[Lotus]

I'd just stick with 1 (vitex or red clover), then......add in free fatty acids.

The point being they (phyto's) could interfere with each other.

Trying to follow the discussion and links (some WAY over my head) -- are you suggesting that Vitex might be a better alternative than PM? Sorry to be a reductionist, but when the science gets dense, that is what I become.

ER-b (estrogen receptor beta) slows breast growth, which is great in preventing cancer, but if you have a phytoestrogens that have an affinity for this receptor it means very slow growth. PM has multiple phyto's that favor the ER-b type, this is why it takes longer. Dexy & miroestrol are definelly the stronger phyto's of PM (granted), they have an affinity for ER-a (growth receptor).

But still, daidzien in PM opposes E2 action, it acts like a phyto-androgen.

You'd want a phytoestrogen that favors the growth receptor alpha (ER-a) but not to aggressive. Vitex and RC look like they fit the task. Now you add in coconut oil, (which is for building tissue and blocking 5 ar, and aromatase). A strong plamitic acid needs to be sourced though (Palm oil ???? I dunno yet) something in the palm family. Saw Palmetto??, I'm still not sure about that one yet, it still down-regulates progesterone receptors, so still searching.

Buttttt, Estrogen receptor alpha is made up from palmitoylated protein, which is palmitic acid, this is why it's the holy grail.

ERa is a palmitoylated protein
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2246083/

Meaning if you take a palm product before supplementing with something like vitex or RC the door (estrogen receptor alpha) is left open. Fatty acids like coconut oil, or anything in the omega 3-6-7-9 family will help with growth.

Make sense?,

[spanky (aka Lola)]

ER-b (estrogen receptor beta) slows breast growth, which is great in preventing cancer, but if you have a phytoestrogens that have an affinity for this receptor it means very slow growth. PM has multiple phyto's that favor the ER-b type, this is why it takes longer. Dexy & miroestrol are definelly the stronger phyto's of PM (granted), they have an affinity for ER-a (growth receptor).

But still, daidzien in PM opposes E2 action, it acts like a phyto-androgen.

You'd want a phytoestrogen that favors the growth receptor alpha (ER-a) but not to aggressive. Vitex and RC look like they fit the task. Now you add in coconut oil, (which is for building tissue and blocking 5 ar, and aromatase). A strong plamitic acid needs to be sourced though (Palm oil ???? I dunno yet) something in the palm family. Saw Palmetto??, I'm still not sure about that one yet, it still down-regulates progesterone receptors, so still searching.

Buttttt, Estrogen receptor alpha is made up from palmitoylated protein, which is palmitic acid, this is why it's the holy grail.

ERa is a palmitoylated protein
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2246083/

Meaning if you take a palm product before supplementing with something like vitex or RC the door (estrogen receptor alpha) is left open. Fatty acids like coconut oil, or anything in the omega 3-6-7-9 family will help with growth.

Make sense?,

Yes -- it does make sense. If one goes that route (rather than sticking with PM), do you have any recommendation for the dosage of Vitex or RC? How about coconut oil?

There are Vitex extracts, but they seem VERY expensive as opposed to capsules.

Also, I have seen warnings against combining Vitex with progesterone but do not know what the problem is. (http://www.ehow.com/way_5474914_vitex-br...rowth.html). Do you think that warning would apply even if you are cycling and stop vitex before applying progesterone cream?

I have seen discussion (not sure how authoritative) indicating that vitex boosts progesterone and reduces prolactin.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/371678/th...with+Vitex

As for palmitic acid, isn't it connected with increased risk of cardiovascular disease? I think the Wiki on palmitic acid indicates that the WHO says this is so.

[Lotus]

Well the dosage part I'm not sure about yet, but if we go by binding affinity this applies:

High-affinity ligand binding implies that a relatively low concentration of a ligand is adequate to maximally occupy a ligand-binding site and trigger a physiological response.

Binding affinity data alone does not determine the overall potency of a drug. Potency is a result of the complex interplay of both the binding affinity and the ligand efficacy. Ligand efficacy refers to the ability of the ligand to produce a biological response upon binding to the target receptor and the quantitative magnitude of this response. This response may be as an agonist, antagonist, or inverse agonist, depending on the physiological response produced.[8]

http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligand_(biochemistry)

But the amount (dosage) will be be different in men and women, some of the recommendations say low dose in men counters prolactin release, while higher dosages inhibit it.

Take for instance this study:

Vitex agnus-castus extracts for female reproductive disorders: a systematic review of clinical trials.

In premenstrual dysphoric disorder, one study reported Vitex to be equivalent to fluoxetine, while in the other, fluoxetine outperformed Vitex. In latent hyperprolactinaemia, one trial reported it to be superior to placebo for reducing TRH-stimulated prolactin secretion, normalising a shortened luteal phase, increasing mid-luteal progesterone and 17β-oestradiol levels, while the other found Vitex comparable to bromocriptine for reducing serum prolactin levels and ameliorating cyclic mastalgia.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23136064

So we really need to be careful with recommendations. But, I still want more info on vitex, but it "is" a phytoestrongen.

The concerns about vitex centers around how it influences dopamine, but I think this can (vitex) goes deeper than that, I believe it also plays a big part in lipid oxidation, which is huge because that ties into anti-inflammtories, free radical scavengers, degenerative conditions and of course Eicosanoid Pathway, which involves COX inhibitors (big time aromatase).

You know the view or shoud I say the research over the last decade or two has shown that fatty acids are a preventive measure against cancer. So, there's plenty of debate for sure, I certainly won't try to change someone's mind about it, I'll just refer them to research, like I did, I was completely against increased intake of FFA's, and I was in the industry for 30 years.

I will say this, if you don't have fitness in a NBE plan and take this approach you'd better be prepared to get chunky, cause fat loves making more fat.

[Lotus]

Here's another example of how genistein acts an antiestrogen, (which in this case is a good one). But the point being, genistein is in so many phytoestrogens, SOY isoflavones, Fenugreek, PM etc. (crazy, huh?).


Genistein in the presence of 17beta-estradiol inhibits proliferation of ERbeta breast cancer cells.

A significant decrease in cell proliferation was seen in MDA-MB-231 cells at low concentrations of genistein in the presence of 17beta-estradiol, as compared to genistein alone. In T47D cells, which are known to have a predominance of ERalpha over ERbeta, genistein showed a biphasic cell proliferative response both in the presence and absence of 17beta-estradiol.

CONCLUSIONS:
Our results suggest that in cells with a predominance of ERalpha, genistein acts as an agonist to ERalpha, and in cells with ERbeta alone, genistein most likely acts as an antiestrogen. Our results also suggest that genistein could be useful as a chemotherapeutic agent in premenopausal women with breast cancer of the ERalpha-negative and ERbeta-positive type.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19556829


If anybody is bored, and wants to do some research here's 185 possible ways to improve upon the estrogen receptor binding process, (Could be some new hope in there). and of course there's always new paythways to discover. (Ah well, it was a thought). (yup, I know)....there are studies confirming genistein may promote breast cancer too. Seen here:

Everyone should read this about Genistein, (one of phytoestrogens in PM and other products).

Also note that increased consumption of soy products reduces plasma concentrations of estradiol.

Genistein: does it prevent or promote breast cancer?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles...9-0057.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles...85/?page=1

From pg. 702 Possible Anti-Estrogenic Effects of Genistein

Genistein has significant estrogenic properties in both in vitro and in vivomodels (Table1). Genistein binds to the estrogen receptor(ER), although its binding affinity is several-fold weaker than that of estradiol(30). Genistein can also activate a number of estrogen-responsive genes in vitro, including pS2 and c-fos (18,31). Furthermore, when administered at low doses, genistein stimulates the growth of ER-positive(ER+) breast cancer cells (18-20). Findings in other tissue systems support the estrogenicity of genistein. For example, genistein is uterotrophic in a variety of species, resulting in impaired reproductive activity and increases inuterine wet weights.



Phytoestrogens and diseases of the prostate gland.
In particular, soya contains the isoflavone genistein, a compound with many properties which could influence both endocrine and growth factor signalling pathways.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term...98)80008-6

The binding database
http://www.bindingdb.org/bind/ByPubMed_s...(ER-alpha)

(Great site)

[Lotus]

I (we) should take a minute here and give a big thanks to Eve (our site administrator). Over the weekend Eve took proactive measures to handle the increased volume and membership of BN. Last week we experienced some connection speed issues, but now we're up to speed at a much bigger site.

Eve, thanks again for all the hard work you do behind the scenes, she's seldom seen and heard (signs of an excellent manager/admin).


Btw, I thought I lost this post over the weekend from the switch, so I thought I would have to redo it, but Eve was able to retrieve it (awesome, thanks) it's a repost from some months ago (it's a pretty amazing tbh). I can certainly appreciate the effort that went into this fine piece of work.

Gynecological Herbs

introduction:
Traditionally, a large number of different herbs have been used to affect different aspects of the activity of the female reproductive tract. Historically, there is a legacy of confusion and little agreement even among contemporary authorities about the precise meaning of different designations and classifications of herbs used in gynecology. For a review of author discrepancies see The Phytoestrogen Debate by Peggy Wilbur, and for a historical review of herbs used in gynecological conditions see A Comparative Review of Eclectic Female Regulators by Francis Brinker. Endocrine-like activities of herbs used for gynecological purposes do not necessarily correspond with traditional terminology which is therefore reviewed briefly below. Better general surveys of herbs used gynecologically in modern herbal therapeutics may be found in books by herbalists Amanda McQuade-Crawford and Ruth Trickey.

From the perspective of drug-herb interactions, herbs with identifiable hormone-like activities on the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis (HPA) are considered in Interactions™, although detailed studies and reports of interactions between pharmaceutical drugs and these agents are not available.
(Brinker F. Brit J Phytotherapy 1997;4,3:123-145; McQuade-Crawford A. 1997; Trickey R. 1998; Wilbur P. Eur J Herbal Med 1996 2.2:20-26, and 1996 2.3:19-26.)

food/herb group affecting drug performance: Oral Contraceptives

• mechanism: Phytoestrogenic constituents of foods and medicinal herbs may interact with steroid sex hormone metabolism, and synergize with exogenous steroid hormones in ERT (Estrogen Replacement Therapy), HRT (Hormone Replacement Therapy).

• herbal concerns: Despite lack of scientific evidence of adverse interactions, prudence suggests that herbs possessing direct endocrinological effects on the female reproductive tract should be avoided during treatment with ERT (Estrogen Replacement Therapy), HRT (Hormone Replacement Therapy), or GnRH (Gonadotrophic Releasing Hormone) inhibitors.

• herbal support: Cimicifuga racemosa (Black Cohosh) has been used to support withdrawal from HRT and ERT and to adjunctively treat symptoms of menopause.


herbs affecting Hypothalamic-Pituitary Axis (HPA):

• phytoestrogens: Phytoestrogens may be defined as plant constituents possessing the ability to mimic the biological effects of beta-estradiol in laboratory tests by their ability to bind to the nuclear estrogen receptor, activate transcriptional response and to promote growth of estrogen dependent MCF7 cells in culture. Phytoestrogenic activity is found among the following five naturally occurring chemical compound groupings which are widely distributed among medicinal and food plants:

• Isoflavonoids (e.g., formononetin, daidzein, genistein, coumestrol, biochanin A)
• Sterols (e.g., beta-sitosterol, stigmasterol)
• Saponins (e.g., diosgenin),
• Lignans (e.g., enterolactone),
• Essential oils (Clary sage, Fennel)

Isoflavonoid phytoestrogenic constituents are nutritionally available in plants from the Fabaceae (bean) family, particularly Glycine max (Soybean). Among medicinal plants, the most important phytoestrogenic plant in common therapeutic use is Cimicifuga racemosa (Black Cohosh).

Comprehensive lists of plants containing phytoestrogenic constituents can be found in various sources such as James Duke's Handbook of Phytochemical Constituents of GRAS Herbs and Other Economical Plants or the related database of the Agricultural Research Service - Phytochemical and Ethnobotanical Databases (http://www.ars-grin.gov/duke/) and the NAPRALERT database. (Link not working)
(Duke JA.1994; Miksicek R. Mol Pharmacol, 44(1):37-43, 1993.)

In clinical practice, it has long been known that phytoestrogenic medicinal herbs often have both estrogenic and anti-estrogenic actions. This variability in action remains to be elucidated in terms of potency of phytoestrogenic constituents, balance of agonistic and antagonistic tendencies and compounds, short and long term effects, as well as the problem of different methodological approaches used to identify estrogenicity. The functional endocrinological status of the consumer/patient adds to this complexity, although this is well understood by clinicians experienced in the use of these agents. For example, Cimicifuga racemosa (Black Cohosh) may be used to help correct estrogen dominance in pre-menopausal women yet supports estrogenic activity in post-menopausal women.

Herbalist David Hoffmann has recently reviewed developments in phytoestrogen research and considers that the FDA's National Center for Toxicological Research has identified the importance and need for further research in clarifying the roles of bioavailable estrogenic substances in three respects: estrogen agonism, estrogen antagonism, and endocrine disruption (particularly disruption of the development of secondary sexual characteristics and the reduction of sperm counts). The toxicology approach emphasizes the role of xenoestrogens rather then phytoestrogens, but nutritional phytoestrogens are included within the broad scope of future research and possible regulation. At present, only general conclusions can be made about the role of phytoestrogens which (after Hoffman D.) could be summarized:

1. A number of diverse plant constituents contribute significantly to human estrogen exposure at dietary levels.
2. Nutritionally available estrogenic substances can have a significant role in estrogen metabolism.
3. Biological activity of phytoestrogens extends beyond simple estrogen receptor activity to effects on cellular differentiation, proliferation, angiogenesis, enzyme inhibition, growth factor action and other effects which constitute protective activity against cancer.
4. Dietary incorporation of isoflavone rich foods may contribute to the reduction of risk of cancer; in particular, the majority of studies on soy isoflavones have confirmed significant anti-cancer effects.

• aromatase modifiers:Some flavone and isoflavone constituents can inhibit aromatase. Aromatase is a P450 enzyme that catalyzes the formation of estrogens from androgens in many tissues. The activity is greater for flavone constituents rather than the isoflavone constituents, and while this may account for part of the anti-estrogenic activity of some flavonoid phytoestrogens, other herbs are known to reverse low aromatase activity, the most studied being Paeonia lactiflora (White peony). In vitro studies have shown the aromatase action of Paeonia to be due to the monoterpene glycoside, paeoniflorin.
(Chen S, et al. J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol 61,3-6:107-115,1997; Takeuchi T, et al. Am J Chin Med 1991;18:73-78.)

See also the following: Nutrients: Flavonoids, Quercitin and Grapefruit Juice

• direct pituitary agents: While Cimicifuga racemosa and soy products can influence pituitary action by peripheral modulation of LH and FSH via estrogenic effects, other herbs act directly upon the pituitary to modify prolactin, FSH and LH levels. The best known example is Vitex agnus-castus (Chasteberry). Animal studies have demonstrated Vitex inhibits prolactin levels in vitro and in vivo by binding to dopamine D2 receptors in the pituitary. Human studies have shown increase in progesterone levels in corpus luteum insufficiency during Vitex administration.

• oxytocics: Several plant constituents have been shown to have oxytocic activity, notably caulosaponin and caulophyllosaponin from Caulophyllum thalictroides (Blue Cohosh) which is classified as a traditional emmenagogue. Other oxytocic compounds include sparteine in Cytisus scoparius (Scotch Broom), and quinine from Cinchona species.

• commentary: Wild Yam and "Natural Progesterone": There has been some confusion concerning products containing Dioscorea villosa (Mexican Wild Yam) that claim to boost endogenous progesterone levels, or to be a form of "natural progesterone". To add to the confusion, some topical preparations actually contain both Dioscorea extract and pharmaceutical progesterone. The following points should be noted:
• The natural steroidal compound diosgenin is in fact estrogenic, not progesteronic.
• Diosgenin has been used as a starter compound in the laboratory synthesis of progesterone patented by Marker in the late 1940's known as the Marker Degradation Process.
• Homologous metabolic pathways do not exist humans, and diosgenin is therefore not a "precursor" for endogenous progesterone synthesis.
(Brinker F. Brit J Phytotherapy 1997;4,3:123-145; Wilbur P. Eur J Herbal Med 1996 2.2:20-26, and 1996 2.3:19-26.)

terminology: herbs directly affecting the uterus:

• Uterine Tonics: Herbs that re-establish normal tone of the uterine muscle and improve overall strength of the organ. Examples: Rubus idaeus (Red raspberry leaf), Angelica sinensis (Dong Quai), Chamaelerium luteum (Helonias, False Unicorn root).
• Uterine Spasmolytics: Herbs that reduce the rate and amplitude of uterine contractions. Examples: Viburnum opulus (Cramp bark), Viburnum prunifolium (Black Haw), Ligusticum wallichii (Chuang Xiong).
• Uterine Emmenagogues: Traditionally defined as herbs that accelerate delayed menses. More accurately, herbs that stimulate uterine contractions and hence may increase expulsive activity of the uterus.These have also been described as abortifacients. Examples: Ruta graveolens (Rue), Artemisia vulgaris (Mugwort), Mentha pulegium (Pennyroyal).
• Uterine Astringents: Herbs that have a vasoconstrictive action on the endometrial circulation. Examples: Achillea millefolium (Yarrow), Alchemilla vulgaris (Lady's mantle), Trillium erectum (Beth root), Capsella bursa-pastoris (Shepherd's Purse).



Herbs

Herbs listed in this section are compiled and edited from electronic databases including Professor Norman Farnsworth's NAPRALERT database at University of Chicago, Illinois, and Dr. James Duke's Phytochemical and Ethnobotanical Databases at the Agricultural Research Service. Textual sources include Michael Moore's Herbal/Medical Contraindications and Francis Brinker's Herb Contraindications and Drug Interactions.
(Moore M. 1995; Brinker F. 1998.)

Plant activities may be based upon widely different assay methods, and may be laboratory, in vitro, in vivo, or human studies. Constituent data is not quantified. Estrogenic constituents are very widely distributed and the following lists are limited to more common medicinal and edible plants. For principal herbs in common therapeutic gynecological use see Summary section of this Herb Group in Interactions™.

Herbs with HPA (Hypothalamic-Pituitary Axis) activty: Oxytocic synergists:

• Asclepias asperula (Immortal)
• Capsella bursa-pastoris (Shepherd's Purse)
• Cinchona spp. (Cinchona bark) *
• Claviceps purpurea (Ergot of Rye) *
• Cytisus scoparius (Scotch Broom)
• Gossypium spp.(Cotton root Bark)
• Leonurus cardiaca (Motherwort)
• Myristica fragrans (Nutmeg)
• Petroselinum crispum (Parsely)
• Senecio aureus (Life Root) *
• Stachys betonica (Wood Betony)
• Glycyrrhiza glabra (Licorice root)
• Paeonia lactiflora (Peony)
• Rehmannia glutinosa (Chinese Foxglove)
• Vitex agnus-castus (Chasteberry)
• Chinese herbal formula: Rehmannia Eight
• Chinese herbal formula: Paeonia and Glycyrrhiza

Herbs with HPA (Hypothalamic-Pituitary Axis) activity: FSH/LH modifiers:

• Cimicifuga racemosa (Black Cohosh)
• Tripterygium wilfordii (Lei Gong Teng) *
• Vitex agnus-castus (Chasteberry)

Herbs with HPA (Hypothalamic-Pituitary Axis) activity: Progestagenics:

• Alchemilla vulgaris (Ladie's mantle)
• Angelica sinensis (Dong Quai)
• Areca catechu (Betel nut)
• Ceanothus americanus (Red Root)
• Vitex agnus-castus (Chasteberry)

Chinese herbal formula: including:

• Angelica sinensis (Dong Quai)
• Astragalus membranaceus (Astragalus)
• Gardenia jasminoides (Zhi zi)
• Leonurus heterophyllus (Chinese Motherwort)
• Panax notoginseng (Pseudoginseng)
• Rubia cordifolia (Madder)
• Scutellaria baicalensis (Baical Skullcap)

Common phytoestrogenic food/herbs containing: Coumestrol

• Brassica spp. (Brussels Sprouts, Cabbage)
• Glycine max (Soybean)
• Medicago sativa (Alfalfa)
• Pisum sativum (Pea)
• Trifolium pratense (Red Clover)
• Vigna radiata (Mungbean)

Common phytoestrogenic food/herbs containing: Biochanin A:

• Baptisia tinctoria (Wild Indigo)
• Medicago sativa (Alfalfa)
• Sophora japonica (Japanese Pagoda Tree)
• Trifolium pratense (Red Clover)
• Vigna radiata (Mungbean)

Common phytoestrogenic food/herbs containing: Daidzein:

• Glycine max (Soybean)
• Phaseolus coccineus (Scarlet Runner Bean)
• Pueraria spp. (Kudzu; Pueraria)
• Trifolium pratense (Red Clover)
• Vigna radiata (Mungbean)

Common phytoestrogenic food/herbs containing: Formononetin:

• Astragalus membranaceus (Astragalus)
• Cimicifuga racemosa (Black Cohosh)
• Glycyrrhiza glabra (Licorice root)
• Medicago sativa (Alfalfa)
• Pueraria spp. (Kudzu; Pueraria)
• Trifolium pratense (Red Clover)
• Vigna radiata (Mungbean)

Common phytoestrogenic food/herbs containing: Genistein:

• Baptisia tinctoria (Wild Indigo)
• Cytisus scoparius (Scotch Broom)
• Glycine max (Soybean)
• Glycyrrhiza glabra (Licorice root)
• Medicago sativa (Alfalfa)
• Pueraria spp. (Kudzu; Pueraria)
• Sophora japonica (Japanese Pagoda Tree)
• Trifolium pratense (Red Clover)
• Vigna radiata (Mungbean)

Common phytoestrogenic food/herbs containing: Beta-Sitosterol:

• Achillea millefolium (Yarrow)
• Allium cepa (Onion)
• Allium sativum (Garlic)
• Aloe vera (Aloe)
• Anethum graveolens (Dill)
• Angelica archangelica (Angelica)
• Angelica sinensis (Dong Quai)
• Arctostaphylos uva-ursi (Bearberry)
• Arnica montana (Arnica)
• Artemisia annua (Sweet Annie)
• Artemisia dracunculus (Tarragon)
• Artemisia vulgaris (Mugwort)
• Asarum canadense (Wild Ginger)
• Asclepias syriaca (Milkweed)
• Aspidosperma quebracho-blanco (Quebracho)
• Astragalus membranaceus (Astragalus)
• Avena sativa (Oats)
• Calendula officinalis (Marigold)
• Capsella bursa-pastoris (Shepherd's Purse)
• Capsicum annuum (Chili Pepper)
• Centaurium erythraea (Centaury)
• Centella asiatica (Gotu Kola)
• Chimaphila umbellata (Pipsissewa)
• Cnicus benedictus (Blessed Thistle)
• Commiphora myrrha (Myrrh)
• Crataegus spp. (Hawthorn)
• Cucurbita pepo (Pumpkin)
• Cytisus scoparius (Scotch Broom)
• Daucus carota (Wild Carrot)
• Echinacea spp. (Echinacea)
• Elettaria cardamomum (Cardamom)
• Eleutherococcus senticosus (Siberian Ginseng)
• Equisetum arvense (Horsetail )
• Fagopyrum esculentum (Buckwheat)
• Foeniculum vulgare (Fennel)
• Fucus vesiculosus (Bladderwrack)
• Glycine max (Soybean)
• Glycyrrhiza glabra (Licorice root)
• Gossypium spp. (Cotton)
• Hordeum vulgare (Barley)
• Humulus lupulus (Hops)
• Hyssopus officinalis (Hyssop)
• Inula helenium (Elecampane)
• Lactuca virosa (Bitter Lettuce)
• Liquidambar orientalis (Oriental Styrax)
• Marrubium vulgare (Horehound)
• Medicago sativa (Alfalfa)
• Melilotus officinalis (Melilot)
• Melissa officinalis (Lemon Balm)
• Mentha spicata (Spearmint)
• Nicotiana tabacum (Tobacco)
• Ocimum basilicum (Basil)
• Oenothera biennis (Evening Primrose)
• Paeonia lactiflora (Peony)
• Panax ginseng (Chinese Ginseng, Korean Ginseng)
• Panax quinquefolius (American Ginseng)
• Pisum sativum (Pea)
• Plantago psyllium (Psyllium seed)
• Ptychopetalum olacoides (Muira Puama)
• Punica granatum (Pomegranate)
• Rehmannia glutinosa (Chinese Foxglove)
• Rosmarinus officinalis (Rosemary)
• Salvia officinalis (Sage)
• Salvia sclarea (Clary Sage)
• Sambucus nigra (Elderflower)
• Sassafras albidum (Sassafras)
• Scutellaria baicalensis (Baikal Skullcap)
• Serenoa repens (Saw Palmetto)
• Smilax spp. (Sarsaparilla)
• Solanum dulcamara (Bitter Nightshade)
• Sophora japonica (Japanese Pagoda Tree)
• Taraxacum officinale ( Dandelion)
• Theobroma cacao (Cacao)
• Tribulus terrestris (Puncture-vine)
• Trifolium pratense (Red Clover)
• Trigonella foenum-graecum (Fenugreek)
• Turnera diffusa (Damiana)
• Urginea maritima (Squill)
• Valeriana officinalis (Valerian)
• Verbascum thapsus (Mullein)
• Viburnum opulus (Crampbark)
• Vinca minor (Periwinkle)
• Viola odorata (Sweet Violet)
• Vitis vinifera (Wine Grape)
• Withania somnifera (Ashwagandha)
• Zea mays (Corn silk)
• Zingiber officinale (Ginger)


http://www.pricklypearjunction.com/inter...ogical.htm

[The First Aria]

As having been a Site Manager on several occasions before. I certainly can attest the time consumption it takes. The biggest site I had was a Gaming Clan that had a little over 300 registered users.. That took many hr.'s to keep it going, protecting it from spammer's etc.

Not sure how many member's have active accounts here, but can guess it makes my previous endeavors appear puny in comparison. So hats and bra's off for Our Lady of the Site.

[The First Aria]

It sorta sounds like you have to be a perfect male/female specimen to get away with dosing yourself with any herbs, cause if one thing don't get ya, the other will.

Like cancer, oestrioporosis, deep vain thrombosis, diabetes just to mention a few.

[Lotus]

Yahtzee!!!!

From the listed reference (which was a dead link), I was able to find this incredible resource, and I do mean incredible.


Dr. Duke's
Phytochemical and Ethnobotanical Databases


Chemicals with 5-alpha-reductase-inhibitor Activity

ALIZARIN
ALPHA-LINOLENIC-ACID
ARACHIDONIC-ACID
ARTOCARPIN IC50=85 uM
BIOCHANIN-A IC50=35 uM IC>80=100 uM
CURCUMIN
LINOLEIC-ACID
OLEIC-ACID
PALMITIC-ACID
PALMITOLEIC-ACID
STEARIC-ACID


Dr. James A. Duke
http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/duke/che...-Inhibitor

[Lotus]

Ok, you remember what I said about palmitic acid being in estrogen receptor alpha (the boobie growth receptor?)

Well here you go, get happy!!

Dr. Duke's
Phytochemical and Ethnobotanical Databases


Plant parts with 5-alpha-reductase-inhibitor Activity
from the chemical PALMITOLEIC-ACID

Anacardium occidentale L. -- Cashew; found in Seed
Ananas comosus (L.) MERR. -- Pineapple; found in Fruit
Anethum graveolens L. -- Dill, Garden Dill; found in Fruit
Apium graveolens L. -- Celery; found in Pt
Aquilegia vulgaris L. -- Columbine; found in Seed
Arachis hypogaea L. -- Groundnut, Peanut; found in Seed
Areca catechu L. -- Betel Nut, Pin-Lang; found in Seed
Asparagus officinalis L. -- Asparagus; found in Shoot
Bactris gasipaes HBK. -- Peach palm, Pejibaye; found in Fruit
Bertholletia excelsa BONPL. -- Brazilnut, Brazilnut-Tree, Creamnut, Paranut; found in Seed
Brassica nigra (L.) W. D. J. KOCH -- Black Mustard; found in Leaf
Brassica oleracea var. gemmifera var. gemmifera DC -- Brussel-Sprout, Brussels-Sprouts; found in Leaf
Brassica oleracea var. gongylodes L. -- Kohlrabi; found in Stem
Brassica oleracea var. sabellica l. var. acephala DC -- Curly Kale, Kale, Kitchen Kale, Scotch Kale; found in Leaf
Brassica oleracea var. viridis l. L. -- Collards, Cow Cabbage, Spring-Heading Cabbage, Tall Kale, Tree Kale; found in Plant
Brassica rapa var. rapa -- Rapini, Seven-Top Turnip, Turnip; found in Root
Calendula officinalis L. -- Calendula, Pot-Marigold; found in Seed
Capsicum annuum L. -- Bell Pepper, Cherry Pepper, Cone Pepper, Green Pepper, Paprika, Sweet Pepper; found in Fruit
Capsicum frutescens L. -- Cayenne, Chili, Hot Pepper, Red Chili, Spur Pepper, Tabasco; found in Fruit
Carica papaya L. -- Papaya; found in Fruit
Carum carvi L. -- Caraway, Carum, Comino (Sp.), Comino de prado (Sp.), Kummel (Ger.); found in Fruit
Cedrus deodora LOUD. -- Deodar Cedar; found in Seed
Cicer arietinum L. -- Chickpea, Garbanzo; found in Seed
Cichorium intybus L. -- Chicory, Succory, Witloof; found in Root
Citrullus colocynthis -- Colocynth; found in Seed
Citrus aurantiifolia (CHRISTM.) SWINGLE -- Lime; found in Fruit
Citrus paradisi MacFAD. -- Grapefruit; found in Fruit
Citrus reticulata BLANCO -- Mandarin, Tangerine; found in Fruit
Citrus sinensis (L.) OSBECK -- Orange; found in Fruit
Corchorus olitorius L. -- Jew's Mallow, Mulukiya, Nalta Jute; found in Leaf
Coriandrum sativum L. -- Chinese Parsley, Cilantro, Coriander; found in Fruit
Cucurbita pepo L. -- Pumpkin; found in Flower, Fruit , Seed
Cucurbita spp -- Summer Squash; found in Fruit
Daucus carota L. -- Carrot; found in Root, Seed
Elaeis guineensis JACQ. -- African Oil Palm; found in Fruit
Fragaria spp -- Strawberry; found in Fruit
Ginkgo biloba L. -- Ginkgo, Maidenhair Tree; found in Seed
Glycine max (L.) MERR. -- Soybean; found in Seed
Hibiscus sabdariffa L. -- Acedera de Guinea (Sp.), Indian Sorrel, Jamaica Sorrel, Kharkadi, Malventee (Ger.), Red Sorrel, Rosa de Jamaica (Sp.), Rosella (Ger.), Roselle, Sereni (Sp.), Sorrel; found in Seed
Hordeum vulgare L. -- Barley, Barleygrass; found in Leaf
Jatropha curcas MIERS -- Physic Nut, Purging Nut; found in Seed
Lablab purpureus (L.) SWEET -- Bonavist Bean, Hyacinth Bean, Lablab Bean; found in Seed
Lactuca sativa L. -- Lettuce; found in Leaf
Lens culinaris MEDIK. -- Lentil; found in Seed
Lupinus albus L. -- White Lupine; found in Seed
Lycopersicon esculentum MILLER -- Tomato; found in Fruit
Macadamia spp -- Macadamia; found in Seed
Malus domestica BORKH. -- Apple; found in Fruit
Mangifera indica L. -- Mango; found in Fruit
Morus alba L. -- Sang-Pai-Pi, White Mulberry; found in Seed
Mucuna pruriens (L.) DC. -- Cowage, Velvetbean; found in Seed
Murraya sp -- None; found in Plant
Musa x paradisiaca L. -- Banana, Plantain; found in Fruit
Nelumbo nucifera L. -- Water Lotus; found in Rhizome
Origanum vulgare L. -- Common Turkish Oregano, European Oregano, Oregano, Pot Marjoram, Wild Marjoram, Wild Oregano; found in Plant
Papaver somniferum L. -- Opium Poppy, Poppyseed Poppy; found in Seed
Pastinaca sativa L. -- Parsnip; found in Root
Persea americana MILLER -- Avocado; found in Fruit
Phoenix dactylifera L. -- Date Palm; found in Seed
Pinus edulis ENGELM -- Pinyon Pine; found in Seed
Pinus pinea L. -- Italian Stone Pine, Pignolia; found in Seed
Pistacia vera L. -- Pistachio; found in Seed
Pisum sativum L. -- Pea; found in Fruit
Portulaca oleracea L. -- Purslane, Verdolaga; found in Herb
Prunus cerasus L. -- Sour Cherry; found in Fruit
Prunus domestica L. -- Plum; found in Fruit
Prunus dulcis (MILLER) D. A. WEBB -- Almond; found in Seed
Prunus persica (L.) BATSCH -- Peach; found in Fruit
Psidium cattleianum SABINE -- Strawberry Guava; found in Fruit
Psidium guajava L. -- Guava; found in Fruit
Pyrus communis L. -- Pear; found in Fruit
Ribes nigrum L. -- Black Currant; found in Fruit
Ribes rubrum L. -- Red Currant, White Currant; found in Fruit
Sambucus nigra L. -- Black Elder, Elder, European Alder, European Elder, European Elderberry; found in Seed
Schisandra chinensis (TURCZ.) BAILL. -- Chinese Magnolia Vine, Five-Flavor-Fruit, Magnolia Vine, Schizandra, Wu Wei Zi, Wu Wei Zu; found in Seed
Secale cereale L. -- Rye; found in Seed
Sesamum indicum L. -- Ajonjoli (Sp.), Beni, Benneseed, Sesame, Sesamo (Sp.); found in Seed
Simarouba glauca DC. -- Simaruba Bark; found in Seed
Sinapis alba L. -- White Mustard; found in Seed
Skimmia arborescens T. ANDERSON EX GAMBLE -- Skimmia; found in Seed
Solanum melongena L. -- Aubergine, Eggplant; found in Fruit
Solanum tuberosum L. -- Potato; found in Tuber
Spinacia oleracea L. -- Spinach; found in Plant
Terminalia catappa L. -- Indian Almond, Malabar Almond, Tropical Almond; found in Seed
Tetragonia tetragonioides (PALLAS) KUNTZE -- New Zealand Spinach; found in Leaf
Triticum aestivum L. -- Wheat; found in Plant
Vicia faba L. -- Broadbean, Faba Bean, Habas; found in Seed
Vigna unguiculata subsp. sesquipedalis (L.) VERDC. -- Asparagus Bean, Pea Bean, Yardlong Bean; found in Fruit, Seed , Shoot
Zea mays L. -- Corn; found in Fruit
Zingiber officinale ROSCOE -- Ginger; found in Rhizome

[Lotus]

GOOD GAD-this is thing is off the HoOk!!!, you enter the herb/chemical and its just endless pot O' gold.
Check this out - these are the listed chemicals in coffee, the last post had listed all (well, most) of the 5 alpha redutase inhibitor activities, the ones that prevent DHT, (bad for boob growth) very bad.

Dr. Duke's
Phytochemical and Ethnobotanical Databases


Chemicals in: Coffea arabica L. (Rubiaceae) -- Coffee

Chemicals

2,3,5-TRIMETHYLPHENOL Seed: DUKE1992A
2-ETHYLPHENOL Seed: DUKE1992A
2-METHOXY-4-ETHYLPHENOL Seed: DUKE1992A
24-METHYLENE-CYCLOARTENOL Seed: DUKE1992A
24-METHYLENEPHENOL Seed: DUKE1992A
3,4-DICAFFEOYL-QUINIC-ACID Seed: DUKE1992A
3,5-DICAFFEOYL-QUINIC-ACID Seed: DUKE1992A
4,5-DICAFFEOYL-QUINIC-ACID Seed: DUKE1992A
4-ETHYLPHENOL Seed: DUKE1992A
4-METHOXY-4-VINYLPHENOL Seed: DUKE1992A
5-AVENASTEROL Seed: DUKE1992A
7-STIGMASTEROL Seed: DUKE1992A
ACETALDEHYDE Seed: DUKE1992A
ADENINE Seed: DUKE1992A
ALLANTOIC-ACID Leaf: DUKE1992A
ALLANTOIN Leaf: DUKE1992A
ALPHA-TOCOPHEROL Seed: DUKE1992A
ARABINOGALACTOSE Seed: DUKE1992A
ARABINOSE Seed: DUKE1992A
ARACHIDIC-ACID Seed: DUKE1992A
ASH Seed 37,400 ppm; DUKE1992A
ASPARAGINE Seed: DUKE1992A
ASPARTIC-ACID Seed: DUKE1992A
BETA-CAROTENE Leaf 20 - 25 ppm DUKE1992A
BETA-TOCOPHEROL Seed: DUKE1992A
CAFESTEROL Seed: DUKE1992A
CAFESTOL Seed: DUKE1992A
CAFFEIC-ACID Leaf: DUKE1992A
CAFFEINE Seed 600 - 32,000 ppm DUKE1992A
CAFFEOL Seed: DUKE1992A
CAFFEOYL-3-QUINIC-ACID Seed: DUKE1992A
CAFFETANNIC-ACID Seed 84,600 ppm; DUKE1992A
CAHWEOL Seed: DUKE1992A
CALCIUM Leaf 19,000 - 20,406 ppm DUKE1992A Seed 1,200 - 1,281 ppm DUKE1992A
CAMOESTANOL Seed: DUKE1992A
CAMPESTEROL Seed: DUKE1992A
CAPRINIC-ACID Seed: DUKE1992A
CARBOHYDRATES Leaf 666,000 - 712,000 ppm DUKE1992A Seed 600,000 - 728,000 ppm DUKE1992A
CARNAUBIC-ACID Seed: DUKE1992A
CELLULOSE Seed: DUKE1992A
CHLOROGENIC-ACID Seed 50,000 - 100,000 ppm DUKE1992A
CHOLESTANOL Seed: DUKE1992A
CHOLESTEROL Seed: DUKE1992A
CHOLINE Seed 300 ppm; DUKE1992A
CITRIC-ACID Seed: DUKE1992A
CITROSTADIENOL Seed: DUKE1992A
COFFEASTEROL Seed: DUKE1992A
CYANIDIN Plant: DUKE1992A
CYCLOEUCALENOL Seed: DUKE1992A
CYSTEINE Seed: DUKE1992A
CYSTINE Seed: DUKE1992A
DATURIC-ACID Seed: DUKE1992A
DEXTRINS Seed 8,700 ppm; DUKE1992A
DIHYDROLANASTEROL Seed: DUKE1992A
DIHYDROSITOSTEROL Seed: DUKE1992A
DIMETHYL-5-ALPHA-CHOLEST-7-EN-3-BETA-OL Seed: DUKE1992A
DIMETHYL-5-ALPHA-CHOLEST-8-EN-3-BETA-OL Seed: DUKE1992A
ENT-16-KAUREN-19-OL Plant: DUKE1992A
EO Seed 1,000 - 2,000 ppm DUKE1992A
EUGENOL Seed: DUKE1992A
FAT Leaf 55,000 - 59,000 ppm DUKE1992A Seed 74,000 - 170,000 ppm DUKE1992A
FIBER Leaf 175,000 - 187,000 ppm DUKE1992A Seed 229,000 - 244,000 ppm DUKE1992A
FUFURYL-ALCOHOL Seed: DUKE1992A
FURFURALDEHYDE Seed: DUKE1992A
GALACTAN Seed: DUKE1992A
GALACTOMANNAN Seed: DUKE1992A
GAMMA-SITOSTEROL Seed: DUKE1992A
GAMMA-TOCOPHEROL Seed: DUKE1992A
GLUCOGALACTOMANNAN Seed: DUKE1992A
GUAIACOL Seed: DUKE1992A
GUANOSINE Seed: DUKE1992A
HEMICELLULOSE Seed: DUKE1992A
HOMOCELLULOSE Seed: DUKE1992A
HYDROGEN-SULFIDE Seed: DUKE1992A
HYPOXANTHINE Seed: DUKE1992A
IRON Leaf 966 - 1,032 ppm DUKE1992A Seed 29 - 31 ppm DUKE1992A
ISOCHLOROGENIC-ACID Seed: DUKE1992A
ISOEUGENOL Seed: DUKE1992A
LANOSTEROL Seed: DUKE1992A
LIGNOCERIC-ACID Seed: DUKE1992A
LINOLEIC-ACID Seed: DUKE1992A
LINOLENIC-ACID Seed 33,300 - 72,000 ppm DUKE1992A
M-CRESOL Seed: DUKE1992A
MANNAN Seed: DUKE1992A
MANNOSE Seed: DUKE1992A
METHIONINE Seed: DUKE1992A
METHYL-1-5-ALPHA-STIGMAST-7-EN-3-BETA-OL Seed: DUKE1992A
MYRISTIC-ACID Seed: DUKE1992A
N-NONACOSANE Seed: DUKE1992A
NIACIN Leaf 52 - 56 ppm DUKE1992A Seed 13 - 14 ppm DUKE1992A
NITROGEN Seed 16,000 - 23,000 ppm DUKE1992A
O-CRESOL Seed: DUKE1992A
O-XYLENOL Seed: DUKE1992A
OBTUSIFOLIOL Seed: DUKE1992A
OLEIC-ACID Seed 5,920 - 12,800 ppm DUKE1992A
OXALIC-ACID Fruit 154 ppm; DUKE1992A
P-COUMARIC-ACID Plant: DUKE1992A
P-CRESOL Seed: DUKE1992A
P-XYLENOL Seed: DUKE1992A
PALMITIC-ACID Seed 23,680 ppm; DUKE1992A
PECTIN Seed: DUKE1992A
PENTOSANE Seed: DUKE1992A
PENTOSANS Seed: DUKE1992A
PHOSPHORUS Leaf 1,700 - 1,816 ppm DUKE1992A Seed 1,780 - 1,900 ppm DUKE1992A
PROTEIN Leaf 99,000 ppm; DUKE1992A Seed 98,700 - 140,000 ppm DUKE1992A
PUTRESCINE Seed: DUKE1992A
RAFFINOSE Seed: DUKE1992A
RHAMNOSE Seed: DUKE1992A
RIBOFLAVIN Leaf 2 ppm; DUKE1992A Seed 1 ppm; DUKE1992A
SACCHAROSE Seed: DUKE1992A
SCOPOLETIN Seed: DUKE1992A
SINAPIC-ACID Plant: DUKE1992A
SPERMIDINE Seed: DUKE1992A
SPERMINE Seed: DUKE1992A
SQUALENE Seed: DUKE1992A
STACHYOSE Seed: DUKE1992A
STEARIC-ACID Seed 5,920 - 12,800 ppm DUKE1992A
STIGMASTEROL Seed: DUKE1992A
SUGAR Seed 4,300 ppm; DUKE1992A
TANNIC-ACID Seed: DUKE1992A
TANNIN Seed 90,000 ppm; DUKE1992A
TETRACOSIC-ACID Seed: DUKE1992A
THEOBROMINE Leaf: DUKE1992A Seed 18 ppm; DUKE1992A
THEOPHYLLINE Leaf: DUKE1992A Seed: DUKE1992A
THIAMIN Seed 2 ppm; DUKE1992A
TRIGONELLINE Seed 3,000 - 13,000 ppm DUKE1992A
WATER Seed 60,000 - 100,000 ppm DUKE1992A
WAX Seed 10,000 - 14,000 ppm DUKE1992A
XANTHINE Seed: DUKE1992A
XYLAN Seed: DUKE1992A
ppm = parts per million
tr = trace


Tue Feb 24 21:09:19 EST 2015

Please send questions and comments to:
James A. Duke
Green Farmacy Garden
8210 Murphy Road
Fulton, MD 20759

or Mary Jo Bogenschutz (E-Mail: godwinm001@hawaii.rr.com)
Dr. Duke does not recommend self diagnosis or self medication. Please see the disclaimer for more information.