can plan accordingly, and cycle off. :-)

*: the source isn't exactly authoritative, since they're trying to sell something - the opinion and research is on Amazon, after all. But it's reasonable to keep an open (suspicious) mind when possibly facing neural damage, right? More to gain than to lose, vs. how much you might lose if this is fully true and you just say, "damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!"

[Candace]

Yeah, excessive stimulation of NMDA receptors by DAA or glutamate can lead to terrible things. I would have also linked to Martin Pall's "Tenth Paradigm" website but my anti-virus software says it's been compromised.

[The First Aria]

O.k. Lotus, here's a question. As you know, from our personal chat's, my T level is at 455.9. If I figure it right, that is a little short of 1/2 or normal range of free T. My Prolactin is about 9.7, which is a little above 1/2 of range for free Pro.

Knowing I would like about a 40 C cup, and maybe experience lactation. I know I have to get thru budding and enlarge breast's a little more. (Right now, a solid 38 c loose 40 B.)

Question is .... Pumpkin seed oil Caps for overall decrease of T, or push White Peony for aromatase? Or should I use Reishi instead of Pumpkin Seed Oil? There are many here who feel if you drop T and convert what little Free T is left to Estrogen, that's the way to go.

The reason I posted in public, rather than PM's is I think your answer could help many more than just myself.

So color me "perplexed" and confused! ! !

[Lotus]

O.k. Lotus, here's a question. As you know, from our personal chat's, my T level is at 455.9. If I figure it right, that is a little short of 1/2 or normal range of free T. My Prolactin is about 9.7, which is a little above 1/2 of range for free Pro.

Knowing I would like about a 40 C cup, and maybe experience lactation. I know I have to get thru budding and enlarge breast's a little more. (Right now, a solid 38 c loose 40 B.)

Question is .... Pumpkin seed oil Caps for overall decrease of T, or push White Peony for aromatase? Or should I use Reishi instead of Pumpkin Seed Oil? There are many here who feel if you drop T and convert what little Free T is left to Estrogen, that's the way to go.

The reason I posted in public, rather than PM's is I think your answer could help many more than just myself.

So color me "perplexed" and confused! ! !

There's a few schools of thought on this, and science doesn't make it any less easier for one to decide on an effective approach. The 2 to 5 years it takes to achieve measurable results is a pain in the ass quite honestly. Besides, if we find the right steroid pathway to produce a safe/expedited/effective way that traditional science says otherwise why wouldn't we listen??.

Of the androgens produced in our bodies DHT (dihydrotestosterone) is the one that prevents aromatase and "can not" convert to estradiol. So even though the concentration of free testosterone is lower think how many target tissues it affects (it's vast).

Now 5 alpha-reductase is another key issue, for those that don't know that's the enzyme that will covert Free T to DHT. This is why anti-androgens (in this case it's called 5 alpha reductase inhibitors supplements/meds) are used to prevent that conversion from taking place. Now I don't think its been effectively demonstrated, (at least to my knowledge) that if you simply use a pro-aromatase before 5 AR does its nasty business you then are able to catch that conversion process (firstly) and thereby making it possible to go directly to E2-Estradiol.

I'll give you an example in a classic gynecomastia case, a doctor sees a patient with early onset gyno, labs are ordered and test results show low T, so the good doctor prescribes DEPO T injections. Keep in mind free T nor estradiol levels where not checked, had this been done in the first place total T wouldn't have been the issue, free T and estradiol would have been elevated, and if an anti-aromatase medication was prescribed to the treatment plan the gyno would have been stopped.

Let me please ask this before we go further.......What do you think the outcome was was from prescribing massive amounts of Testosterone injections (3 month course) to this individual?.

[The First Aria]

My first guess would be none. BUT, after our chats, I would suggest it would of pumped up his free Estrogen levels.

[Lotus]

My first guess would be none. BUT, after our chats, I would suggest it would of pumped up his free Estrogen levels.

Yeah exactly, the plan back fired and made the gyno go into overdrive, how do I know?, (well), it happened to me lol. Or, to use another analogy, "how do you feed a fire?......you add more fuel", in this case the testosterone was that fuel. Now I don't have an unfair advantage over others like an extra chromosome (XXY,) or one less testicle, but this happens quite often and more so to older dudes. Anyways back to boobies lol, this approach I'm getting at is that for the most part I don't use AA's, why? I don't need them or want to limit any chance I could influence that other 54% of albumin, I just applied that model to the current NBE plan in the last year and grew over 2 inches (4 1/2 total). Will it work for everybody?, it's hard to say, YMMV. I will say this though, I think the length of time thing has been shortened in my case.

In another example is how body builders use pro-estrogen supps for building muscle gains in a cycle or two. Before gyno takes place and induces permanent changes to their chest they stomp on the breaks with an anti-aromatase supp. Although admitting to using E to increase mass would be ridiculous right?.

Take a look at this, these results are in women with normal menstrual cycles, what it demonstrates is the binding percentages of hormones. And remember it's the "free" hormone state that initiates growth, we can't mix up a simple binding of some hormones because they don't all synthesize into the growth stage, (that's the part of overloading with E that will not produce growth and doesn't work).

Binding distribution of principle endogenous steroid hormones in normal women during the menstrual cycle.

Of clinical importance is free testosterone, which is often elevated in hyperandrogenic women with clinical manifestations of hirsutism. The free testosterone is regulated by the concentration of SHBG in blood. The higher the SHBG level, the lower the free testosterone level, and vice versa. A number of factors can affect SHBG concentrations in blood. They include obesity, menopause, insulin, and androgens, each of which decreases SHBG levels. In contrast, SHBG levels are increased by estrogens, thyroid hormone, liver cirrhosis, and prolonged stress.





   

[Lotus]

More on Binding, see how Albumin has the high binding capacity?, this is the one with lost potential in plasma. It's an untapped pool of steroids.





   

[Lotus]

So as the argument wages on as to whether adding more E into the system for increased effect makes more sense, think about this:

It's already there in albumin!!, just work on activating it into the free form of hormones so it can transport into the E receptors (obviously it's a much more complex scenario than I describe here, I think we want plain talk right?) .