How to get off the hamster wheel?Poll:
You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
Stay and "work on it"
2 (25.00%)
Stay, but give the ultimatum
2 (25.00%)
Tell her to move on & out.
1 (12.50%)
Transition everything possible without telling her
0 (0%)
There's another option (answer below)
2 (25.00%)
I just feel like voting
1 (12.50%)
Total 8 vote(s) 100%
Warning, this will be a bit of a downer, and probably long.
I need some outside perspective and sanity would be nice, too.
Gripes:
- The girlfriend (lots of posts, but she's unaccepting)
- Budget: "Just Over Broke" - and at what I earn, there's NO excuse!
- Medical: GF needs heart surgery. I've arranged my insurance so it SHOULD work, but still a pressure. (It's to stop her tachtichardia, minor, arthroscopic sort of thing.)
And new events, as I'm trying to sort my $hit?
- GF's daughter!!!
+ practicing Wiccan
+ left her (bad) relationship to live with grandparents
* Promised a job
* Promised College
* promised a room at their home
She's now talking about moving back in - WITH US! (She doesn't want to go back to the BF, at least.)
Grandparents have decided she should be Catholic, won't help her with the job (she was supposedly transferred from up here to down there, but manager is a douche or idiot, and she can't work without a uniform, which "is on backorder." GP won't find another position.)
The girl doesn't drive, so obviously doesn't have license, forget car. BUT - GP's were going to cover her for learning to drive. Except...?
GP's had a "college account" for her. It has $18,000 in there. WTF?
GP's won't take her to the doctor (she has a "female problem" of some sort.)
GP's don't even want her talking to Mom alone. W-T-F....?
So, yeah, she BETTER be thinking of moving back in with us! We have an extra bedroom, she's 20, almost 21, and her mom's surgery is going to happen in January.
Still: I'm not "Out" to the girl. But I feel the pressure, more and more, as everyone here already knows. I'm THE breadwinner. If I lose my job, we're on the street. (See also, the G-D Budget! WTF indeed.)
The GF is opposed to breast growth/transition. My plan was to get her through the heart issues, and then after she recovers, tell her I'm done. Refuse to sign the lease again. I'm tired of taking on her problems and responsibilities, at GREAT personal cost (Bankruptcy, for example).
GF knew my oddities before she moved in a decade ago. Threw out my hormones when we moved... And has been (from her perspective) VERY tolerant... I'm allowed to sleep in a bra, and take herbal supplements "because they don't work." (She's taking Saw Palmetto at my suggestion, and no longer growing facial hair... As much, as fast. And she's not a raging bitch whenever she's awake. But herbs have no effect. Yeah...)
ANYWAY:
I think I've been more than fair, trying to "man up" and help a woman who isn't even my wife.
It's unfortunate the daughter will get burned, but it's not my problem, to my way of thinking.
I'd appreciate either agreement that I've done right, so far, and am justified in telling her we're done; OR, insights on how I can manage the two pieces of this mess, so I can both get on with my life, and still not "throw her out on the street."
She's working at a permanent position now, and if her daughter comes back home, there should be no problems finding work near Beantown.
But even together, they'd be below poverty levels.
Other than controlling the money (what money?), is there anything I could perhaps do better or differently? Or is it time for the ultimatum, and let things fall where they may?
Because I think ultimatum makes more sense...
I didn't want to be married. She knew that. It's a de facto marriage, and while she thinks she's "doing it all" (direct quote), I'm the one paying it all, and still doing laundry, dishes, house cleaning, AND paying for her and her daughter's needs, the car, the rent, etc, etc, etc.
I have all the issues of being single, and all the issues of being married, and the pleasures of neither.
When do we decide to cash it in? How?
-Jean
I need some outside perspective and sanity would be nice, too.
Gripes:
- The girlfriend (lots of posts, but she's unaccepting)
- Budget: "Just Over Broke" - and at what I earn, there's NO excuse!
- Medical: GF needs heart surgery. I've arranged my insurance so it SHOULD work, but still a pressure. (It's to stop her tachtichardia, minor, arthroscopic sort of thing.)
And new events, as I'm trying to sort my $hit?
- GF's daughter!!!
+ practicing Wiccan
+ left her (bad) relationship to live with grandparents
* Promised a job
* Promised College
* promised a room at their home
She's now talking about moving back in - WITH US! (She doesn't want to go back to the BF, at least.)
Grandparents have decided she should be Catholic, won't help her with the job (she was supposedly transferred from up here to down there, but manager is a douche or idiot, and she can't work without a uniform, which "is on backorder." GP won't find another position.)
The girl doesn't drive, so obviously doesn't have license, forget car. BUT - GP's were going to cover her for learning to drive. Except...?
GP's had a "college account" for her. It has $18,000 in there. WTF?
GP's won't take her to the doctor (she has a "female problem" of some sort.)
GP's don't even want her talking to Mom alone. W-T-F....?
So, yeah, she BETTER be thinking of moving back in with us! We have an extra bedroom, she's 20, almost 21, and her mom's surgery is going to happen in January.
Still: I'm not "Out" to the girl. But I feel the pressure, more and more, as everyone here already knows. I'm THE breadwinner. If I lose my job, we're on the street. (See also, the G-D Budget! WTF indeed.)
The GF is opposed to breast growth/transition. My plan was to get her through the heart issues, and then after she recovers, tell her I'm done. Refuse to sign the lease again. I'm tired of taking on her problems and responsibilities, at GREAT personal cost (Bankruptcy, for example).
GF knew my oddities before she moved in a decade ago. Threw out my hormones when we moved... And has been (from her perspective) VERY tolerant... I'm allowed to sleep in a bra, and take herbal supplements "because they don't work." (She's taking Saw Palmetto at my suggestion, and no longer growing facial hair... As much, as fast. And she's not a raging bitch whenever she's awake. But herbs have no effect. Yeah...)
ANYWAY:
I think I've been more than fair, trying to "man up" and help a woman who isn't even my wife.
It's unfortunate the daughter will get burned, but it's not my problem, to my way of thinking.
I'd appreciate either agreement that I've done right, so far, and am justified in telling her we're done; OR, insights on how I can manage the two pieces of this mess, so I can both get on with my life, and still not "throw her out on the street."
She's working at a permanent position now, and if her daughter comes back home, there should be no problems finding work near Beantown.
But even together, they'd be below poverty levels.
Other than controlling the money (what money?), is there anything I could perhaps do better or differently? Or is it time for the ultimatum, and let things fall where they may?
Because I think ultimatum makes more sense...
I didn't want to be married. She knew that. It's a de facto marriage, and while she thinks she's "doing it all" (direct quote), I'm the one paying it all, and still doing laundry, dishes, house cleaning, AND paying for her and her daughter's needs, the car, the rent, etc, etc, etc.
I have all the issues of being single, and all the issues of being married, and the pleasures of neither.
When do we decide to cash it in? How?
-Jean
Whew, Dianna.
First off, you are not the only person who has decided to do this type of thing. I understand how frustrating things of this nature is.
Now, here is the morality preaching ...... It's Never Smart to have a live in situation that goes beyond a year or so..... It puts both on the defensive to the point of poison. There is a more permanence in marriage. The type very few couples get just "shacking up".
But, having have said that.....In a lot of States and quite a few countries, you are probably considered "Common Law". Which means you are as good as married. I would consult a lawyer if you finally decide to break it off. I think, after 10 yrs, it's silly to call her a GF or Fiancée, or anything other than your wife. (especially if you got her covered under your Med Insurance)
I would come out to her, and set everything down to her in easy understand simple sentences. To cover what you originally thought your relationship was going to be, and what it has turned into.
Figure out yourself, what would be an acceptable end of the "negotiations", rather it's finally getting married, living together but separate or continue on the roller coaster ride.. I would certainly be against the later... You and her both need to understand that presently, it's not good for anyone involved.....
I wish you luck..
First off, you are not the only person who has decided to do this type of thing. I understand how frustrating things of this nature is.
Now, here is the morality preaching ...... It's Never Smart to have a live in situation that goes beyond a year or so..... It puts both on the defensive to the point of poison. There is a more permanence in marriage. The type very few couples get just "shacking up".
But, having have said that.....In a lot of States and quite a few countries, you are probably considered "Common Law". Which means you are as good as married. I would consult a lawyer if you finally decide to break it off. I think, after 10 yrs, it's silly to call her a GF or Fiancée, or anything other than your wife. (especially if you got her covered under your Med Insurance)
I would come out to her, and set everything down to her in easy understand simple sentences. To cover what you originally thought your relationship was going to be, and what it has turned into.
Figure out yourself, what would be an acceptable end of the "negotiations", rather it's finally getting married, living together but separate or continue on the roller coaster ride.. I would certainly be against the later... You and her both need to understand that presently, it's not good for anyone involved.....
I wish you luck..
This post was last modified: 17-12-2015, 09:10 PM by The First Aria.
Perhaps this is a good set of answers...
http://www.returnofkings.com/34868/can-a-flaky-chick-be-fixed
Excerpted some relevant parts. Skipped the second heading details, but I included it because I've compared this relationship that way multiple times.
We have never lived in a common-law state, so that might help me skate by. But she's often been pushing the relationship, so - I don't know. And when we add in the gender issues? I mean, the more I read and reflect on the Manosphere teachings, and think about what's what WRT me? The more I come down to being feminine, wearing the "tough chick" armor. (Think Vasquez in Aliens; A bit part, but actually the only one who is so FROSTY - emotionally cold - that it makes sense. This isn't Alice from Resident Evil, or Kitana from Mortal Kombat, or the actress in Girlfight. Maybe Ronda Roussey while in the ring. I doubt she's cold outside the ring, though. )
[Excerpt]
Flaky Chicks Are Inwardly Terrified Of Rejection And Abandonment
What is it that lies at the heart of the full-blown flaky chick’s pathology? What is it that fuels her shockingly selfish behaviour and feelings of entitlement? My own researches have shown me that a very high percentage of flaky chicks have been in repeated abandonment/rejection scenarios at a sensitive age or they have been physically or sexually abused. One of the principal motivations for the flaky chick’s comportment is a fear of rejection or abandonment. Her whole world is concentrated on keeping these two elements out of her life.
The ordinary way of dealing with those things is to take action after they have happened. But the flaky chick lives in such a state of subliminal terror that she takes action before they have taken place — and in very drastic ways. This is one of the reasons for her huge anger if her strategies are uncovered. The façade must be maintained at all costs. The front must be preserved, whatever it takes. For the flaky chick cannot ever fully give herself to a relationship for fear of being rejected or abandoned. Most people know that rejection or abandonment is possible in a relationship but they still take the risk anyway. They reckon it’s worth it.
For the flaky chick, however, any notion of rejection or abandonment is akin to death. Her game is control and she has mastered the art. That is why she breaks off suddenly and inexplicably during text messaging. That is why she will disappear for days on end. That is why she reneges on appointments. That is why she tells lies to put people off the scent. These are all strategies to avoid commitment, to avoid being there for the other person. They are all strategies to deny love — to obstruct relationships.
She cannot give herself completely to anything or anyone for fear of rejection or abandonment. So her scattiness and unreachableness, in her own mind, keep her safe. She is “all over the place” so she doesn’t have to commit herself to one place alone. She manages to garner enough admiration from casual observers, general friends and acquaintances, so she doesn’t need to act out with them. Therefore they are often fooled by that façade and will never believe that she is the wife or lover from hell. But those who have been most intimate with her have tasted her terror and the bloody wrath which results from it.
So when you bring together that acute terror of abandonment or rejection with the narcissistic elements of being unable to withstand even a hint of criticism and an obsessive horror of being put down or having the narcissistic bubble burst, you can begin to understand the desperate interior pathology of the flaky chick, disguised behind her cool and engaging exterior.
Flaky Chicks Are Actually Rapists
[/Excerpt]
Good piece here, as well:
http://www.returnofkings.com/53923/girls-just-want-to-have-fun
Again, don't let the source fool you.
[Excerpt]
[Elliot] Rodger lamented the fact that women outright ignored his troubles, but that didn’t happen because women are heartless monsters. The truth is that women cannot handle their own problems, let alone the pressure men endure. What is normal life for men causes mental illness in women, as evidenced by Norah Vincent and her experience living as a man.
[/Excerpt]
(Norah Vincent's details linked to here: http://www.avoiceformen.com/men/the-self-made-man-norah-vincent-checking-her-privilege/)
I mention this because of our biology. Transgendered individuals have been shown through MRIs to have a mind which matches the target sex's normally-aligned gender (I.E., women tend to be feminine, men tend to be masculine.)
So, if we have the brain of the female sex, which is confirmed by the MRIs and the hormone profile results? It's known if you give a non-TG male estrogen, he gets "cranky." And giving testosterone to a woman.. When she gets body hair? Or her scalp hair thins? Her breasts shrink? She's aggressive, screaming all the time, angry? (Like my woman, until we started her on Saw Palmetto. And it's genetic for her, her mom died alone and delusional.) T drives women nuts. E drives Men nuts. TG's thrive on the altered hormonal profile.
But I've been working for years to be "more Alpha," "More Manly." Especially with this woman, I needed to counter her control-freak tendencies.
But since there's never been a "good time" to part ways - E.G., she gets a job, they "don't treat her right," she quits... - I'm still here. More frustrated, more stressed, more weary, more hurt.
She thinks I should go to therapy for my issues (I admit I should.)
But she seems to think that THAT is what will mark me as TG. Let's see, owning women's clothing when we met wasn't an indicator? The fact I TOLD her before we'd been dating too long (month or so)?
I think she's a disaster that found a place to happen, and I guess I need to "man up" one more time (this one's killing me, mind) - and toss her out. One way or another.
It's clear that if I go on estrogen, she'll "leave." Based on the past - I actually don't believe that. I don't think she'd kill the goose that lays the golden egg (rent, car payment, her crafts, food, entertainment, TV, phone bill, internet, and clothing, jewelry, etc.) And she expands to fill the space permitted - I.E., I cut expenses, but - we're broke again. Or, she spends to the hilt, and only recently have "we" been earning enough that we're mostly on time with the bills. (The dog was costly. Thousands in surgery, one month after another; hundreds on food; and then he got cancer... As did the cat, who we left behind in Jersey. She got to see him; I had to work. Note a trend...?) If I started to live as a woman, I think she'd move in the other bedroom, and just keep fleecing me.
When the survey times out, we should trash this thread. Off topic, too far removed from our theme.
I thank those who took the time to read, though.
-Jean
(Realizing I need to make a new name; Dianna doesn't fit, Artemis is an unknown now, and I'm looking to feminize - which for me means, "No more tough girl/make-believe Alpha." I used Jean so it was neutral, but it's not working any more.)
http://www.returnofkings.com/34868/can-a-flaky-chick-be-fixed
Excerpted some relevant parts. Skipped the second heading details, but I included it because I've compared this relationship that way multiple times.
We have never lived in a common-law state, so that might help me skate by. But she's often been pushing the relationship, so - I don't know. And when we add in the gender issues? I mean, the more I read and reflect on the Manosphere teachings, and think about what's what WRT me? The more I come down to being feminine, wearing the "tough chick" armor. (Think Vasquez in Aliens; A bit part, but actually the only one who is so FROSTY - emotionally cold - that it makes sense. This isn't Alice from Resident Evil, or Kitana from Mortal Kombat, or the actress in Girlfight. Maybe Ronda Roussey while in the ring. I doubt she's cold outside the ring, though. )
[Excerpt]
Flaky Chicks Are Inwardly Terrified Of Rejection And Abandonment
What is it that lies at the heart of the full-blown flaky chick’s pathology? What is it that fuels her shockingly selfish behaviour and feelings of entitlement? My own researches have shown me that a very high percentage of flaky chicks have been in repeated abandonment/rejection scenarios at a sensitive age or they have been physically or sexually abused. One of the principal motivations for the flaky chick’s comportment is a fear of rejection or abandonment. Her whole world is concentrated on keeping these two elements out of her life.
The ordinary way of dealing with those things is to take action after they have happened. But the flaky chick lives in such a state of subliminal terror that she takes action before they have taken place — and in very drastic ways. This is one of the reasons for her huge anger if her strategies are uncovered. The façade must be maintained at all costs. The front must be preserved, whatever it takes. For the flaky chick cannot ever fully give herself to a relationship for fear of being rejected or abandoned. Most people know that rejection or abandonment is possible in a relationship but they still take the risk anyway. They reckon it’s worth it.
For the flaky chick, however, any notion of rejection or abandonment is akin to death. Her game is control and she has mastered the art. That is why she breaks off suddenly and inexplicably during text messaging. That is why she will disappear for days on end. That is why she reneges on appointments. That is why she tells lies to put people off the scent. These are all strategies to avoid commitment, to avoid being there for the other person. They are all strategies to deny love — to obstruct relationships.
She cannot give herself completely to anything or anyone for fear of rejection or abandonment. So her scattiness and unreachableness, in her own mind, keep her safe. She is “all over the place” so she doesn’t have to commit herself to one place alone. She manages to garner enough admiration from casual observers, general friends and acquaintances, so she doesn’t need to act out with them. Therefore they are often fooled by that façade and will never believe that she is the wife or lover from hell. But those who have been most intimate with her have tasted her terror and the bloody wrath which results from it.
So when you bring together that acute terror of abandonment or rejection with the narcissistic elements of being unable to withstand even a hint of criticism and an obsessive horror of being put down or having the narcissistic bubble burst, you can begin to understand the desperate interior pathology of the flaky chick, disguised behind her cool and engaging exterior.
Flaky Chicks Are Actually Rapists
[/Excerpt]
Good piece here, as well:
http://www.returnofkings.com/53923/girls-just-want-to-have-fun
Again, don't let the source fool you.
[Excerpt]
[Elliot] Rodger lamented the fact that women outright ignored his troubles, but that didn’t happen because women are heartless monsters. The truth is that women cannot handle their own problems, let alone the pressure men endure. What is normal life for men causes mental illness in women, as evidenced by Norah Vincent and her experience living as a man.
[/Excerpt]
(Norah Vincent's details linked to here: http://www.avoiceformen.com/men/the-self-made-man-norah-vincent-checking-her-privilege/)
I mention this because of our biology. Transgendered individuals have been shown through MRIs to have a mind which matches the target sex's normally-aligned gender (I.E., women tend to be feminine, men tend to be masculine.)
So, if we have the brain of the female sex, which is confirmed by the MRIs and the hormone profile results? It's known if you give a non-TG male estrogen, he gets "cranky." And giving testosterone to a woman.. When she gets body hair? Or her scalp hair thins? Her breasts shrink? She's aggressive, screaming all the time, angry? (Like my woman, until we started her on Saw Palmetto. And it's genetic for her, her mom died alone and delusional.) T drives women nuts. E drives Men nuts. TG's thrive on the altered hormonal profile.
But I've been working for years to be "more Alpha," "More Manly." Especially with this woman, I needed to counter her control-freak tendencies.
But since there's never been a "good time" to part ways - E.G., she gets a job, they "don't treat her right," she quits... - I'm still here. More frustrated, more stressed, more weary, more hurt.
She thinks I should go to therapy for my issues (I admit I should.)
But she seems to think that THAT is what will mark me as TG. Let's see, owning women's clothing when we met wasn't an indicator? The fact I TOLD her before we'd been dating too long (month or so)?
I think she's a disaster that found a place to happen, and I guess I need to "man up" one more time (this one's killing me, mind) - and toss her out. One way or another.
It's clear that if I go on estrogen, she'll "leave." Based on the past - I actually don't believe that. I don't think she'd kill the goose that lays the golden egg (rent, car payment, her crafts, food, entertainment, TV, phone bill, internet, and clothing, jewelry, etc.) And she expands to fill the space permitted - I.E., I cut expenses, but - we're broke again. Or, she spends to the hilt, and only recently have "we" been earning enough that we're mostly on time with the bills. (The dog was costly. Thousands in surgery, one month after another; hundreds on food; and then he got cancer... As did the cat, who we left behind in Jersey. She got to see him; I had to work. Note a trend...?) If I started to live as a woman, I think she'd move in the other bedroom, and just keep fleecing me.
When the survey times out, we should trash this thread. Off topic, too far removed from our theme.
I thank those who took the time to read, though.
-Jean
(Realizing I need to make a new name; Dianna doesn't fit, Artemis is an unknown now, and I'm looking to feminize - which for me means, "No more tough girl/make-believe Alpha." I used Jean so it was neutral, but it's not working any more.)
This post was last modified: 18-12-2015, 05:01 PM by Dianna1395.
Hi Jean
Sounds like your in a pickle.
I think that you should pose all of what you told us, to the GF.
Tell her that you have a life to live and that includes expressing your feminine needs, Your tired of funding her life and not having anything for your self, etc. Things must change or the relationship is over.
Tough to do but You need to be your best friend.
The only other consideration is do you love her??
Bobbi
Sounds like your in a pickle.
I think that you should pose all of what you told us, to the GF.
Tell her that you have a life to live and that includes expressing your feminine needs, Your tired of funding her life and not having anything for your self, etc. Things must change or the relationship is over.
Tough to do but You need to be your best friend.
The only other consideration is do you love her??
Bobbi
(18-12-2015, 04:59 PM)Dianna1395 Wrote: Perhaps this is a good set of answers...
http://www.returnofkings.com/34868/can-a-flaky-chick-be-fixed
She thinks I should go to therapy for my issues (I admit I should.)
But she seems to think that THAT is what will mark me as TG. Let's see, owning women's clothing when we met wasn't an indicator? The fact I TOLD her before we'd been dating too long (month or so)?
I think she's a disaster that found a place to happen, and I guess I need to "man up" one more time (this one's killing me, mind) - and toss her out. One way or another.
When the survey times out, we should trash this thread. Off topic, too far removed from our theme.
I thank those who took the time to read, though.
-Jean
(Realizing I need to make a new name; Dianna doesn't fit, Artemis is an unknown now, and I'm looking to feminize - which for me means, "No more tough girl/make-believe Alpha." I used Jean so it was neutral, but it's not working any more.)
Well, I am thinking about SERIOUSLY talking to my doctor about "things" as well. And I think, rather it's sexual, or other worldly items. If you need to talk it out, WTF not?
As far as deleting this thread, I think it's very pertinent and would be wholly against such action.
It's hard to give a meaningful response when the outcome and effects do not end up causing the responder any hardship. However I'll put a few things down for you.
After the length of time you have been living together, it has to count for something . my feeling are you owe it to both of you to work this out. The daughter needs to be told before she moves home, It's on the girlfriend to decide if she wants to stay in the family home or not. Therapy !! Sure you can try it, if electric shock cannot cure us I doubt talking to a shrink will help. The therapy stands a chance of getting both of you to see the others side.
It's a crapshoot, I do not envy your position one little bit. But she needs to understand this is not going away, if anything if she does not accept or like what you are doing now then she needs to relise it's going to go even more, the further down the road you go. Let her the know the chance of you transitioning is very strong, so she needs to either put up, or make a decision on her next move.
Good luck
After the length of time you have been living together, it has to count for something . my feeling are you owe it to both of you to work this out. The daughter needs to be told before she moves home, It's on the girlfriend to decide if she wants to stay in the family home or not. Therapy !! Sure you can try it, if electric shock cannot cure us I doubt talking to a shrink will help. The therapy stands a chance of getting both of you to see the others side.
It's a crapshoot, I do not envy your position one little bit. But she needs to understand this is not going away, if anything if she does not accept or like what you are doing now then she needs to relise it's going to go even more, the further down the road you go. Let her the know the chance of you transitioning is very strong, so she needs to either put up, or make a decision on her next move.
Good luck
Jean,
To be blunt, I think you should fulfill any current agreements you made with your GF and then tell her to move out and move on with her life. She's not your wife, and as far as I know, you're not the father of her daughter (please correct me if I'm mistaken). According to her, she's doing it all, so it shouldn't matter to her if you decide to end all ties with her and her daughter.
Even without the issue of NBE, it sounds like you have a toxic relationship with this woman. Don't allow her to be abusive towards you any longer than absolutely necessary. I think the only "manning up" you need to do is getting yourself out of this dreadful situation.
To be blunt, I think you should fulfill any current agreements you made with your GF and then tell her to move out and move on with her life. She's not your wife, and as far as I know, you're not the father of her daughter (please correct me if I'm mistaken). According to her, she's doing it all, so it shouldn't matter to her if you decide to end all ties with her and her daughter.
Even without the issue of NBE, it sounds like you have a toxic relationship with this woman. Don't allow her to be abusive towards you any longer than absolutely necessary. I think the only "manning up" you need to do is getting yourself out of this dreadful situation.
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