[Lotus]

Am I missing something here ?

Julie

apparently.

Julie, did you not understand changing hormones changes brain chemistry/endocrine system towards female range?. Did you not know you could lose morning wood?, have less sperm ejaculate and volume?, and that testes and penis would shrink as a possibly.
This is all part of what losing some functionality does. Julie, you, should know more than anybody how many people go down the nbe pathway and the choose Hrt. (You warned a lot of them, including me).

Lack of commitment derails programs. We have folks with varied interests here as you know. Whats considered to be a nice rack of married tg folk?? I happen to be one of them. So, please, tell me what should I expect from a successful program, (what rack size?)...........do you have pictures we can see of your progress?.

[julieTG]

ah but I took you literally

as losing function

whereas losing some function is different,

now with me being autogenyphillic it works the opposite

when I am growing or on this stuff my function increases ,

vastly ???????

mainly because i get turned on by the thought and process off growing breasts,

yes dear lotus pics will be coming but I want to get past last stage growth and at the moment its very similar,



Julie

[Lotus]

I think we have an answer, Green Tea Extract- GTE inhibits prostate cancer by reducing the cell growth and blocks the androgen receptor. Green tea extract need to be @ 60-80% in EGCG polyphenols though. The dosage needs to be determined, recommend use is 2-3 capsules per day, I'm thinking it's slightly more (4-5?) from what this study says. Would this elimante the need for other anti-androgens?, possibly. Soooo- I see a good plan as follows: (though, it's up to you, it won't hurt my feelings).

1-pro-estrogen source
1-pro-aromatase
Green tea extract (imo 4-5 caps per day)
1-growth hormone source
Add the standard healthy fats, exercise, massage, pumping, etc.

Epigallocatechin-3-gallate EGCG, the major polyphenolic constituent present in green tea, imparts antiproliferative effects against both androgen-sensitive and androgen-insensitive human PCA cells, and this effect is mediated by deregulation in cell cycle and induction of apoptosis. GTE is potent inhibitors of type 1 but not type 2 5α-reductase. (−)Epigallocatechin-3-gallate also inhibits accessory sex gland growth in the rat. These results suggest that certain tea gallates can regulate androgen action in target organs.

EGCG (green tea) acts as an antagonist of androgen function, similar to the pharmacological inhibitor Casodex, which was used as a control.

So what does this mean?,........it means green tea acts like a pro-pharma class of anti-androgens named Casodex, as in brand name Bicalutamide-aka, a pure antiandrogen used in the treatment of prostate cancer:

Bicalutamide
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casodex

Green tea polyphenol EGCG blunts androgen receptor function in prostate cancer
The present study is one of the first few reports demonstrating the antiandrogenic action of a plant product and the first report showing the effect of EGCG, a naturally occurring polyphenol present in green tea, in inhibiting human prostate carcinoma cell growth. We have shown that EGCG effectively inhibits the transactivation functions and expression of AR by interfering with its stability as a result of decreased interdomain interaction (Fig. 5). We also showed that EGCG is a novel antagonisAR signaling, which can block AR-regulated gene expression and cell growth in human PCa cells. We thus suggest that EGCG could be developed as a chemotherapeutic agent against hormone-refractory PCa.

http://www.fasebj.org/content/25/4/1198.full

[spanky (aka Lola)]

Lotus -

What green tea extract do yourecommend. To date, I've been relying on a couple of cups of brewed tea per day but cannot tell if it has any effect.

Also, what is a "pro-hormone?" I think I have the other bases covered, which leaves me perpetually at second base.

spanky

[Lotus]

Lotus -

What green tea extract do yourecommend. To date, I've been relying on a couple of cups of brewed tea per day but cannot tell if it has any effect.

Also, what is a "pro-hormone?" I think I have the other bases covered, which leaves me perpetually at second base.

spanky

Hi spanky,

I don't have a brand yet, but it's going to be more like 8-12 cups per day according to the research (see below). However, the bio-availability of GTE is long: 1 μg/mL inhibits cancer cell growth for 96 hours. Given enough time (lol) I'll find that GTE is an CYP 17 inhibitor, if it isn't, it should be. I'd go for GTE in pill form, I don't think I could do 8-12 cups. Maybe a combination of liquids/capsules.

Anyways, we'd be looking for a GTE @ 80% polyphenols.....,I've seen them out there, I'm guessing $20-30?.....the cost savings?, priceless in my mind, in other words GTE benefits reaches far beyond our purpose for NBE. (See study below)

Epigallocatechin 3-Gallate and Green Tea Catechins: United They Work, Divided They Fail
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles...175934.pdf

[Lotus]

Lotus -

What green tea extract do yourecommend. To date, I've been relying on a couple of cups of brewed tea per day but cannot tell if it has any effect.

Also, what is a "pro-hormone?" I think I have the other bases covered, which leaves me perpetually at second base.

spanky

Hi spanky,

I don't have a brand yet, but it's going to be more like 8-12 cups per day according to the research (see below). However the bio-availability of GTE is long: 1 μg/mL inhibits cancer cell growth for 96 hours. Given enough time (lol) I'll find that GTE is an CYP 17 inhibitor, if it isn't, it should be. I'd go for GTE in pill form, I don't think I could do 8-12 cups. Maybe a combination of liquids/capsules.

Anyways, we'd be looking for a GTE @ 80% polyphenols.....,I've seen them out there, I'm guessing $20-30?.....the cost savings?, priceless in my mind, in other words GTE benefits reaches far beyond our purpose for NBE. (See study below)

Epigallocatechin 3-Gallate and Green Tea Catechins: United They Work, Divided They Fail
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles...175934.pdf

Oh, sorry,

Pro hormone is a precursor to real hormones, though pro-horomes are not a real hormone, make sense?........in other words, a pro hormone (drug) modifies the cellular structure for increased performance, like what a BB would use to max out other steroid drugs.

My example would be: if NBE was a real hormone (lol) green tea would be my pro-hormone.

[Huggy]

Umm..... Lotus.... Buddy...... What have you just done?

My one working brain cell has just melted trying to work out the implications here. And I realise I may be getting the wrong end of the stick. Which I will admit it wouldn't be the first time.

But been reading and re-reading this post and I am getting a weird feeling in my belly (though that could just be the coconut oil gurgling ;-) that you may just have re written the game here?

Am I jumping the gun????

Huggy

[Lotus]

Umm..... Lotus.... Buddy...... What have you just done?

My one working brain cell has just melted trying to work out the implications here. And I realise I may be getting the wrong end of the stick. Which I will admit it wouldn't be the first time.

But been reading and re-reading this post and I am getting a weird feeling in my belly (though that could just be the coconut oil gurgling ;-) that you may just have re written the game here?

Am I jumping the gun????

Huggy

Haha, gurgle away my friend (I'm eating me spinach today)

I think we made some science make sense to benefit NBE, (I hope so though).

[Huggy]

Umm..... Lotus.... Buddy...... What have you just done?

My one working brain cell has just melted trying to work out the implications here. And I realise I may be getting the wrong end of the stick. Which I will admit it wouldn't be the first time.

But been reading and re-reading this post and I am getting a weird feeling in my belly (though that could just be the coconut oil gurgling ;-) that you may just have re written the game here?

Am I jumping the gun????

Huggy

Haha, gurgle away my friend (I'm eating me spinach today)

I think we made some science make sense to benefit NBE, (I hope so though).

Think I will need to let this slowly soak into my brain for a few days. Will probably have a couple of questions to throw at you by then if I may?

If Green Tea Extract proves to be that effective, it really does re-write the rule book.

Who would have thunk it huh?

[Alison59]

Hi spanky,

I don't have a brand yet, but it's going to be more like 8-12 cups per day according to the research (see below). However, the bio-availability of GTE is long: 1 μg/mL inhibits cancer cell growth for 96 hours. Given enough time (lol) I'll find that GTE is an CYP 17 inhibitor, if it isn't, it should be. I'd go for GTE in pill form, I don't think I could do 8-12 cups. Maybe a combination of liquids/capsules.

Anyways, we'd be looking for a GTE @ 80% polyphenols.....,I've seen them out there, I'm guessing $20-30?.....the cost savings?, priceless in my mind, in other words GTE benefits reaches far beyond our purpose for NBE. (See study below)

Epigallocatechin 3-Gallate and Green Tea Catechins: United They Work, Divided They Fail




http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles...175934.pdf

Thanks Lotus, looking forward to hearing more about this

I think you might well be correct in your thories:

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1271/bbb.70258

Apologies if you already seen this

Is the 60-80% Polyphenols amount critical these claim to be 95%?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Green-Tea-Extr...Sw5IJWd~tP

Seem to be a good price too.