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Reflections on another cold turkey experiment

#31

(14-04-2015, 01:30 AM)flamesabers Wrote:  I've gone cold turkey from pm for about a solid two months now. Perhaps the most noteworthy change during this period is the envy/admiration I sometimes experience when looking at some females, not the women in fashion magazines, but females you would see on an everyday basis. It's also becoming more abundantly clear as to why my gender identity lies in the realm of obscurity or andrygnony. As much as I have a soft spot for things that would be considered feminine, I also have a rather detached, realist and sometimes harsh perspective on life.

I hope I'm making some sense here.

You're making so much sense to me that I could have written it myself, though probably not worded as well. I have also been doing another break lately and am now starting to ramp back up. I have also, interestingly, decided to continue. My reflections on this latest break have been so similar to yours as to make any further comments on my part irrelevant.

Thanks for sharing!
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#32

(21-04-2015, 12:18 AM)flamesabers Wrote:  
(20-04-2015, 11:44 PM)bryony Wrote:  If you take normal male on the far left and classic transsexual on the far right, I would put you and me to the left of centre and and mid-life-late-transitioner/"lesbian transsexual" to the right of centre.

How would you classify those in left-center of this spectrum?

I think they defy classification - that's why I think it is a spectrum.

Quote:
(20-04-2015, 11:44 PM)bryony Wrote:  I dont want to try to pretend, however successfully (or not - mostly not) that I am a woman, I want to have been born one. Therein lies the dysphoria.

Even though I agree we fall in the same area of the gender identity spectrum, I think our ulterior motives for pursuing NBE but still presenting as male is very different. I think it's simply in my nature to test and blur gender boundaries and expectations regardless of what my bio-sex is.

It's probably a generational thing. You are more comfortable with the hand that life has dealt you than I.

It's a funny thing when the most radical thing you can say in the 21st century (apparently) is that I wish I had been born normal.... that is to say, within one standard deviation from the mean of the normal distribution for sexuality/gender... Smile

B.


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#33

(21-04-2015, 05:44 AM)ClaraKay Wrote:  
(20-04-2015, 11:44 PM)bryony Wrote:  I dont want to try to pretend, however successfully (or not - mostly not) that I am a woman, I want to have been born one. Therein lies the dysphoria.

I now see how we are fundamentally different, Bryony. I don't want to pretend, however successfully, that I am a man, despite having been born one (male sex organs). Therein lies my dysphoria.

Clara

Sounds like two sides of the same coin to me, C ! Except mine is cheaper Big Grin

B.
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#34

Lisia,

Thanks for your feedback. It's good to hear others can relate to me. Big Grin

Quote:If you take normal male on the far left and classic transsexual on the far right, I would put you and me to the left of centre and and mid-life-late-transitioner/"lesbian transsexual" to the right of centre.

Quote:How would you classify those in left-center of this spectrum?


Quote:I think they defy classification - that's why I think it is a spectrum.

What I meant was you described the center-right as being a "lesbian transsexual" however, you did not apply any sort of nickname to those in the area of center-left.

Also, I'm not quite seeing as how our differences can be a generational thing. I grew up in a conservative Christian household where homosexuality was deemed sinful. It wasn't until I did a lot of searching on the Internet in my youth years that I found out about transsexuality and variances in gender identity.
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#35

(21-04-2015, 08:04 PM)bryony Wrote:  
(21-04-2015, 05:44 AM)ClaraKay Wrote:  
(20-04-2015, 11:44 PM)bryony Wrote:  I dont want to try to pretend, however successfully (or not - mostly not) that I am a woman, I want to have been born one. Therein lies the dysphoria.

I now see how we are fundamentally different, Bryony. I don't want to pretend, however successfully, that I am a man, despite having been born one (male sex organs). Therein lies my dysphoria.

Clara

Sounds like two sides of the same coin to me, C ! Except mine is cheaper Big Grin

B.

Maybe, but cheaper? That depends on how you do the accounting.
Clara
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#36

(22-04-2015, 01:03 PM)flamesabers Wrote:  Lisia,

Thanks for your feedback. It's good to hear others can relate to me. Big Grin

Quote:If you take normal male on the far left and classic transsexual on the far right, I would put you and me to the left of centre and and mid-life-late-transitioner/"lesbian transsexual" to the right of centre.

Quote:How would you classify those in left-center of this spectrum?


Quote:I think they defy classification - that's why I think it is a spectrum.

What I meant was you described the center-right as being a "lesbian transsexual" however, you did not apply any sort of nickname to those in the area of center-left.

Oh, I see. Well, as you know, I have a lot of time for the definition of autogynephile. Heterosexual in the cisgender sense, but with a strong desire to actually _be_ an instance of the kind of woman that you find desirable.

Since the definition incorporates those who go on to be "Lesbian transwomen", I suppose I could call myself a pre-op or non-op autogynephile.

Quote:Also, I'm not quite seeing as how our differences can be a generational thing. I grew up in a conservative Christian household where homosexuality was deemed sinful. It wasn't until I did a lot of searching on the Internet in my youth years that I found out about transsexuality and variances in gender identity.

Yes, well that was your household, but not society in general wasn't it? Unless you were tucked away with the Amish and had no access to TV, Radio or magazines, you were exposed to the way the world had changed from when I was your age.

Some context: I was born 5 years after the end of WWII and most of adult society had existed in a time when men were men and supported their wives who looked after the kids.

When I was in my early teens, homosexuality was still a crime in the UK. People had changed their sex (as it was called then) but were still legally their birth sex and could not marry. They could live with someone, because homosexuality had been legalised by then, or they could marry in Europe, but such a marriage was not recognised here.

Things only started loosening up in my mid-20s, and although I found out about my "problems" there was no way I could have told any of my family about it. There was no political correctness then. People could be and were bullied with impunity. No anti-discrimination rules. If you felt you did not fit in societal norms then, you knew that you were weird! Taboo and stigma were far more powerful before social networking on the internet replaced them.

And the thing is, even though intellectually I worked through all that stuff over the years, the deep set desire to be normal is so ingrained, so much part of the culture that developed me as an individual, I still find it hard to be comfortable about what I am.

I can accept it, like I would learn to accept an amputation, but I fear that I'll never be comfortable about it.

What I said was
Quote:It's probably a generational thing. You are more comfortable with the hand that life has dealt you than I.

Once you had access to the internet (only commonly available when I was in my 40s) you could see how many people there were like us - even a very small proportion of a very large number is still pretty big. Without that sense of being alone, without even a support forum like this with people to talk to, without familial commitments undertake a generation ago when "normal" ruled, you can feel comfortable being what you are.



B.
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#37

(22-04-2015, 01:40 PM)ClaraKay Wrote:  
(21-04-2015, 08:04 PM)bryony Wrote:  
(21-04-2015, 05:44 AM)ClaraKay Wrote:  
(20-04-2015, 11:44 PM)bryony Wrote:  I dont want to try to pretend, however successfully (or not - mostly not) that I am a woman, I want to have been born one. Therein lies the dysphoria.

I now see how we are fundamentally different, Bryony. I don't want to pretend, however successfully, that I am a man, despite having been born one (male sex organs). Therein lies my dysphoria.

Clara

Sounds like two sides of the same coin to me, C ! Except mine is cheaper Big Grin

B.

Maybe, but cheaper? That depends on how you do the accounting.
Clara

The only way that matters when money is short! Sad

Think Mr Micawber's recipe for happiness:

"Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen shillings and six pence, result happiness.

Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery." - Charles Dickens, David Copperfield



B.
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#38

(22-04-2015, 11:44 PM)bryony Wrote:  
(22-04-2015, 01:40 PM)ClaraKay Wrote:  
(21-04-2015, 08:04 PM)bryony Wrote:  
(21-04-2015, 05:44 AM)ClaraKay Wrote:  
(20-04-2015, 11:44 PM)bryony Wrote:  I dont want to try to pretend, however successfully (or not - mostly not) that I am a woman, I want to have been born one. Therein lies the dysphoria.

I now see how we are fundamentally different, Bryony. I don't want to pretend, however successfully, that I am a man, despite having been born one (male sex organs). Therein lies my dysphoria.

Clara

Sounds like two sides of the same coin to me, C ! Except mine is cheaper Big Grin

B.

Maybe, but cheaper? That depends on how you do the accounting.
Clara

The only way that matters when money is short! Sad

Think Mr Micawber's recipe for happiness:

"Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen shillings and six pence, result happiness.

Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery." - Charles Dickens, David Copperfield



B.

Yes, I've read the book. I felt sorry for Mr. Micawber's financial situation, as I do yours, Bryony.

I'm extremely grateful for the position I'm in today, with a supportive spouse and enough extra money to treat my transgender condition. They say money can't buy happiness, but in my case it certainly has. I earned that extra money living and working as a man in a man's world. I'll spend it as a woman....

Clara
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