[The First Aria]

That's good to know about MSM, since I am taking it to help with my arthritic joints... That could possibly explain the jump in growth over the last two months for me....????

How much do you take MB?

The label directions says 1-6 caps, each one being 1000mg. But I only take 2-3 per day. Was waiting to see if it helped my knee and hips.

[Lotus]

For general info: A likely target or trigger of breast cancer is the phosphorylation of the enzyme tyrosine kinase, as seen here:


A cascade of events through phosphorylation of intracellular proteins that ultimately transmit ("transduce") the extracellular signal to the nucleus, causing changes in gene expression. Many RTKs are involved in oncogenesis, either by gene mutation, or chromosome translocation,[14] or simply by over-expression. In every case, the result is a hyper-active kinase, that confers an aberrant, ligand-independent, non-regulated growth stimulus to the cancer cells.

tyrosine kinase is an enzyme that can transfer a phosphate group from ATPto a protein in a cell. It functions as an "on" or "off" switch in many cellular functions. Tyrosine kinases are a subclass of protein kinase.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrosine_kinase

[Lotus]

A useful strategy for NBE could be to indenify what substrates will/won't work for us. We always think hormone testing (yes useful) is the first line of progress or problem areas (deficiencies). Instead, I think (if finances permitted) a human genome test could map out (or eliminate) the drugs we can't use. Is cost analysis worth the investment compared to all the drama that comes from our lost time, money, sanity waiting for boobs to finally grow.

in the absence of such an endeavor (genome testing) this (below) is the next best thing, yes complicated, but didn't we just find out that MSM inhibits DHT and promotes aromatase by using this method below:

This is a post (smart fella, this MarDok42) from a PCOS board:

In the last few days my pharmacist friend explained to me when you block testosterone with one herb it will only block its production from one or two gene pathways, and a lot of the pro-hormones (hormone precursors) will find another pathway to testosterone, but it does give it a little longer to possibly become an estrogen. So to have more effective herbs, block more pathways with different types of herbs. Here's what I got so far.

Below are the genes that are involved in testosterone syntheses, they are the ones that start with 'CYP'. I have begun to cross referenced them with known chemicals in herbs that are known to inhibit these genes. If you want to find a synergistic herbal combination you might want to find a few herbs with these chemicals or others in it to inhibit(block) the majority of this gene set.

This is by no means a comprehensive list because I only started this project a week ago in my free time. But I thought that there might be other science geeks out there that would like to poke around the gene websites too.

Genes Involved in Testosterone Syntheses with corsponding inhibitors.

CYP1A2(also makes an Estrogen).....,cimetidine (inhibits)
CYP1B1(also makes an Estrogen)
CYP2B1– apigenin,Curcumin
CYP2B6– apigenin,Curcumin,Kaempferol
CYP2A3- lignans, genistein, Kaempferol
CYP2C11(Men Only)
CYP3A4 - lignans, Kaempferol, genistein, Curcumin (cimetidine, inhibits)
CYP3A5 - lignans, Kaempferol, genistein, Curcumin
CYP3A9 -
CYP19A1 -


Some Herbs and the anti androgen chemicals in them.

apigenin(chamomille)
Quercetin (chamomille)
genistein(Soy)
Curcumin(Vanalla, Turmeric)
Kaempferol(Peony, Dill)
lignans (Flax)

steroidogenic enzymes represent targets for complete suppression of systemic and intratumoral androgen levels, an objective that is supported by the clinical efficacy of the CYP17 inhibitor abiraterone.

[ellacraig]

That's good to know about MSM, since I am taking it to help with my arthritic joints... That could possibly explain the jump in growth over the last two months for me....????

How much do you take MB?

The label directions says 1-6 caps, each one being 1000mg. But I only take 2-3 per day. Was waiting to see if it helped my knee and hips.

Sorry Ia off with the fairies...
Ok I take the loose form, I understood maybe 5000mgs per teaspoon?.. might look into that. But yeh Vit C with it they say to amp the results.. I might to a full teaspoon split with 1000mg vit c alongside.. My knees been playing up past few days

[Lotus]

That's good to know about MSM, since I am taking it to help with my arthritic joints... That could possibly explain the jump in growth over the last two months for me....????

How much do you take MB?

The label directions says 1-6 caps, each one being 1000mg. But I only take 2-3 per day. Was waiting to see if it helped my knee and hips.

Sorry Ia off with the fairies...
Ok I take the loose form, I understood maybe 5000mgs per teaspoon?.. might look into that. But yeh Vit C with it they say to amp the results.. I might to a full teaspoon split with 1000mg vit c alongside.. My knees been playing up past few days

Efficacy of methylsulfonylmethane (MSM) in osteoarthritis pain of the knee: a pilot clinical trial.
Kim LS1, Axelrod LJ, Howard P, Buratovich N, Waters RF.
Author information

Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
Osteoarthritis (OA) is the most common form of arthritis and the second most common cause of long-term disability among middle-aged and older adults in the United States. Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM) is a popular dietary supplement used as a single agent and in combination with other nutrients, and purported to be beneficial for arthritis. However, there is paucity of evidence to support the use of MSM.
METHODS:
A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial was conducted. Fifty men and women, 40-76 years of age with knee OA pain were enrolled in an outpatient medical center. Intervention was MSM 3g or placebo twice a day for 12 weeks (6g/day total). Outcomes included the Western Ontario and McMaster University Osteoarthritis Index visual analogue scale (WOMAC), patient and physician global assessments (disease status, response to therapy), and SF-36 (overall health-related quality of life).
RESULTS:
Compared to placebo, MSM produced significant decreases in WOMAC pain and physical function impairment (P<0.05). No notable changes were found in WOMAC stiffness and aggregated total symptoms scores. MSM also produced improvement in performing activities of daily living when compared to placebo on the SF-36 evaluation (P<0.05).
CONCLUSION:
MSM (3g twice a day) improved symptoms of pain and physical function during the short intervention without major adverse events. The benefits and safety of MSM in managing OA and long-term use cannot be confirmed from this pilot trial, but its potential clinical application is examined. Underlying mechanisms of action and need for further investigation of MSM are discussed.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16309928

[ellacraig]

That's good to know about MSM, since I am taking it to help with my arthritic joints... That could possibly explain the jump in growth over the last two months for me....????

How much do you take MB?

The label directions says 1-6 caps, each one being 1000mg. But I only take 2-3 per day. Was waiting to see if it helped my knee and hips.

Sorry Ia off with the fairies...
Ok I take the loose form, I understood maybe 5000mgs per teaspoon?.. might look into that. But yeh Vit C with it they say to amp the results.. I might to a full teaspoon split with 1000mg vit c alongside.. My knees been playing up past few days

Efficacy of methylsulfonylmethane (MSM) in osteoarthritis pain of the knee: a pilot clinical trial.
Kim LS1, Axelrod LJ, Howard P, Buratovich N, Waters RF.
Author information

Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
Osteoarthritis (OA) is the most common form of arthritis and the second most common cause of long-term disability among middle-aged and older adults in the United States. Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM) is a popular dietary supplement used as a single agent and in combination with other nutrients, and purported to be beneficial for arthritis. However, there is paucity of evidence to support the use of MSM.
METHODS:
A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial was conducted. Fifty men and women, 40-76 years of age with knee OA pain were enrolled in an outpatient medical center. Intervention was MSM 3g or placebo twice a day for 12 weeks (6g/day total). Outcomes included the Western Ontario and McMaster University Osteoarthritis Index visual analogue scale (WOMAC), patient and physician global assessments (disease status, response to therapy), and SF-36 (overall health-related quality of life).
RESULTS:
Compared to placebo, MSM produced significant decreases in WOMAC pain and physical function impairment (P<0.05). No notable changes were found in WOMAC stiffness and aggregated total symptoms scores. MSM also produced improvement in performing activities of daily living when compared to placebo on the SF-36 evaluation (P<0.05).
CONCLUSION:
MSM (3g twice a day) improved symptoms of pain and physical function during the short intervention without major adverse events. The benefits and safety of MSM in managing OA and long-term use cannot be confirmed from this pilot trial, but its potential clinical application is examined. Underlying mechanisms of action and need for further investigation of MSM are discussed.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16309928

No clinical trials and what not because "you know why"... but they use 10 Grams along with vit c in certain cancer treatment methods. Adverse affects? Guts ache possibly I imagine but proves msm's worth huh.. I'd risk. Guts ache for that

[ellacraig]

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articl...efits.aspx

This sold me on msm. He reckons up to 6 grams. I can attest 5 grams gave me a funny tummy but I took that in one hit without working up to it. I might brave say 3-4 grams tonight. Husbands knee is bad at the mo so I will try sneak him some msm as well. He'd never admit even if it did help because HEAVEN FORBID if you deviate from what the almighty Drs say..

[Lotus]

A useful strategy for NBE could be to indenify what substrates will/won't work for us. We always think hormone testing (yes useful) is the first line of progress or problem areas (deficiencies). Instead, I think (if finances permitted) a human genome test could map out (or eliminate) the drugs we can't use. Is cost analysis worth the investment compared to all the drama that comes from our lost time, money, sanity waiting for boobs to finally grow.

in the absence of such an endeavor (genome testing) this (below) is the next best thing, yes complicated, but didn't we just find out that MSM inhibits DHT and promotes aromatase by using this method below:

This is a post (smart fella, this MarDok42) from a PCOS board:

In the last few days my pharmacist friend explained to me when you block testosterone with one herb it will only block its production from one or two gene pathways, and a lot of the pro-hormones (hormone precursors) will find another pathway to testosterone, but it does give it a little longer to possibly become an estrogen. So to have more effective herbs, block more pathways with different types of herbs. Here's what I got so far.

Below are the genes that are involved in testosterone syntheses, they are the ones that start with 'CYP'. I have begun to cross referenced them with known chemicals in herbs that are known to inhibit these genes. If you want to find a synergistic herbal combination you might want to find a few herbs with these chemicals or others in it to inhibit(block) the majority of this gene set.

This is by no means a comprehensive list because I only started this project a week ago in my free time. But I thought that there might be other science geeks out there that would like to poke around the gene websites too.

Genes Involved in Testosterone Syntheses with corsponding inhibitors.

CYP1A2(also makes an Estrogen).....,cimetidine (inhibits)
CYP1B1(also makes an Estrogen)
CYP2B1– apigenin,Curcumin
CYP2B6– apigenin,Curcumin,Kaempferol
CYP2A3- lignans, genistein, Kaempferol
CYP2C11(Men Only)
CYP3A4 - lignans, Kaempferol, genistein, Curcumin (cimetidine, inhibits), sesame seeds and oil. Piperine
CYP3A5 - lignans, Kaempferol, genistein, Curcumin
CYP3A9 -
CYP19A1 -


Some Herbs and the anti androgen chemicals in them.

apigenin(chamomille)
Quercetin (chamomille)
genistein(Soy)
Curcumin(Vanalla, Turmeric)
Kaempferol(Peony, Dill)
lignans (Flax)

steroidogenic enzymes represent targets for complete suppression of systemic and intratumoral androgen levels, an objective that is supported by the clinical efficacy of the CYP17 inhibitor abiraterone.

Remember, by identifying these enzymes it provides information of drug-drug interactions. What's also key is the fact that certain cancers can be identified by examining these ezymens with interactions.


Here's a new one called CYP2C8, which metabolizes fatty acids. another CYP17's , which CYP17A modifies estrogen metabolism.


CYP2C8- lignans-Quercetin, linoleic acid
CYP17 -lignans-green tea (inhibits DHT)
CYP17A modifies estrogen metabolism

When used in quantities typical for flavoring food, black pepper is not likely to affect the disposition of most medications. However, excessive use of black pepper or intake of dietary supplements formulated with P. nigrum or P. longum extracts may produce clinically significant interactions with drugs. This may be of particular concern when CYP3A and/or ABCB1 substrates are ingested concomitantly with piperine or piperamides in excess of 10 mg.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?filters=&orig_db=PubMed&cmd=Search&term=134%2A%5Bvolume%5D%20AND%201948%5Bpage%5D%20AND%202004%5Bpdat%5D%20AND%20Lambert%20JD%5Bauth%5D

[Lotus]

Estrogen pathway for mammary density
HSD3B1,
HSD17B1
(cytochrome' P450)
CYP27B1, CYP24 metabolizes enzymes in mammary cells, Vitamin D elongates breast
CYP1A1
CYP1A2
CYP17A1
CYP19A1
CYP1B1
COMT-catechol-O-methyltransferase
UGT1A1-uridine diphospho-glucuronosyltransferase -(catalyzes estrogen)
SULT1A1, SULT1E1- sulfotransferases
ESR1, ESR2-estrogen receptors alpha and beta



CYP17 and CYP1A1-1 play a role in the pathogenesis of fibroadenoma. Meaning something like cigarette smoke can have direct role on the CYP1A1 enzyme metabolism, e.g. progression of fibroadenomas. In other words, as bad as smoking is, 2nd hand smoke can further exacerbate fibroadenomas.

[Lotus]

I think it now makes sense to add to the testosterone pathway metabolism......sheesh!, what am I thinking, wtf!, this ain't going to be easy identifying two steroid classes of metabolism. taking it a step further?, would be adding C19 aromatase lignans. What??? madness!!!



CYP17A1-lignans-CLA (conjugated linoleic acid) stimulates testosterone biosynthesis via leydig cells.

(odd because CYP17 inhibits testosterone).

CYP17A1-gene encodes a member of the cytochrome P450 superfamily of enzymes. The cytochrome P450 proteins are monooxygenases which catalyze many reactions involved in drug metabolism and synthesis of cholesterol, steroids and other lipids. This protein localizes to the endoplasmic reticulum. It has both 17alpha-hydroxylase and 17,20-lyase activities and is a key enzyme in the steroidogenic pathway that produces progestins, mineralocorticoids, glucocorticoids, androgens, and estrogens. Mutations in this gene are associated with isolated steroid-17 alpha-hydroxylase deficiency, 17-alpha-hydroxylase/17,20-lyase deficiency, pseudohermaphroditism, and adrenal hyperplasia. [provided by RefSeq, Jul 2008]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/gene?cmd=search&term=1586