[Man2breasts]

I have been all my life living in confusing male female world in my head, although my body is male, my head has always been girly inside. Of which I have suppressed from early aged till now, apart from PM I take BO albeit in smaller doses as some, but if I really lose the use of my penis, does not shock me or disgust me, my partner she has problems in the female area of her genitalia. She is fully aware of what I take and what it is doing to my body. We love eachother more than what goes on between the sheets, and respect eachother wholeheartedly.
If after some time I take to wanting to wear ladies clothes, then I shall, and no doubt become a diva in the clothes shops....

[bryony]

Pm didn't change my gender lol. Ever since I can remember, I've always wished I was female. Pm simply made the idea of transition more....palatable. The desire existed since I was a child.

This is just my experience though. Others may have different ones.

That's kind of agreeing with my original point, Sarah. "Pm simply made the idea of transition more....palatable".

My intention, as ever, when people ask for advice, is to provide information. I never said PM changes your gender. I too have always wished to be female. If I was single, your age, and could afford it, I would be doing what you are too, I think.

I see PM as a gateway drug. Someone like I was would never have dreamed of going to get a diagnosis and a prescription for Estriadol. I had no idea of the hugely beneficial effects on my mental health that doing so would bring.

Now, having experienced these beneficial effects, if the worst happened, and, say, the EU banned all imports of unregulated herbal medicines (they've already ruined the strength of many traditional herbal remedies here) I would have no choice to go to my physician for the real thing.

If I were, as I said, young and single with the same kind of low-level depression and sexual problems that I had when I was, say 25, and I came across PM, after a short while I would have been doing what you do.

Whether you argue that it is inevitable or not, the idea emerges because of taking the PM.

That's why I feel it is incumbent to warn new arrivals that they make think they are here to grow breasts for a bit of fun and fantasy but they might wind up going the whole way.

It would be irresponsible not to tell them that.

The sole reason that I started taking PM was because my temperament, then, was of a middle aged autogynephile who needed props in the bedroom in order to complete the sex act.

As the age-related effects of failing testosterone along with my autogynephilia started causing erectile dysfunction, I ordered PM because the idea of breasts was thrilling enough that I thought it would do the job.

3 years later, and I would almost certainly be going through the system too if it weren't for F.A.M (family, age, money - in that order)

So I think the point is valid.

B.

[flamesabers]

As others have stated, I agree that pm isn't some sort of mind-control agent.

Bryony,

I find it very coincidental how you say if you started NBE at age 25, you would have gone on to transition. That's the same age I started taking pm.

I concur with your decision to warn newcomers of the complete story of what NBE truly entails. For myself though, I have not seriously considered, nor do I want to go the whole way.

[bryony]

As others have stated, I agree that pm isn't some sort of mind-control agent.

Bryony,

I find it very coincidental how you say if you started NBE at age 25, you would have gone on to transition. That's the same age I started taking pm.

I concur with your decision to warn newcomers of the complete story of what NBE truly entails. For myself though, I have not seriously considered, nor do I want to go the whole way.

Well... to be fair, I say it with the hindsight of modern technology and what is achievable in the world of the internet. What would really have happened back in 1977, supposing PM to have been readily available, who knows?

However, I still remain firmly of the view that where someone is young and single, it is a perfectly valid decision to take, even if a no-op course were taken. Any opposition that I have ever voiced is out of concern for innocent 3rd parties.

So whatever you do is a good choice!

B.

[SarahSchilling]

Pm didn't change my gender lol. Ever since I can remember, I've always wished I was female. Pm simply made the idea of transition more....palatable. The desire existed since I was a child.

This is just my experience though. Others may have different ones.

That's kind of agreeing with my original point, Sarah. "Pm simply made the idea of transition more....palatable".

My intention, as ever, when people ask for advice, is to provide information. I never said PM changes your gender. I too have always wished to be female. If I was single, your age, and could afford it, I would be doing what you are too, I think.

I see PM as a gateway drug. Someone like I was would never have dreamed of going to get a diagnosis and a prescription for Estriadol. I had no idea of the hugely beneficial effects on my mental health that doing so would bring.

Now, having experienced these beneficial effects, if the worst happened, and, say, the EU banned all imports of unregulated herbal medicines (they've already ruined the strength of many traditional herbal remedies here) I would have no choice to go to my physician for the real thing.

If I were, as I said, young and single with the same kind of low-level depression and sexual problems that I had when I was, say 25, and I came across PM, after a short while I would have been doing what you do.

Whether you argue that it is inevitable or not, the idea emerges because of taking the PM.

That's why I feel it is incumbent to warn new arrivals that they make think they are here to grow breasts for a bit of fun and fantasy but they might wind up going the whole way.

It would be irresponsible not to tell them that.

The sole reason that I started taking PM was because my temperament, then, was of a middle aged autogynephile who needed props in the bedroom in order to complete the sex act.

As the age-related effects of failing testosterone along with my autogynephilia started causing erectile dysfunction, I ordered PM because the idea of breasts was thrilling enough that I thought it would do the job.

3 years later, and I would almost certainly be going through the system too if it weren't for F.A.M (family, age, money - in that order)

So I think the point is valid.

B.

I don't think the idea really emerges because of PM, because, if one is driven to taken something to grow breasts....something has already emerged. Some find that the desire for transition fades, and they can be happy without it. Some don't.

Everyone is different, but I'm pretty sure trying to grow boobs is a sign of some level of unfulfilled femininity.

Just my opinion though....one colored heavily by my own experience.

[EvaMarie]

Huh The idea emerged for me when I was 14 in the 80's when I first heard about the "sex change" and the knowledge it was even possible... It came back hard in my 30's when I decided to try CD'ing seriously, decided I shouldn't do it at the time because I was terrified of friends and family finding out and even maybe losing my very high paying job... Then at 44 Id had enough of fighting it and I knew my life was half over... I was already well on the way before I took any PM... Id been shaving everywhere and even going out as woman shopping for clothes ect. a lot for about 3 months...

I met a very kinky woman I confided in who rather enjoyed the idea of feminizing me ect... I wont say I passed right away but with her help it wasn't at all that humiliating and I began to see the possibilities... What seemed hopelessly out of reach wasn't really after all..... To actually share my secret with someone who accepted me was the most liberating thing id ever done and I knew even then there was no going back.... Just doubts about whether or not I could ever really pass as female at my age... I felt like it was too late and I was some kind of freak and not sure how far I wanted to go...

I honestly thought NBE was just a BS scam but I tried it because I wasn't sure if I was just a perv or something and "not really trans" but T was a big part of all of that... I took a while for me to sort out my feelings, it became clear pretty fast Id never be happy trying to be somewhere in between though.... When it started to actually work and I loved the effects on my body and mind I had to accept the fact that I needed to go a lot farther than just trying to be andro and CD'ing... Its a HARD scary decision when you get to the point that your looking at steps that are irreversible.... I went full time about a month BEFORE I started PM and Ive never looked back... 12-25-13 was the last day I tried to pretend I was male... By 2 1/2 months on NBE Id decided I needed the real thing and ordered E and spiro online.... I started laser on my face and electrolysis shortly after that... Found a doc to prescribe HRT ect... It was on and with every irreversible step I took to feminize I knew that it was right for me and I just wanted more

PM was just one of the smaller first steps though and while I'll admit at first I was worried it was clouding my judgement.... I knew that wasn't really true because Id also been writing long letters holding nothing back to an EX GF months before I started NBE.... Sometimes even now I like to revisit those writings and remember where my mind was at when I didn't even own a single piece of womens clothing, T was finally starting to lower naturally but still there making me feel as uneasy as ever and I was just wondering WTF was wrong with me

So no I dont believe PM or even legit HRT can make a person do things the dont really want to do anyway... Id did open my mind to the possibilities that seemed out of reach though

[elainecd]

Pm didn't change my gender lol. Ever since I can remember, I've always wished I was female. Pm simply made the idea of transition more....palatable. The desire existed since I was a child.

This is just my experience though. Others may have different ones.

exactly how I feel, I just kept it down (even though it surfaced many times) from my late 20's to mid-50's.

I'm in the wrong body ...and freely accept it now.

[bryony]

Let's step back a bit, people. I think there isn't a real argument here. Someone posted pictures as a newbie, and asked for advice. My warning was to the effect that once you start growing breasts, there was a very real possibility that you can go on to full transition. This is a fact, borne out by our own experience!

My opinion is that once you start growing breasts with NBE, even if you are only curious, there is good possibility that success may encourage you to go further until transition is inevitable. The method that gives most success, as far as I can see, is PM.

Whatever the mechanism, I think there are plenty of examples on this forum, including people who did not think they were transsexual until they took PM, for this possibility to be self-evident.

I think, therefore, when someone comes on here with the idea of growing breasts, it is only fair to alert them of that possibility, don't you? I think it would be irresponsible not to.

We don't need to argue about whether PM causes it, or just enables someone who is that way inclined to see the possibilities.

A good analogy is with recreational drugs. They are easier to avoid taking in the first place than to quit after an appreciation of them develops. Think alcohol, tobacco, heroin, crystal meth. You could argue that, much as most of us can become addicted to drugs having been exposed to them, but not otherwise, those of us with gender dysphoria can become addicted to success in breast growing and the idea of becoming a woman intensifies.

And there are two aspects to drug dependency; the physiological and the psychological. I am hooked on PM in both ways. As my weight loss continues, and I see a more feminine body in the mirror, I can really see the temptation to go further on a personal basis. I can't give it up because I can't go back to my old mental health issues; but the feminisation plays to my dysphoria.

As I said earlier, if PM had been around when I was in my 20s, there is a very high probability that I would have taken the same route as Sarah. I was a lot slimmer and better looking then, for one thing! Quite likely, I would have lived a life free of the anxieties and depression that dogged me for the last 20 years prior to 2011, when I found PM. However I would not then have had my wonderful children. Freezing sperm is all very well, but IVF isn't 100% successful, and the ability to find a life partner willing to be inseminated when I was a woman might not have been easy. Indeed, at that stage, I may well have found a male partner.

So. Given an appropriate time machine, would I go back and do it differently? No, of course not. Because, despite the suffering I have had to deal with, I have had the joy of my wife and two wonderful children. Having known and loved them, how could I erase their existence?

Therefore, if we simply encourage all newcomers to grow breasts without warning them of the possibility of their eventual transition, they would not have the opportunity to decide that perhaps they would rather try have a conventional family life, with all its upsides and downsides. Informed choices.

B.

[EvaMarie]

Well honestly were all adults here... I never really got the whole "Im a man who wants to grow tits" deal but Im just fine with whatever anyone wants to do... Whatever makes you happy for whatever reason as long as its not at someone else's expense... Live and let live I say

You make it sound like someone with GD who is on or walking the fence for whatever the reason... Comes here and finds some relief through NBE and maybe insight, inspiration and support from those farther along.... Begins to see some feminization and the possibilities and then decides to go for transition or even just further explore their feminine side is a bad thing Sure it doesn't always work out but Id say most that go the whole TS transition route end up far happier eventually but its a long road and its definitely not for everyone... You cant force this on anyone, your either trans or your not right??? Yea it can be confusing and even people who eventually go on to transition can go a LONG time living a double life before it has to happen... I do get the whole TV/CD angle as well, been there and done that and thats cool too...

Really though Id say any male who comes here to this nice pretty pink forum wanting to grow titties has some form of GD already no??? It shouldn't be a shock that some here decide to jump the fence for good

Yes taking an herbal regimen that has known feminizing effects on males can lead you to places you never dreamed were possible BUT it wont make you do anything you didn't already want to do going in

How many here go by their given or another male name???

[SarahSchilling]

Really though Id say any male who comes here to this nice pretty pink forum wanting to grow titties has some form of GD already no??? It shouldn't be a shock that some here decide to jump the fence for good

Yes taking an herbal regimen that has known feminizing effects on males can lead you to places you never dreamed were possible BUT it wont make you do anything you didn't already want to do going in

How many here go by their given or another male name???

This is how I feel about it, exactly. Thanks for saving me the trouble of typing it, Eva.