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07-04-2015, 02:36 AM
I've been taking PM for about 6 months now, and I've seen some results. (Mostly sore nipples, a little bit of breast growth, and I swear my butt has gotten larger. :-) )
Results are good enough that it's confirmed to me that transition is really where I'm headed. I have an appointment with an endocrinologist in early May to talk about getting on HRT.
So, with that in mind, I'm sure he's going to want to do blood work. I don't want my E level to be inflated, but I also don't want to go off PM until I have to. Any idea how long it would take to get my levels back to normal after stopping PM? I currently take 1000mg twice a day.
Also, for what it's worth, I have low T kind of naturally, if that changes anything.
Thanks!
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Hello Becky.
As far as I know, a number of members have reported that pm's phytoestrogens don't show up in blood work.
In any case, since you're planning on getting on getting HRT, I think it would be best to be upfront with your endocrinologist about the herbs you're taking.
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You'll see a reduction in total Testosterone. PM isn't estrogen, nor will any type of pharma show up in the blood. Phytoestrogens only mimic estrogen, and it actually blocks the bodies own natural production of estrogen by way of estrogen receptors.
Talking PM with hrt is counter productive for breast growth. Hrt activates estrogen receptor alpha (ER-a), that's the growth receptor. Most phytoestrogen activate estrogen receptor beta, which greatly reduces breast cancer exposure.
Adding progesterone cream will regain estrogen receptor sensitivity from estrogen dominance. In other words, if you notice breast growth fizzle out after a few months..........add PC.
Good luck and welcome Becky.
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(07-04-2015, 03:41 AM)Lotus Wrote: Talking PM with hrt is counter productive for breast growth. Hrt activates estrogen receptor alpha (ER-a), that's the growth receptor. Most phytoestrogen activate estrogen receptor beta, which greatly reduces breast cancer exposure.
Yeah, I'm definitely not planning to take PM & HRT together.
(07-04-2015, 03:41 AM)Lotus Wrote: Adding progesterone cream will regain estrogen receptor sensitivity from estrogen dominance. In other words, if you notice breast growth fizzle out after a few months..........add PC.
Good luck and welcome Becky.
Good to know, thank you!
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(07-04-2015, 02:55 AM)flamesabers Wrote: Hello Becky.
As far as I know, a number of members have reported that pm's phytoestrogens don't show up in blood work.
In any case, since you're planning on getting on getting HRT, I think it would be best to be upfront with your endocrinologist about the herbs you're taking.
Yeah, I plan to. I just didn't want to throw off the blood work and make things take longer. Thanks!
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I cannot say scientifically, but a number of folks on here who take breaks from PM find that the symptoms of going off PM tend to achieve a relatively steady state with 2-3 weeks. Perhaps that suggests it takes that long for PM to be "out of your system".
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(07-04-2015, 04:07 AM)sfem Wrote: I cannot say scientifically, but a number of folks on here who take breaks from PM find that the symptoms of going off PM tend to achieve a relatively steady state with 2-3 weeks. Perhaps that suggests it takes that long for PM to be "out of your system".
varies for me, GD though comes back in 3-5 days....
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(07-04-2015, 05:56 AM)Lenneth Wrote: (07-04-2015, 04:07 AM)sfem Wrote: I cannot say scientifically, but a number of folks on here who take breaks from PM find that the symptoms of going off PM tend to achieve a relatively steady state with 2-3 weeks. Perhaps that suggests it takes that long for PM to be "out of your system".
varies for me, GD though comes back in 3-5 days....
It's a good question, although I did find some related research a few months ago, but came empty on the half life of PM, don't know if it exists aside from personal experience.
Btw, nice teamwork.
(18-11-2014, 07:59 PM)Lotus Wrote: We've only had one thread on half life's, time to unlock NBE (hrt too) and explore the timing of when and how much to take: 
Half-life: The period of time required for the concentration or amount of drug in the body to be reduced to exactly one-half of a given concentration or amount.
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The half-life of steroid hormone receptors ranges from 2 to 4 hours for ERα 4 hours for AR, 7 to 10 hours for PR, and 19 hours for GR. The relatively long half-life of the steroid hormone receptors strongly suggests that the receptor proteins are recycled before eventual degradation.
(17-11-2014, 03:09 AM)Lotus Wrote: Steroid hormones generally autoregulate their receptor levels. Desensitization or downregulation of receptor numbers, measured by decreased ligand binding capacity, occurs in response to exposure to high levels of ligand and involves the reduction in receptor mRNA levels, decreasing the number of available receptors. The receptor gene may be negatively regulated by the hormonal ligand itself through its receptor protein interacting with specific HREs in the gene. Upregulation or self-priming may occur in an analogous fashion. Steroid hormones can regulate receptor levels for other hormones (e.g. E2 increases PR levels in estrogen-responsive tissues). Progesterone can downregulate its own receptors, as well as ERα and ERβ. This increase or decrease in receptor levels in homologous or heterologous regulation can be caused by alterations in receptor gene transcription or decay rates for receptor mRNA or protein.
(17-11-2014, 03:09 AM)Lotus Wrote: So imo take what we know about NBE and throw out the play book. Meaning a confusion exists (well imo) of when and how long to take supplements that will be effective. It also explains that how receptor recycling (degradation) and not just steriod receptors gets excreted and recycled again and again. What this means is (and I'll try to explain so all can follow), that taking supplements in shorter (and less) bursts to follow the steroid half life's (this means receptor control too) cycle.
Single-dose pharmacokinetics of sublingual versus oral administration of micronized 17 beta-estradiol
CONCLUSION:
Sublingual administration of micronized 17 beta-estradiol results in a rapid, burst-like absorption into the systemic circulation, yielding high E2 levels that fall rapidly over the first 6 hours.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9052581
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The apparent half-life of E2 after discontinuing a transdermal E2 patch is 2.7 h or 161 min.
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The kinetics of Puerarin (after 7.5g/kg water extract of the decoction) were a half-life of 46.9 minutes (β-Half life of 925.7min) and AUC of 790.3μ min/mL; a Cmax of 1.41ug/mL (3.39umol/L) and a Tmax of 18.5 minutes; suggesting rapid absorption.
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Elimination half-life of endogenous testosterone is 10 to 100 minutes and is dependent on the amount of free testosterone in the plasma. Exogenous testosterone, such as testosterone cypionate (when injected intra-muscularly) has a half-life of approximately eight days.
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Fenugreek has a "shelf life of 5 years" (any preppers lol?)
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I guess I'll stop PM a week before my appointment and see what happens.
Thanks!
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(07-04-2015, 07:05 PM)BeckyWoodrow Wrote: I guess I'll stop PM a week before my appointment and see what happens.
Thanks!
Since you mentioned you're planning on telling the doctor anyway, why don't you call the office and ask what the doctor recommends? That way you know if you would need to stop sooner, or if it really doesn't make a difference. At least it would be a more informed decision.
