[MissC]

Your really should not be considering this unless you are prepared for the possibility that success may push you into going for the full sex change "works".

Off the top of my head, I'm guessing that between 25-50% of the people who grow breasts on here go on towards full transition.

I know that has been a thing here... and I don't buy it. At least, not in the way it's been discussed here. I do not see a causal link between taking estrogenic herbs, and a desire to have one's genitalia removed.

There is some serious psychological shit behind that! I mean, really!

I do not think we can actually blame the humble pueraria mirifica for that.

[bryony]

Your really should not be considering this unless you are prepared for the possibility that success may push you into going for the full sex change "works".

Off the top of my head, I'm guessing that between 25-50% of the people who grow breasts on here go on towards full transition.

I know that has been a thing here... and I don't buy it. At least, not in the way it's been discussed here. I do not see a causal link between taking estrogenic herbs, and a desire to have one's genitalia removed.

There is some serious psychological shit behind that! I mean, really!

I do not think we can actually blame the humble pueraria mirifica for that.

Well, I started off saying
"A few points (every one of which is simply my opinion, it should be said)"

I'm not aware of any qualified doctors or psychiatrists contributing here on a regular basis, so anything anyone says in an opinion, including your thoughts, yes?

The fact that you cannot see a causal link between taking estrogenic herbs, and a desire to have one's genitalia removed isn't relevant to the discussion - it wasn't even what I said, if you re-read it closely.

In plainer terms, what I have seen in my 3 years contributing and lurking, is that there are significant numbers of people, including me, suffering from gender dysphoria who come across PM, and get huge mental benefits and significant body feminisation.

These effects, combined, give some of them, particularly the younger and physically gifted, the confidence to, first go out in the evenings as women, then later they spend more and more time at home then at work, until they find they are being called "Miss" or "Madam". Such people, and you know who they are, decide that they've had enough of playing the male role and go on to living full time.

It is a small step from there depending on who you are - I know you are immune, but many aren't - I wouldn't have been under the right circumstances - to going on towards full transition.

Neither you nor I know what kind of psychology would affect the O.P but I know at least 3 contributors who have been through that who started off wanting nothing more than breasts and are now transitioning or have done.

You can't expect everyone to have your down-to-Earth acceptance of the new world order...

B.

[MysticDwagon]

Your really should not be considering this unless you are prepared for the possibility that success may push you into going for the full sex change "works".

Off the top of my head, I'm guessing that between 25-50% of the people who grow breasts on here go on towards full transition.

I know that has been a thing here... and I don't buy it. At least, not in the way it's been discussed here. I do not see a causal link between taking estrogenic herbs, and a desire to have one's genitalia removed.

There is some serious psychological shit behind that! I mean, really!

I do not think we can actually blame the humble pueraria mirifica for that.

this is very true. any NBE out there will NOT change you mentally into wanting to go through with a full gender change(i.e. as a male, if hetero, NBE will not make you desire females less and males more), however, with hightened estrogen levels, you will have emotional changes while in a NBE program. you may be calmer, possibly even mellow, but when you do hit an emotional peak, it will hit you harder than you ever recall it happening before.
that being said, when i got my doctor involved in my NBE adventure, she warned that to much estrogen, not enough testosterone and DHT will 1. make your sterile, and 2, cause erectile disfunction as long as your hormones are "out of balance"(which some people mistranslate into not having sexual desire towards the oposite sex) and if done for extended periods of time(years) your body will get used to the forced hormone level changes and become permanent. the trick is balancing everything out so you block the majority of DHT conversion without dropping it to near zero, and trying to keep your E levels just high enough to encourage breast growth without completely overshadowing your natural T levels.
if you plan on full transition, or if you plan on being the beta in a same sex relationship, then go NBE crazy if you drop your DHT to squat and your E levels will repalce your lost DHT levels(both are made from converting some of your testosterone), then with proper cycling, breasts will litterally balloon out quickly, but at a price

[GoneGirl]

any NBE out there will NOT change you mentally into wanting to go through with a full gender change

Yes, it can. It happened to me.

....(i.e. as a male, if hetero, NBE will not make you desire females less and males more.....

that cannot be stated categorically. Sexual orientation is also on a spectrum, and is independent of gender identity. Many transsexuals switch sexual orientation under the changed life circumstances.

Taking PM for its estrogenic properties is like taking a low dose of estradiol. It IS HRT and will have the same effect in time. It WILL activate certain estrogen receptors in your body including those in the brain.

PM WILL drive down your T level, and may have a feminizing effect on the brain. However, it will NOT produce a female gender brain where it does not exist. It is generally believed that gender identity happens during fetal development and cannot be undone.

These ideas have been widely discussed in this forum.

Clara

[The First Aria]

Sounds solid to me bryony.

[The First Aria]

I believe, Clara, that if you searched your soul you would say that you were pre disposed to fall into the "Pink Fog" as so many have said.

That's tantamount to saying that Dried Bull Testes will convert a gay man into a heterosexual... I don't buy that either.

I do believe, it can soften your outlook, maybe make you look at things from a different angle, but not make you "go all the way".

I have been trying to help "Mother Nature" by speeding up Gynecomastia with Herbs and now PM for bout 2 1/4 yrs now. I love my boobs, but not to the point of chopping, altering with surgery any other part of my body.

[Demon Lord Etna]

3) People have mentioned how slim you are and putting on fat to grow breasts.

WARNING. This is true BUT if your estrogen balance is low compared to your testosterone then any fat you put on will go to your belly.

Once you start growing breast tissue with the aid of something like PM, that is the time to start putting weight on, when it will go to your breasts, hips and butt. In practice, altering your hormone balance in favour of estrogen tends to encourage weight gain anyway.

Weight change is a bit of a double edged sword. I found that losing weight, particularly in my stomach and hips, made by breast growth more pronounced and noticeable.

WARNING 3.

If you think you might want kids at any stage, get your sperm frozen, cos PM taken long enough WILL make you sterile.

If you want boobs and fertility, then I guess noogling and massage are the only alternatives.

B.

I should probably, just for curiosity, get my sperm count measured. I know I still get erections and ejaculations, but it takes significantly longer.

[bryony]

I should probably, just for curiosity, get my sperm count measured. I know I still get erections and ejaculations, but it takes significantly longer.

Hi Etna!

With PM, I have been on an average 3g / day for the last 3.5 years. As an oldie, my T was probably pretty low at the start, but I was dry after a year or two. Pretty much gone down below now. On the bright side the upper parts take between 10-30 secs to do the job and there is absolutely no refractory period (unless 3-5 seconds counts!). Just a matter of how long my dear wife is willing to do the work.... and the best bit is no mental imagery required whatsoever. I am lucky enough to have the right genes though. Ironically my wife prefers her back rubbed to her front!

B.

[SarahSchilling]

Pm didn't change my gender lol. Ever since I can remember, I've always wished I was female. Pm simply made the idea of transition more....palatable. The desire existed since I was a child.

This is just my experience though. Others may have different ones.

[GoneGirl]

I agree. Sarah. Gender identity is inborn. Some people sense it at an early age, as you did. Others discover it later in life, usually by pealing away the false shell of masculinity that they built around themselves, as I experienced. But, either way, at the core, we are both women, we are both transsexual, and, speaking for myself, love being an authentic human being at last. PM simply helped adjust my hormone balance to make being and accepting myself as female easier. There is NO WAY PM can convert a mostly male gender identity into a mostly female identity.

Clara