[The First Aria]

Wow, Café, still coming up with great finds. Thanks!

[Lotus]

Hi cafe,

• PM is .25 to E2 (2mg)
  
• Reishi inhibts DHT @80% (imo it's similar to Finasteride, which is also 80%)
  
• Saw palmetto is 32%
  
• Some saturated/polyunsaturated fats inhibit DHT@ 60%
  
• I've got spiro inhibiting DHT 25 to 50% (by way of 5 ar reduction)
  

[The First Aria]

Hi cafe,

• PM is .25 to E2 (2mg)
  
• Reishi inhibts DHT @80% (imo it's similar to Finasteride, which is also 80%)
  
• Saw palmetto is 32%
  
• Some saturated/polyunsaturated fats inhibit DHT@ 60%
  
• I've got spiro inhibiting DHT 25 to 50% (by way of 5 ar reduction)
  

So, Lotus you think my 25mg is only about 5 - 6% effective on spiro?? Sorry Café, don't mean to hijack your thread brother.

[Lotus]

Hi cafe,

• PM is .25 to E2 (2mg)
  
• Reishi inhibts DHT @80% (imo it's similar to Finasteride, which is also 80%)
  
• Saw palmetto is 32%
  
• Some saturated/polyunsaturated fats inhibit DHT@ 60%
  
• I've got spiro inhibiting DHT 25 to 50% (by way of 5 ar reduction)
  

So, Lotus you think my 25mg is only about 5 - 6% effective on spiro?? Sorry Café, don't mean to hijack your thread brother.

spiro is considered a weaker anti-androgen, however the effective role that spiro plays is that it blocks androgen receptors. This would make better sense if one was to use an effective aromatase, and then add say something like finasteride or dutasreide, then followed by PC. And of course no crazy dosages. Ok, i take an average of what the science says 37.5% which tests results using 100mg dosage. Does the percentage change in lower dose?, I still get 37.5 for a 25mg dose.

[cafemaid1900]

Hi cafe,

• PM is .25 to E2 (2mg)
  
• Reishi inhibts DHT @80% (imo it's similar to Finasteride, which is also 80%)
  
• Saw palmetto is 32%
  
• Some saturated/polyunsaturated fats inhibit DHT@ 60%
  
• I've got spiro inhibiting DHT 25 to 50% (by way of 5 ar reduction)
  

Thanks, Lotus. As always coming to save the day. I'm trying to get this into more concrete information in my head. For example, PM is .25 to 2mg of E2, but at what dosage? is 1000mg of PM = .25mg of E2? I suck at converting these numbers. Anyway, do you have a source or a table for this information. Maybe if I look at that, I might be able to understand it more clearly.

[cafemaid1900]

Hi cafe,

• PM is .25 to E2 (2mg)
  
• Reishi inhibts DHT @80% (imo it's similar to Finasteride, which is also 80%)
  
• Saw palmetto is 32%
  
• Some saturated/polyunsaturated fats inhibit DHT@ 60%
  
• I've got spiro inhibiting DHT 25 to 50% (by way of 5 ar reduction)
  

So, Lotus you think my 25mg is only about 5 - 6% effective on spiro?? Sorry Café, don't mean to hijack your thread brother.

Don't worry about hijacking my thread. I'm here to learn just like you are

[The First Aria]

I would have to guess there is some synergy involved somewhere along the line..... I mean at least to a certain extent. For instance, under 1mg of PM would far more weaker than 2mg of pm. I would think because of the daizen involved and other chemicals in the cocktail we call PM. But we also know there is a limit as to how too much of a good thing can be counter productive as well.

[cafemaid1900]

Today's web search was all about creating aromatase. I figure if I can just get my body to convert T -->E, I wouldn't need AAs anymore. I would just keep taking herbs to promote aromatase and taking E to help out. Honestly, I just wanna keep my body in consistent aromatase mode and therefore I wouldn't need phytoestrogens either. Just rely on my own GH to regulate how large to grow my breast. Looks I was right somewhat and just getting estradiol alone into the system can produce aromatase. In turn, this can inhibit the production of testosterone, making it unnecessary for an antiandrogen. Meaning more money in your pocket and boobies on your chest . It doesn't explain how effective this is with phytoestrogens. Right now the only phytoestrogen we know of that would even show up on this radar would be PM; all others are too weak. Could be the reason why Thai monks were the way they were with ingesting the PM alone.

So right now, I'm right in thinking that we can get away with just an Aromatase and source of Estrogen. Whether it works with PM or not is the question. IMHO, I don't think PM is strong enough to cause an aromatase effect without taking near toxic levels of it. I'm gonna have to look into the studies myself because they don't say the dosage of estradiol that was given to the men, therefore I cannot make an accurate comparison.

http://www.academia.edu/8255687/Estrogen...6_studies_

[cafemaid1900]

Hi BN!

I'm back after a long hiatus form the site. Depression has gotten the better of me and kept me off of the site, but now I'm back! Anyway some news; not all of it is good, though. I continued my NBE up until 20 Jan 16 where I was measuring at a 39" bust and a 35" underbust. I took a break after 7 months of NBE (started in July) to let my body reset/refresh. I continued Feb 22 but didn't measure to see if there was any loss. I decided to measure myself today, lo and behold, I lost my inch! How could this have happened in a short time? Is my body just fighting back with extra T once I went on break? It's been about a month and a week or so and I'm not back to where I was sadly

When I picked my program up, I made a few tweaks:

Ainterol Extract 12 drops daily (it says 240mg is 6 drops so 480mg? I don't know how much more effective this is versus the pill, but it says 120:1 ratio and it's not giving me the effect that the pills had)

Swanson's Reishi Extract 2ml daily (again, I was using pill format before but now on extract. I might go back to licorice and white peony)

Hops Flowers 1240mg daily

Flaxseed oil 2000 mg daily (this substitutes the fish oil I was taking)

Also, I drink soy milk now instead of cow's milk to help with this process. If you guys/gals see anything I need to tweak/change/replace/add in let me know. I was doing so well until that happened.

12 Jan    

4 Apr    

[cafemaid1900]

Okay. I've been on Ainterol's PM extract for about 2 months now. I'm taking anywhere between 12 and 20 drops per day. I'm just gonna go and say that this does absolutely NOTHING for me. I think it is what's causing my reduction. Speaking of reduction, I'm down to about 37 1/2" on my bust now. I'm getting really down about this. I'm trying to figure out what's happening to me.

What's worse is Ainterol's website isn't taking my Paypal payment at all. Also, I tried to call and pay by phone and that didn't work either; I guess they don't like money. So Friday I decided to hit up Rakuten and order the same PM that Chiyomilk took. They're 330mg at a higher concentration than Ainterol. So high in fact that they made a 280mg less potent version. I hope it works for me. My breast buds and aerolas are shrinking as well and I'm starting to feel really down. As far as my body is concerned, that extract is a joke.