In my opinion, it is wrong to be critical of your wife.
At our individual counselling sessions at the Gender clinic, my wife was told that the gender issues I am dealing with are in no way her fault and that she shouldn't attribute blame to herself. It was pointed out to her that, for whatever reason, BE IT NEED OR CHOICE , that I was the one who had broken the original contract which we had made under our marriage vows. Having reflected on this, I have to agree that this is pretty much the reality of the situation.
Meanwhile, It was being suggested to me that I might well have to accept that our relationship may never be the same again and that we might, if we wanted to remain together, have to redefine what we wanted and expected from each other with the compromises that that would entail. After getting over the jolt that this gave me, again, I have to agree this was a true reflection of the reality.
It strikes me that there are a couple of different scenarios which could be happening to you within the above framework.
a) You are doing what you are doing as a lifestyle choice rather than a deep seated necessity. In this case, then what happens is down to you alone although possibly in negotiation with your wife. You have to weigh up the relative priority you give to marriage vs gender expression and decide which one has to go or at least be compromised.
b) You have a full on gender identity crisis which you HAVE to deal with. In this case you have ceded responsibility to your wife to decide what she wants as it is you who have broken the contract. You will probably argue that it is not your fault that you are in this situation, but that is actually immaterial. The best thing you can do, assuming you want to retain some form of relationship with her, is to explain everything again and again but possibly in stages to avoid causing an extreme reaction. Drip feed the revelations and information allowing each step to take root before piling on further bombshells. Expose her to the examples of others who have managed to keep relationships alive - there are a lot of interesting and educational examples out there in internet land. Accept and discuss that your relationship may not be the same as it was and try to map out a new path acceptable to both - there will probably be some compromise here. Above all, don't make the mistake I did which was to seriously, seriously underestimate the degree of adjustment she is having to make. In retrospect now I can see some of what a wife has to go through, I didn't 'get it' at the time. Give it loads of time for her to make the adjustments she needs to - it seems like you have been dealing with this for some time - presumably it is all a bit new to her.
There are 'happy ever after' examples out there - we are one of them. We still don't have a shared sex life again yet, although that seems to be getting very much on the cards again, I have made some minor compromises to my preferred behaviour - but then, that is how any successful relationship flourishes. Its taken considerable time and the commitment of both of us, but we are now closer than we have ever been.
Hope this helps
Miranda
At our individual counselling sessions at the Gender clinic, my wife was told that the gender issues I am dealing with are in no way her fault and that she shouldn't attribute blame to herself. It was pointed out to her that, for whatever reason, BE IT NEED OR CHOICE , that I was the one who had broken the original contract which we had made under our marriage vows. Having reflected on this, I have to agree that this is pretty much the reality of the situation.
Meanwhile, It was being suggested to me that I might well have to accept that our relationship may never be the same again and that we might, if we wanted to remain together, have to redefine what we wanted and expected from each other with the compromises that that would entail. After getting over the jolt that this gave me, again, I have to agree this was a true reflection of the reality.
It strikes me that there are a couple of different scenarios which could be happening to you within the above framework.
a) You are doing what you are doing as a lifestyle choice rather than a deep seated necessity. In this case, then what happens is down to you alone although possibly in negotiation with your wife. You have to weigh up the relative priority you give to marriage vs gender expression and decide which one has to go or at least be compromised.
b) You have a full on gender identity crisis which you HAVE to deal with. In this case you have ceded responsibility to your wife to decide what she wants as it is you who have broken the contract. You will probably argue that it is not your fault that you are in this situation, but that is actually immaterial. The best thing you can do, assuming you want to retain some form of relationship with her, is to explain everything again and again but possibly in stages to avoid causing an extreme reaction. Drip feed the revelations and information allowing each step to take root before piling on further bombshells. Expose her to the examples of others who have managed to keep relationships alive - there are a lot of interesting and educational examples out there in internet land. Accept and discuss that your relationship may not be the same as it was and try to map out a new path acceptable to both - there will probably be some compromise here. Above all, don't make the mistake I did which was to seriously, seriously underestimate the degree of adjustment she is having to make. In retrospect now I can see some of what a wife has to go through, I didn't 'get it' at the time. Give it loads of time for her to make the adjustments she needs to - it seems like you have been dealing with this for some time - presumably it is all a bit new to her.
There are 'happy ever after' examples out there - we are one of them. We still don't have a shared sex life again yet, although that seems to be getting very much on the cards again, I have made some minor compromises to my preferred behaviour - but then, that is how any successful relationship flourishes. Its taken considerable time and the commitment of both of us, but we are now closer than we have ever been.
Hope this helps
Miranda
This post was last modified: 29-04-2015, 09:43 AM by Miranda-nata-est.
I wish I had some insight I could give you, but this is not a simple situation. We can be great at deceiving people sometimes, especially ourselves.
It may be your wife is still working through things herself. We don't always understand ourselves until we explore things and talk them out.
I do suggest that you get a psychologist of your own to talk to and discuss things with. For me, it is one hour a month when I can dump, explore things in a guided way, analyse, and find ways forward. I always leave the sessions emotionally exhausted, but it helps me get through the rest of the month.
Remember, your psych is your advocate to some degree. They have a duty of care to you and not your wife and vice versa for her psych. They are not impartial.
Under those terms, my psych did offer tandem session with my wife and her psych so we could work through some things with support for both of us. That may be an avenue for you.
Oh, and not all psychologists are the same. Be prepared to try a few before you find one you can work with.
Best wishes to you both. I hope you work things out.
It may be your wife is still working through things herself. We don't always understand ourselves until we explore things and talk them out.
I do suggest that you get a psychologist of your own to talk to and discuss things with. For me, it is one hour a month when I can dump, explore things in a guided way, analyse, and find ways forward. I always leave the sessions emotionally exhausted, but it helps me get through the rest of the month.
Remember, your psych is your advocate to some degree. They have a duty of care to you and not your wife and vice versa for her psych. They are not impartial.
Under those terms, my psych did offer tandem session with my wife and her psych so we could work through some things with support for both of us. That may be an avenue for you.
Oh, and not all psychologists are the same. Be prepared to try a few before you find one you can work with.
Best wishes to you both. I hope you work things out.
(29-04-2015, 09:14 AM)Miranda-nata-est Wrote: b) You have a full on gender identity crisis which you HAVE to deal with. In this case you have ceded responsibility to your wife to decide what she wants as it is you who have broken the contract. You will probably argue that it is not your fault that you are in this situation, but that is actually immaterial. The best thing you can do, assuming you want to retain some form of relationship with her, is to explain everything again and again but possibly in stages to avoid causing an extreme reaction. Drip feed the revelations and information allowing each step to take root before piling on further bombshells. Expose her to the examples of others who have managed to keep relationships alive - there are a lot of interesting and educational examples out there in internet land. Accept and discuss that your relationship may not be the same as it was and try to map out a new path acceptable to both - there will probably be some compromise here. Above all, don't make the mistake I did which was to seriously, seriously underestimate the degree of adjustment she is having to make. In retrospect now I can see some of what a wife has to go through, I didn't 'get it' at the time. Give it loads of time for her to make the adjustments she needs to - it seems like you have been dealing with this for some time - presumably it is all a bit new to her.
I agree with this advice, and I like the way you stated it, Miranda.
I so have a problem with all this "contract" talk. It's all bullshit, and, as you say, is immaterial. To use the "you violated the contract" argument to coerce certain behavior is not going to accomplish anything meaningful when it comes to being transgender. Always try to work out a problem from where you are at the moment, given the relevant facts at the moment. Assigning blame may make one feel better, or it might justify some unilateral action, but if saving the marriage is the goal, it's best to put it behind you.
Clara
(29-04-2015, 02:57 PM)ClaraKay Wrote: I agree with this advice, and I like the way you stated it, Miranda.
I so have a problem with all this "contract" talk. It's all bullshit, and, as you say, is immaterial. To use the "you violated the contract" argument to coerce certain behavior is not going to accomplish anything meaningful when it comes to being transgender. Always try to work out a problem from where you are at the moment, given the relevant facts at the moment. Assigning blame may make one feel better, or it might justify some unilateral action, but if saving the marriage is the goal, it's best to put it behind you.
Clara
I wasn't for one moment suggesting anyone use 'you've broken the contract' as an argument point in a discussion with one's SO. However, it is worthy of attention by the person who has rocked the relationship by coming out to his/her other half as it helps one gain a bit of the other half's perspective.
Regarding the original post, I had also intended mentioning is that it is probably a good idea to be aware that a person who has been emotionally hurt is likely to come out with all sorts of stuff that may have little bearing in reality. So, it is eminently possible that some of the things being said to you are not quite as they actually are. .
Miranda
Miranda, I wasn't suggesting that you were suggesting. Rather, that other posts have been quite fixated on this 'broken contract' idea. It may or may not have been anything intended or foreseen, but it's immaterial at the present time. All kinds of promises are broken within a marriage on all kinds of matters. It comes down to whether a divorce by one or the other spouse is desired or not.
Clara
Clara
Hurricane,
I'm sorry your wife is responding the way she is. Everyone is free to respond however they wish and we can't control that. Sadly, in this day and age, few really know how to deal with a transgender coming out or how a spouse should respond. Most of the population has never had to even think about it so there is no example to follow for her and very few examples for you to emulate.
I don't want to sound like I don't care, I do. But the truth might be more helpful than any niceties I could offer. You are transgender. However, your marriage appears to have problems besides the trans stuff. I might be wrong about your marriage because I have very limited information but I think you should seek professional marriage counseling first, and deal with the TG stuff later if you can keep it in check long enough to repair the marriage. If you can't contain your TG, it seems obvious, your marriage will implode. What do you want more? A marriage, or freedom to explore your TG.
I'm sorry this might be tough to hear - it hasn't taken on the flavor I originally intended to convey but after re-reading your post, it seems like the hard truth you might need to hear. I didn't read the other posts so I hope I'm not being redundant and I certainly don't want to sound unsympathetic. TG is hard, as is marital strife. If you have both, you have a lot of very hard work to do. Good luck sister! We're on your side.
I'm sorry your wife is responding the way she is. Everyone is free to respond however they wish and we can't control that. Sadly, in this day and age, few really know how to deal with a transgender coming out or how a spouse should respond. Most of the population has never had to even think about it so there is no example to follow for her and very few examples for you to emulate.
I don't want to sound like I don't care, I do. But the truth might be more helpful than any niceties I could offer. You are transgender. However, your marriage appears to have problems besides the trans stuff. I might be wrong about your marriage because I have very limited information but I think you should seek professional marriage counseling first, and deal with the TG stuff later if you can keep it in check long enough to repair the marriage. If you can't contain your TG, it seems obvious, your marriage will implode. What do you want more? A marriage, or freedom to explore your TG.
I'm sorry this might be tough to hear - it hasn't taken on the flavor I originally intended to convey but after re-reading your post, it seems like the hard truth you might need to hear. I didn't read the other posts so I hope I'm not being redundant and I certainly don't want to sound unsympathetic. TG is hard, as is marital strife. If you have both, you have a lot of very hard work to do. Good luck sister! We're on your side.
(28-04-2015, 11:11 AM)WantAPair Wrote: [...] The REALLY strange thing is that, in both cases, I was attacked by people that feel they can dress up REALLY strangely ANYTIME they like and EVERYBODY HAS to just deal with them!!!! It's a LIFESTYLE for them!! They are punk rockers!! Oi boys!! Y'know, spiked multi-coloured Mohawks 2 feet high, really bizarre piercings, very loud plaid clothes, the whole ball of wax!! I'M supposed to be COMPLETELY, PERFECTLY accepting of them in this attire/style (and I am!!), but they're in NO way, shape or form going to even CONSIDER being accepting of me wearing a short black skirt and tights or pantyhose!! And, of course, there's the double standard, why is it your wife can wear pants and other men's clothing any time she likes, but you can't dress the LEAST bit fem? It's PERFECTLY okay for Ben Hur and Caligula, among MANY other men throughout history, to wear a skirt, but not for modern day men! I would JUST like to know what goes through peoples' minds when this issue is presented to them, especially via someone they supposedly love!
Yeah - I see all the time, those that claim to be "accepting" are actually pretty closed-minded. They'll accept anyone who agrees with "X" - everyone else is the Devil's Own, even when the person talking is an atheist...
:-P
People are. [See comments elsewhere on being physically strong - there's a reason.]
(29-04-2015, 05:18 PM)ClaraKay Wrote: Miranda, I wasn't suggesting that you were suggesting. Rather, that other posts have been quite fixated on this 'broken contract' idea. It may or may not have been anything intended or foreseen, but it's immaterial at the present time. All kinds of promises are broken within a marriage on all kinds of matters. It comes down to whether a divorce by one or the other spouse is desired or not.
Clara
Clara hits upon an interesting idea I hadn't thought of...
In a sense, how is this different from cancer?
Does getting cancer (say, of the uterus, or of the prostate) invalidate the marriage contract? Especially when it sounds like she's aiming for the "merit badges" of the modern woman (marriage, kid, career achievements, status, wealth, etc.)
For what it's worth, if you're not getting sex since the first kid.... If that kid is over 6 months, and that's being rather generous, well - SEX IS PART OF THE CONTRACT....
So, if she's denying you sex, she's violated the contract in the first place. And in that case, how can she hold YOU to the terms of the contract?
I'd also suggest you look into hiding assets and see a good divorce attorney. Get a consultation, as she may already have done so (noting the "poisoning the well" effect of telling nearby friends who see you socially.... I.E., she's making sure you'll have no social support network. So, take pre-emptive measures, this stuff ain't cheap, and divorce can be worse.)
I took an inventory of all my trans friends recently. It suddenly dawned on me that an accepting wife is a rare breed indeed. I know of only one other trans married couple in which the wife is fully supportive. Yes, there are some where an accommodation has been made, but it's tied to multiple restrictions and limitations on when and how en femme presentation is permitted. And in those marriages, the transgender does not identify strongly as female. Every transsexual I know is either divorced or never married.
Clara
Clara
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