(29-10-2015, 02:50 PM)Happyme Wrote:(29-10-2015, 07:41 AM)Pansy-Mae Wrote: So what triggers the stops and starts is for me, now, my PM intake levels. Stop PM for 3 weeks, dressing need comes back, and vice versa. Its that simple.
Thanks Pansy Mae!
I was going crazy! When I started PM, all of a sudden my dressing desires dropped off. I was at a loss. Why would my desire to dress be less when I am taking herbs to make me for feminine??
Now i have been off everything for a month and I cant wait to slip on my bra and panties.
I dont understand it. Can you explain it?
Thanks
Bobbi
Bobbi,
No, you certainly are not alone.
Notwithstanding Julie's long and technical ramble on the other thread, my analysis of me ( may not work for others ), goes like this:
Part of Anne Vitale's work suggests that at a certain point in foetal development, the mothers male-female hormone balance goes outside the normal female range. This has the effect of pre-programming the male foetal brain to expect a more female hormone regime than the mature male can produce naturally. However the subconcious brain has a need to be balanced, to express the feminine pre-programming. I ( we) do this by wearing female clothes, makeup etc. Often people over-compensate by going to extremes of the fashions of the day i.e skirts that are too short, and or tight, fake boobs that are too big, heels too high to walk in properly, too much make-up, etc. - you only have to look at Youtube video's to see all that! I have to confess to having gone that route myself on occcasion, although generally I've always tried to blend in with GG's rather than stand out, in fetish style.
I think that virtually everybody has gone through several periods of, “I'm not going to do this any more” and dumped everything, only to start again sooner or later. Not sure exactly why that is, generally, but my guess is that it has something to do with an individuals T-production and or emotional state.
For myself, I have also noticed, in hindsight, that my need to dress disappeared when I had a female partner who enjoyed dressing the way I liked – if she would do it for me then I didn't need too do it for myself.
At this point, enter PM! A female hormone mimic, it initially seems to exaggerate to stop-start cycle, depending on dose. However the point is that if the pre-programmed brain gets its female needs satisfied by a hormone look-alike, then it doesn't need to create the 'artificial' cross-dressed blow-up doll. However, take it away and like any junkie the brain's need to replace it is worse than before...and so the cycle goes round.
As I say, this is my take on myself, may not be the same for others.
Hi, Pansy-Mae,
I think you're on a good line of reasoning there.
I wonder about things, though, as I've done the whole "on again, off again" relationship with transition, too. Leaving aside complexity, I wonder if there are differences in the hormones, that we just haven't had time or reason to ponder ("we" really meaning humans, medical science.)
As an example, my father had a lot of issues, and there's a good chance he had some sort of gender oddity - whether a TG in hiding, maybe even gay. He also had a high DHT level (Evidenced by baldness and BPH, which wasn't so benign because of the size).
But I think it was here, I read about the DHT:T ratio being more of an indicator of prostate problems.
And we have a wealth of information too, indicating that the T and DHT levels interfere with E in differing ways. Both will stop feminisation, but DHT stops breasts dead, causes male secondary characteristics, kills scalp hair; T seems more an interference, rather than stopping things cold. DHT is more powerful than T; but there's the question of Free T vs. Aromatized T (becomes E) vs. SHBG & Albumin-bonded T...
Point being, there's probably a very complex formula to balance things out, and it might even be enough to find a "solution" for us that would make transition, or even exogenous estrogens, unimportant, unnecessary.
So, I'm doing OK right now with 4 Saw Palmetto Extract tablets (I think each is 1,000 mg, but not sure.) 2 doses, 2 times a day, 2 capsules each dose, total 4 per day. Also doing 2 X 1,000 mg Reishi (powdered). We WERE doing the Change-O-Life supplement from Natures...??? Whatever, from GNC or Vitamin shoppe, contains Black cohosh, Licorice root, Dong Quai, and I think Blessed Thistle. Proprietary blend, so no exact amounts, but the 3-pill dosage was 1,000+ mg total. I was doing 3 doses per day; the woman was doing 2, plus the Saw Palmetto same as I am.
Her aggression is WAY down. My dysphoria, if that's what it is, is controlled. No breast growth to date (no new growth). Waiting on PM extract. Unsure if I'll even use it now. But worried about my bones and muscles, even with working out. (Long spine, I'm aware of how much I'm squatting.)
Distilling the two main points above, maybe the ratio of the hormones is more important?
Maybe my father and I both have (had) too much DHT for the amount of usable T in our bodies? Think AIS or PAIS, maybe - which would match events - the teenage years saw such a rush of testosterone, that the body got super-saturated, and the receptors were down-regulated or desensitized? The excess T then converts to DHT (high 5-alpha reductase) rather than E... But the brain is seeking E for "normal" functionality. (And then we get into dopamine regulation of Prolactin, which... I can't find now, must've closed the tab and can't dig it up, I have work to get to! but apparently, Dopamine helps to reduce prolactin. Prolactin might not be our best bud for breast growth, but maybe that's the missing link, too? )
I think we have a few engineers here. I think they'll agree, this is like determine angular velocity of a mechanism where you don't have all the lengths... So, you know the equations, but some of the values are missing, and not readily available. Chemically, it's the difference between burning as "rust" and a fuel-air explosive. Slow, fast, amount of fuel and oxidizer, all need to be considered.
How many of us had mothers who were on fertility drugs? Or had PCOS? Or just had high 'estrogen" due to pesticides and plastics that hadn't yet been studied...? could be fascinating to work it all out...
but we need to tinker - and most of us are here too late to do well, WRT "Establishing a baseline" via tests, or knowing what medications our mothers took before or during pregnancy. (And that leaves out the after effects of RH factor, miscarriages, etc, which might not even have been known to her, let alone us.)
I had "bitch tits" (pseudogyencomastia) for my whole teenage years. I lifted weights and swam and rode my bicycle a LOT, plus mowing the lawn, raking leaves, taking care of tree limbs, etc. I.E., very active, especially as I got into later teen years. Never lost the belly or the bitch tits. From lifting, I found out about aromatase inhibitors. Ordered them, used them, used some bodybuilding supplements like creatine monohydrate...
So, a BASELINE? You MUST be joking, right? ;-)
And the Change-O-Life stuff in my late teens, too, as I wanted so very much to be a girl, and to NOT be a guy. (I didn't mind "being a guy", I was turned off by becoming a "man" and the constant effort required to prove yourself every day - which has been borne out in my adult life. I work 80 hours a week to get a project done; the boss says, "what have you done for me lately?" "Why wasn't this report done on time?" [Let's see, I was DEAD....? And you STILL got it the day it was required, just not before YOU left for home. ESAD! ] It's not The Pointy-Haired Boss, either, it's just any boss. Whereas, the women in the group? Talk most of the day, do little work, yet they are Ok turning in half-assed, mediocre work, and they get praised for it. And promoted... So, yeah, woman gets by with much less effort. Man kills himself and is belittled for not producing enough at the time the boss wanted it, in the way the boss wanted it, with enough wiggle-room you could fly a Rockwell B1-B through, and ... nevermind. :-P )
Anyway- maybe there IS a way for us to control things and find a method of adding to our hormones, that cures the dysphoria. Makes the brain grow to match the assigned sex, hopefully without breaking the decent (important) "feminine" qualities - and we just need to find the right key for that lock.
Of course, in the early stages, we've gone from, "Live with it," or "pray it out," to "Work around it," to "You CAN change!!!" (meaning transition) - maybe the solution is right around the corner?
DNA cataloging, prenatal hormone monitoring, MRIs of the brain (showing the physical similarities of TG brains to the target gender's brains), and then a course of treatment to bring body and mind into alignment? I mean, that's similar to what we're doing now; but it is much different from the spinning chairs, leeches, bleeding, abiotic theories of disease? Where will we be in 50 years? (Depending on politics, of course, we're meant to be somnambulent tax cattle for the Elites. True no matter who is in office, BTW. But there's a lot of noise recently... And that would disrupt medical progress for a while.)
I guess we're pioneers in that sense, finding our way through trial and error. In a sense, maybe we're transhumanists?
I think you're on a good line of reasoning there.
I wonder about things, though, as I've done the whole "on again, off again" relationship with transition, too. Leaving aside complexity, I wonder if there are differences in the hormones, that we just haven't had time or reason to ponder ("we" really meaning humans, medical science.)
As an example, my father had a lot of issues, and there's a good chance he had some sort of gender oddity - whether a TG in hiding, maybe even gay. He also had a high DHT level (Evidenced by baldness and BPH, which wasn't so benign because of the size).
But I think it was here, I read about the DHT:T ratio being more of an indicator of prostate problems.
And we have a wealth of information too, indicating that the T and DHT levels interfere with E in differing ways. Both will stop feminisation, but DHT stops breasts dead, causes male secondary characteristics, kills scalp hair; T seems more an interference, rather than stopping things cold. DHT is more powerful than T; but there's the question of Free T vs. Aromatized T (becomes E) vs. SHBG & Albumin-bonded T...
Point being, there's probably a very complex formula to balance things out, and it might even be enough to find a "solution" for us that would make transition, or even exogenous estrogens, unimportant, unnecessary.
So, I'm doing OK right now with 4 Saw Palmetto Extract tablets (I think each is 1,000 mg, but not sure.) 2 doses, 2 times a day, 2 capsules each dose, total 4 per day. Also doing 2 X 1,000 mg Reishi (powdered). We WERE doing the Change-O-Life supplement from Natures...??? Whatever, from GNC or Vitamin shoppe, contains Black cohosh, Licorice root, Dong Quai, and I think Blessed Thistle. Proprietary blend, so no exact amounts, but the 3-pill dosage was 1,000+ mg total. I was doing 3 doses per day; the woman was doing 2, plus the Saw Palmetto same as I am.
Her aggression is WAY down. My dysphoria, if that's what it is, is controlled. No breast growth to date (no new growth). Waiting on PM extract. Unsure if I'll even use it now. But worried about my bones and muscles, even with working out. (Long spine, I'm aware of how much I'm squatting.)
Distilling the two main points above, maybe the ratio of the hormones is more important?
Maybe my father and I both have (had) too much DHT for the amount of usable T in our bodies? Think AIS or PAIS, maybe - which would match events - the teenage years saw such a rush of testosterone, that the body got super-saturated, and the receptors were down-regulated or desensitized? The excess T then converts to DHT (high 5-alpha reductase) rather than E... But the brain is seeking E for "normal" functionality. (And then we get into dopamine regulation of Prolactin, which... I can't find now, must've closed the tab and can't dig it up, I have work to get to! but apparently, Dopamine helps to reduce prolactin. Prolactin might not be our best bud for breast growth, but maybe that's the missing link, too? )
I think we have a few engineers here. I think they'll agree, this is like determine angular velocity of a mechanism where you don't have all the lengths... So, you know the equations, but some of the values are missing, and not readily available. Chemically, it's the difference between burning as "rust" and a fuel-air explosive. Slow, fast, amount of fuel and oxidizer, all need to be considered.
How many of us had mothers who were on fertility drugs? Or had PCOS? Or just had high 'estrogen" due to pesticides and plastics that hadn't yet been studied...? could be fascinating to work it all out...
but we need to tinker - and most of us are here too late to do well, WRT "Establishing a baseline" via tests, or knowing what medications our mothers took before or during pregnancy. (And that leaves out the after effects of RH factor, miscarriages, etc, which might not even have been known to her, let alone us.)
I had "bitch tits" (pseudogyencomastia) for my whole teenage years. I lifted weights and swam and rode my bicycle a LOT, plus mowing the lawn, raking leaves, taking care of tree limbs, etc. I.E., very active, especially as I got into later teen years. Never lost the belly or the bitch tits. From lifting, I found out about aromatase inhibitors. Ordered them, used them, used some bodybuilding supplements like creatine monohydrate...
So, a BASELINE? You MUST be joking, right? ;-)
And the Change-O-Life stuff in my late teens, too, as I wanted so very much to be a girl, and to NOT be a guy. (I didn't mind "being a guy", I was turned off by becoming a "man" and the constant effort required to prove yourself every day - which has been borne out in my adult life. I work 80 hours a week to get a project done; the boss says, "what have you done for me lately?" "Why wasn't this report done on time?" [Let's see, I was DEAD....? And you STILL got it the day it was required, just not before YOU left for home. ESAD! ] It's not The Pointy-Haired Boss, either, it's just any boss. Whereas, the women in the group? Talk most of the day, do little work, yet they are Ok turning in half-assed, mediocre work, and they get praised for it. And promoted... So, yeah, woman gets by with much less effort. Man kills himself and is belittled for not producing enough at the time the boss wanted it, in the way the boss wanted it, with enough wiggle-room you could fly a Rockwell B1-B through, and ... nevermind. :-P )
Anyway- maybe there IS a way for us to control things and find a method of adding to our hormones, that cures the dysphoria. Makes the brain grow to match the assigned sex, hopefully without breaking the decent (important) "feminine" qualities - and we just need to find the right key for that lock.
Of course, in the early stages, we've gone from, "Live with it," or "pray it out," to "Work around it," to "You CAN change!!!" (meaning transition) - maybe the solution is right around the corner?
DNA cataloging, prenatal hormone monitoring, MRIs of the brain (showing the physical similarities of TG brains to the target gender's brains), and then a course of treatment to bring body and mind into alignment? I mean, that's similar to what we're doing now; but it is much different from the spinning chairs, leeches, bleeding, abiotic theories of disease? Where will we be in 50 years? (Depending on politics, of course, we're meant to be somnambulent tax cattle for the Elites. True no matter who is in office, BTW. But there's a lot of noise recently... And that would disrupt medical progress for a while.)
I guess we're pioneers in that sense, finding our way through trial and error. In a sense, maybe we're transhumanists?
(30-10-2015, 12:08 PM)Pansy-Mae Wrote: [quote='Happyme' pid='163022' dateline='1446126659']
[quote='Pansy-Mae' pid='163019' dateline='1446100903']
Bobbi,
No, you certainly are not alone.
Notwithstanding Julie's long and technical ramble on the other thread, my analysis of me ( may not work for others ), goes like this:
Part of Anne Vitale's work suggests that at a certain point in foetal development, the mothers male-female hormone balance goes outside the normal female range. This has the effect of pre-programming the male foetal brain to expect a more female hormone regime than the mature male can produce naturally. However the subconcious brain has a need to be balanced, to express the feminine pre-programming. I ( we) do this by wearing female clothes, makeup etc. Often people over-compensate by going to extremes of the fashions of the day i.e skirts that are too short, and or tight, fake boobs that are too big, heels too high to walk in properly, too much make-up, etc. - you only have to look at Youtube video's to see all that! I have to confess to having gone that route myself on occcasion, although generally I've always tried to blend in with GG's rather than stand out, in fetish style.
I think that virtually everybody has gone through several periods of, “I'm not going to do this any more” and dumped everything, only to start again sooner or later. Not sure exactly why that is, generally, but my guess is that it has something to do with an individuals T-production and or emotional state.
For myself, I have also noticed, in hindsight, that my need to dress disappeared when I had a female partner who enjoyed dressing the way I liked – if she would do it for me then I didn't need too do it for myself.
At this point, enter PM! A female hormone mimic, it initially seems to exaggerate to stop-start cycle, depending on dose. However the point is that if the pre-programmed brain gets its female needs satisfied by a hormone look-alike, then it doesn't need to create the 'artificial' cross-dressed blow-up doll. However, take it away and like any junkie the brain's need to replace it is worse than before...and so the cycle goes round.
As I say, this is my take on myself, may not be the same for others.
Thanks Pansy, and Thanks also to Julie!
What you said is spot on. When I met my current wife, I would adore watching her dress, my heart would just stop when she put on a dress I had picked for her. It was amazing. And she was the same size as me so I got to see me through her. We were so alike I used to call her "Bob in a skirt". Unfortunately she has gained a bit of weight and no longer wears anything but sweats and a maxi dress. I'm left to fend for myself so to speak.
Finally I understand something, maybe there is hope for me yet.
Bobbi
(30-10-2015, 03:44 PM)julieTG Wrote: Well as an update to balance,
Last 3 days down to 1000mg per day as want to be fully functional for weekend ,
Frisky, now off scale,
GD , off scale,
Playing with breasts, off scale,
Go 1500mg pm it all goes away
Julie
LOL!!!
AWESOME!!! :-)
It's going to be a (long) good weekend, right?! :-)
-Jean
(29-10-2015, 02:50 PM)Happyme Wrote:(29-10-2015, 07:41 AM)Pansy-Mae Wrote: So what triggers the stops and starts is for me, now, my PM intake levels. Stop PM for 3 weeks, dressing need comes back, and vice versa. Its that simple.
Thanks Pansy Mae!
I was going crazy! When I started PM, all of a sudden my dressing desires dropped off. I was at a loss. Why would my desire to dress be less when I am taking herbs to make me for feminine??
Now i have been off everything for a month and I cant wait to slip on my bra and panties.
I dont understand it. Can you explain it?
Thanks
Bobbi
How about the the testosterone is kicking back in and increasing libido.
I have never 'flip-flopped,' but I am recently new to NBE. My experience beyond NBE is that herbals enhance the female side of me, like less focused on sex, anxiety, etc.. I feel more feminine, and at times, leads to simple things like postures and mannerisms in daily life without having to focus on them. I don't know, I'm comfortable in that state of mind? Natural feeling??
I have read about gurls who stopped dressing because the 'sex drive' dropped, but I have never experienced that.
@Bobbi, perhaps there's a link in your T levels? Just a thought.
I have read about gurls who stopped dressing because the 'sex drive' dropped, but I have never experienced that.
@Bobbi, perhaps there's a link in your T levels? Just a thought.
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