[bryony]

I've discovered an interesting website, thirdwaytrans.com

It has the following subtitle:
"Alternate ways to think about gender dysphoria, gender identity, retransition, detransition and transgender issues from a former trans woman and psychology grad student."

This is someone who transitioned at age 19 and detransitioned at age 39. Afterwards, his experiences led him to become qualified as a pyschotherapist, and his essays have a lot of psychological aspects.

I was particularly taken with this one, that resonated with me quite a bit.
dysphoria-is-very-ordinary

I know there are a few Gender Dysphorics here who, like me, for one reason or another intend not to transition, so I thought that this might be a useful resource for stimulating ideas.

B.

[Lenneth]

I haven't fully read all of both of those yet but i'm not sure on them, Ive done quite a lot of research on GD and found out a lot of things that most even in the medical industry are not up to speed on.

I'll post more when I get the time, been proverbially drowning in stuff to get done as of late....

[sfem]

When the author says transgender is new and a product of western queer culture, it demonstrates that they have allowed their desire for acceptance to override academic or journalistic integrity. I'm sorry they have had such a difficult time finding acceptance, but to take self recrimination as the only option is false and harmful to the advancement of the acceptance they claim to espouse.
I'm certain they do represent a certain subset of personailties. It just isn't a subset that I belong to, or would want to belong to.

[Misty0732]

I've read through a few of the articles. My early impression was the concepts are over-simplified, but upon further reading I realized that's not the case.

I do believe that GD has multiple causes, and I believe that many of the members here express a number of those causes. One reason I tend to avoid most of the boards dedicated to TG/TS issues is that most of them reject any idea of autogynephila. I found this article very interesting:

http://thirdwaytrans.com/2015/03/10/on-agp/

The most interesting part to me was the discussions of the systems of the brain that control "attraction" and "lust". The author's conclusion that AGP is not a fetish (since the attraction system of the brain is involved as well as the lust system) was something that I had never considered.

My ultimate goal is to successfully resolve my GD. Some find that transition is the only way to do that, but for others (and I include myself here) transition is not the answer. The author theorizes above that it should be possible to break the "attachment" component of AGP because that component is responsible for the forming of relationships (and humans routinely make and break relationships). He cautions that this can only occur when the underlying psychological cause for attachment is removed. He also says that the "erotic imprinting" (the lust component) cannot be changed.

I'm personally going to explore this direction a bit more. To be able to truly eliminate my GD would be the best outcome I could imagine.

Misty

[bryony]

Hi all,

I'm glad some of you found it interesting and were open minded enough to have a good look.

I found the article on AGP interesting too, as I have always identified that way.

The internet truly is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, it allows the transfer of unorthodox opinions, subverting the "gatekeepers" of scientific enquiry - which is very good indeed, if the gatekeepers have been corrupted by politics - but on the other hand, media such as twitter allow strident activists to shut down debate, such as the killing off of valid alternative theories such as BBL investigated.

I seriously believe that the "baby has been thrown out with the bathwater".

Maybe there were some deficiencies with BBL's theories - what new scientific theories do not have deficiencies? But they have effectively been trashed because scientists come under pressure from their grant-givers, the politicians, to accommodate niche pressure groups, to the detriment of those who no longer have their own category and get lumped into others.

If transition were always the answer for transsexuals/transgender, why do these instances of de-transitioners occur?

I don't necessarily take these articles as revelatory, but my feeling is that the more information I can find which runs counter to any orthodoxy, the better.

(I'm living proof that orthodox nutritional advice is bogus and bunkum!)

B.

[Lenneth]

When the author says transgender is new and a product of western queer culture, it demonstrates that they have allowed their desire for acceptance to override academic or journalistic integrity. I'm sorry they have had such a difficult time finding acceptance, but to take self recrimination as the only option is false and harmful to the advancement of the acceptance they claim to espouse.
I'm certain they do represent a certain subset of personailties. It just isn't a subset that I belong to, or would want to belong to.

Yes that stood out to me as well, their are mountains of historical references of it existing in ancient times, so saying it is even remotely new is a load of nonsense.

The internet truly is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, it allows the transfer of unorthodox opinions, subverting the "gatekeepers" of scientific enquiry - which is very good indeed, if the gatekeepers have been corrupted by politics - but on the other hand, media such as twitter allow strident activists to shut down debate, such as the killing off of valid alternative theories such as BBL investigated.

I seriously believe that the "baby has been thrown out with the bathwater".

Maybe there were some deficiencies with BBL's theories - what new scientific theories do not have deficiencies? But they have effectively been trashed because scientists come under pressure from their grant-givers, the politicians, to accommodate niche pressure groups, to the detriment of those who no longer have their own category and get lumped into others.

Agreed, The Internet is a double edged sword, and the politicizing of almost everything along with the popularization of trolling has completely thrown out the baby with the bath water with a lot of things.

as I recently said to someone else online on the subject, very little real scientific research has been done into the root cause of gender disphoria, why is down to multiple outside influences as well as various societally and religiously imposed stigmas.

[thirdwaytrans]

Hi,

I am the author of the blog that you are discussing.

I want to clarify what I meant when talking about a particular flavor of transgender as being a construct of Western queer culture. That article is in particular talking about a recent cultural phenomena in the ftm-spectrum community that occurs mostly among young people and is part of online cultures such as tumblr and can be found in women's colleges and various queer communities, i.e. the ones where queer means mostly female-assigned and young.

I am very aware of the existence of cross-gender behaviors and roles in many other cultures both modern and ancient.

What I am trying to say is this:

cross-gender behavior exists in all cultures

cross-gender roles exist in many cultures (i.e. hijra, two spirit, followers of cybele etc.)

the concept of "transgender" and particularly "transsexualism" is a Western cultural idea that is based in more universal thoughts and feelings, concieving of it as a medical condition and in identity terms as Western culture tends to do.

This particular subtype of transsexualism that I was referring to in the article is a cultural phenomena that arose in ~2005 and is part of a subset of queer youth culture.


To make another analogy with homosexuality:

Homosexual behavior and orientation exist in all cultures

Gay identity is a product of Western culture's response to homosexuality.

Queer identity of the 2010s is not the same as Gay identity and in fact is becoming increasingly divorced from homosexuality at all, becoming almost purely a cultural expression of a certain aesthetic and values around gender and sexuality.

[bryony]

Thanks for contributing, 3rdway! I appreciate it, and your website.

B.

[sfem]

"So, now the idea as the gender identity is innate, yet sometimes it is fluid, and sometimes it changes and sometimes it doesn’t, ..."

"More importantly, where were these gender identities throughout history? Cross-gender behavior exists in many different cultures, but these particular ideas are specific to 21st century Western queer culture. "

I'm unclear as to the flavour or subset to which you are referring. Are you saying that gender identity as a function of physiology was a concept that didn't exist prior to 2005? If so, I would suggest that recognition of it may well be a recent thing, but the gender issues, causes, and effects are far from new, even if they are understood differently (possibly better, possibly not) in this age. A reread of the article leads me to think you may be trying to apply the gender binary position to gender fluid individuals and not buying the result. You shouldn't buy it. It is akin to applying a hammer to water. It doesn't work. There are many of us who are tossing the gender binary baby out with the bathwater on purpose.

[The First Aria]

Here is my thoughts.

In the Classical Age, to be a man was akin to being a warrior. How many other men you killed for glory, versus the sheep herder was somewhat looked at as inferior.

Men today are more likened to being a great father, good provider and has taken the role of nurturer. That is somewhat today's standards in many circles.

I do believe the whole spectrum does get redefined according to acceptability of the civilization as a whole. Does that not make it fluid to some degree?

I remember in high school,(late 60's and early 70's) that even though, the Gay Community was starting to take hold, quite a few students still "Queer Bashed". And most unashamedly so.

Now, "Gay, Queer" bashing is looked upon the same as racial slurs and general bullying. Today's society tries to be far more tolerant than that of a generation ago, even to the point of being fashionable and seeping in to even everyday clothes that we all wear.

I wonder if a more live and let live approach wouldn't solve more problems in most Western Cultures in regards to GID than shrinks, pills and guiding a person to turn all the way to trans-sexualism???

If a man, rather gay or not, wore a v neck t-shirt not that long ago, he was often told to quit wearing women's clothing. Now, in Europe, they put on fashion shows of men wearing silky hose and skirt nock offs. How liberating to let people wear what they want, not what's just the norm. I think that thought lines run into NB for straight men as well.

Just my opinion, that and $2 might get u a cup of coffee somewhere.