[Lotus]

Ok, I remember reading something from one of those doctors. I can understand their position, or reluctance. Although the risk for estrogen related breast cancers have a higher incidence, especially in ER-alpha.

I mention nuts for their benefits in breast growth. I'll tell (lol) when I eat peanuts my aerolas pop! Lmao.

Greek yogurt is another pro-breast food


Here's some thoughts on progesterone and prolactin-

Progesterone reduces the amount of prolactin is breasts, however, prolactin stores fat in the breasts making it possible for future lactation, it's an enzyme called lipoprotein lipase.

Dopamine lowers prolactin while serotonin raises prolactin. Prolactin also increases breast receptors in puberty, and near as I can figure, we're all (to some degree) still progressing throug the tanner stages. Growth hormone is also needed for breast development, the first 2 hours of sleep releases the most IGF-1 (insulin growth factor) which is needed for cellular repair and building new tissue. You can also get IGF-1 from High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT)......in other words a free way of getting the amino acids without injections or supplements.

[Lotus]

Keep in mind, certain meds/supplements can make breasts elongate, and some help build side branching. You want even growth, in other words, rounded out.

Elongated breasts mean you have too much estrogen receptor alpha (ER-a) mediated growth. Progesterone helps to build side branching.

To build the inner poles of the breasts you can do some simple breast exercises, e.g. flexing pectoral muscles, or training the interior (edges) to hold each flex (isometrics) for around 10 seconds each, around 5-6 sets. You can also repeat these on the sides/upper/lower breasts. I've been using these techniques for a long time, I can pretty say they've help me build tissue, imo it put it at around 40-50%.

I forget to add---hold two fingers (index and middle finger) and press down on each side while you try to press the fingers up with your pec muscles. This is very difficult, but it will help you build tissue. (It's take persistence and practice)

[Lotus]

Btw, I use this technique in place of applying creams, lotions, batters, etc. The coconut oil (taken internally) helps with target tissue (aka-breasts). Plus I hate cleaning up the mess, time and effort, lol.

[bobie]

I dont think the figures where correct anyway, what i mean is they may have said progesterone but all the figures where to do with progestins which yes did increase the risk of cancer slightly but it was either not increased or was marginal when it came to bio identical progesterone so it was a bit biased, not helped by the fact that these two didnt like progesterone either.

Interesting, i used to eat a peanut butter sandwich every evening before my diet, now its just occasionally, may have one this evening in fact

Is that just greek yoghurt or any yogurt? i ear a muller corner each day but was never keen on plain yoghurt

I have been trying to raise growth hormone through adding certain foods to my diet, my understanding is oral estrogens also lower growth hormone, i need to look into HIIT exercises then, are there any legit safe supplements that actually raise growth hormone?

[Lotus]

I dont think the figures where correct anyway, what i mean is they may have said progesterone but all the figures where to do with progestins which yes did increase the risk of cancer slightly but it was either not increased or was marginal when it came to bio identical progesterone so it was a bit biased, not helped by the fact that these two didnt like progesterone either.

Yeah lol, the one doc slammed progesterone for TG's. Although the one study shows the amount of progesterone receptors in male breast is pretty obvious.

Interesting, i used to eat a peanut butter sandwich every evening before my diet, now its just occasionally, may have one this evening in fact

Is that just greek yoghurt or any yogurt? i ear a muller corner each day but was never keen on plain yoghurt

Greek yogurt holds more of NBE food than regular yogurt. (Growth factors)

I have been trying to raise growth hormone through adding certain foods to my diet, my understanding is oral estrogens also lower growth hormone, i need to look into HIIT exercises then, are there any legit safe supplements that actually raise growth hormone?

Amino acids is what I'd look into, some supplements have more amino acids then others, e.g. Like a multi formula brand. Here's another idea, take a look into vitamin D below.

MSM has proven to boost HIIT growth hormone levels, post #2602 & #2606
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=17436&pid=153534&highlight=high+intensity+interval#pid153534

Viitamin D (D3) is underestimated for NBE. Not only is it an aromatase, it will increase E2 synthesis, and get rid of visceral fat.

This (D3) clears off the shelf of about 3-4 NBE products and keeps money in your pocket, how cool is that?.

____________________


We conclude that 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 directly regulates adipocyte 11beta-HSD 1 expression and, consequently, local cortisol levels and that this may contribute to the preferential loss of visceral adiposity by high- calcium diets.

1,25-Dihydroxyvitamin D3 Modulation of Adipocyte Glucocorticoid Function
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/store/10.1038/oby.2005.75/asset/oby.2005.75.pdf?v=1&t=icfkstuw&s=b5a9d9b5caa4998c3c65827467cc842bb9dda82a

vitamin D analogs significantly upregulated E2- and DHT-induced CK response. These analogs upregulated the CK response to selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs). An estrogenic response (from vitamin D) is seen in the intestinal tract. Vitamin D also helps with hair growth.
http://www.howtomakeyourhairgrowfast.net...rowth.html


Interaction Between Estrogen and Vitamin D–Endocrine System: A Potential Addition to the Unitary Model of Osteoporosis
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.13....1954/full

Vitamin D modulation of the activity of estrogenic compounds in bone cells in vitro and in vivo.
Somjen D1.
Author information
Abstract
Vitamin D analogs modulate different organs, including modulation of energy metabolism, through the induction of creatine kinase (CK) activity. Skeletal organs from vitamin D-depleted rats showed lower constituent CK than those from vitamin D-replete rats. Moreover, estradiol-17beta (E2) or dihydrotestosterone (DHT), which increased CK in organs from intact female or male rats, respectively, stimulated much less CK in vitamin D-depleted rats. Treatment of intact female rats with noncalcemic vitamin D analogs significantly upregulated E2- and DHT-induced CKresponse. These analogs upregulated the CK response to selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs) in organs from intact or ovariectomized (Ovx) female rats but abolished SERMs' inhibitory effect on E2-induced CK. These analogs significantly increased estradiol receptor alpha (ERalpha) protein in skeletal organs as well as histomorphological and biochemical changes due to this treatment followed by E2 or DHT. The analogs alone markedly altered the growth plate and the trabeculae and increased trabecular bone volume (%TB V) and trabecular width. The addition of E2 or DHT to this treatment restored all parameters as well as increased %TBV and cell proliferation. Treatment of Ovx female rats with JK 1624 F2-2 (JKF) decreased growth-plate width and increased %TB V, whereas QW1624 F2-2 (QW) restored growth-plate width and %TB V. Treatment of E2 with JKF restored %TBV and growth-plate width, whereas E2 with QW restored all parameters, including cortical width. There was also upregulation of the response of CK to E2 in both combined treatments. Our human-derived osteoblast (hObs)-like cell cultures respond to estrogenic compounds, and pretreating them with JKF upregulated the CK response to E2, raloxifene (Ral), and some phytoestrogens. ERalpha and ERbeta proteins, as well as mRNA, were modulated by CB 1093 (CB) and JKF. JKF increased specific nuclear E2 binding in female hObs but inhibited specific membranal E2 binding. hObs express 25 hydroxyvitamin D3-1alpha hydroxylase (1-OHase)-mRNA and its biological activity, which are both modulated by parathyroid hormone (PTH) and estrogenic compounds. Our results demonstrate mutual interaction between vitamin D and estrogenic compounds. We therefore conclude that combined treatment with less-calcemic analogs of vitamin D and estrogenic compounds might be superior for treatment of bone damage caused by ovariectomy in female rats, with possible application for postmenopausal osteoporosis.
PMID: 17725484 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17725484

[bobie]

Finally got round to doing those blood tests, here are the results:

Estradiol 298 pmol (81pg/ml)
Testosterone 0.6 nmol/l (17 ng/dl)
Free androgen index 0.6%
SHBG 103.6 nmol/l
LH 0.4 iu/l
FSH 0.4 iu/l
Prolactin 593 miu/l, high but im pleased with this as its come down, it was nearly 700 miu/l the two previous times tested

Any imput as always would be greatly appreciated lotus, im really going to miss you when you go, any chance of being able to keep in touch by email?

[Lotus]

Finally got round to doing those blood tests, here are the results:

Estradiol 298 pmol (81pg/ml)
Testosterone 0.6 nmol/l (17 ng/dl)
Free androgen index 0.6%
SHBG 103.6 nmol/l
LH 0.4 iu/l
FSH 0.4 iu/l
Prolactin 593 miu/l, high but im pleased with this as its come down, it was nearly 700 m
iu/l the two previous times tested

Any imput as always would be greatly appreciated lotus, im really going to miss you when you go, any chance of being able to keep in touch by email?

Bobie, these are solid results imo. Prolactin inhibits DHT in the prostrate, if prolactin lowers Estrogen (a tad) you still are benefiting from Low levels of LH/FSH production, which gives way to more estrogen being available. Imo, FSH can further stimulate E2 synthesis. I have an inclining to put together a working thesis on exactly how this can be achieved.


It'll blow the doors wide off, up and open (whatever the case may be).

Yes to keeping in touch.

[bobie]

Thanks lotus, so if levels are alright whats the cause of not much happening in the boob department? just a slow developer or do i need more e2? sure i have boobs (36" underbust, 39" bust) but when i lay down theres no projection so i dont think theres a lot happening with the glandular tissue, if you do write a thesis on fsh i would be very interested in seeing it, could you please pm me your email address, thanks

[Lotus]

Thanks lotus, so if levels are alright whats the cause of not much happening in the boob department? just a slow developer or do i need more e2? sure i have boobs (36" underbust, 39" bust) but when i lay down theres no projection so i dont think theres a lot happening with the glandular tissue, if you do write a thesis on fsh i would be very interested in seeing it, could you please pm me your email address, thanks

I'm willing to bet you're progesterone is low, evident of higher prolactin, which will also keep estrogen lower. It's the body natural defense to auto correct (negative feedback mechanism).

The simple answer (imo) appears you need progesterone. Synthetic progestins carry risks. I see the pharmacokinetics of something like androcur and try to think of an OTC replacement lol. Suggestions (replacement for Prg,) wild yam cream, fenugreek cream, avocado cream. Another possibilitiy, red clover extract (yes, it's E2, small progesterone).

It could also be an indication of higher androgen receptors are present in breast receptors. In that case PC can help seeing it's a 5 AR inhibitor. Keep in mind Prolactin is useful.........stores breast fats and builds new receptors.

[bobie]

Thanks, i actually got my progesterone tested back in june, it was low at 2.4 nmol/l then, i wasnt sure when to add it but i have a stash of utrogestan which is bio identical, i think i also have a couple of jars of pc somewhere too