[c4pt4in8008]

Hi Lotus!
I'm a big fan of your work here.

Posted by Lotus - 09-05-2015 10:39 PM
So I've been looking into forskolin, cAMP and other aromatase ideas. When the afore mentioned items are exposed to E2 I think these levels mentioned below will see increased expression.

To further investigate the mechanism of induction of aromatase in H295R cells by the flavonoid quercetin and isoflavone genistein, their effect on intracellular cAMP production and the promoter-specific expression of mRNA coding for CYP19 was examined. Quercetin and genistein increased intracellular cAMP levels about 1.7-fold and 1.4-fold, respectively, after a 4 h exposure. In comparison, the positive control forskolin elevated cAMP levels over 5-fold. Initial RT-PCR experiments performed to detect cAMP promoter-specific transcript for CYP19 demonstrated that the cAMP analog 8Br-cAMP significantly increased pII and I.3 transcripts in a RNA concentration range between 0.1 and 100 ng (Fig. 4). The relative expression level of pII appeared to be greater than that of I.3, as did its inducibility by 8Br-cAMP, although we emphasize that the RT-PCR method was semiquantitative. Forskolin (data not shown), 8Br-cAMP, genistein and quercetin (Fig. 5) increased CYP19 mRNA levels that were specific for the aromatase promoters pII and I.3 after a 24 h exposure. Quercetin increased pII and I.3-specific transcript about 2.6-fold and 2-fold, respectively; genistein 2.3-fold and 1.8-fold, respectively (Fig. 5). The positive control 8Br-cAMP increased pII and I.3-specific transcript about 2.7-fold and 2.3-fold, respectively (Fig. 5).

Induction and Inhibition of Aromatase (CYP19) Activity by Natural and Synthetic Flavonoid Compounds in H295R Human Adrenocortical Carcinoma Cells
http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/content/82/1/70.long


Forskolin promotes aromatase 5 fold
Quercetin promotes aromatase 2-3 fold
White peony promotes aromatase 2 fold
Genistein increased intracellular cAMP levels about 1.7-fold and 1.4-fold,

Inhibition of 5α-reductase results in decreased conversion of testosterone to DHT, leading to increased testosterone and estradiol. Other enzymes compensate to a degree for the absent conversion, spec voifically with local expression at the skin of reductive 17b-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, oxidative 3a-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, and 3b-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzymes. Inhibition of the enzyme can be classified into two categories: steroidal, which are irreversible, and nonsteroidal. 5-α reductase 2 is the one we're interested in.

I'd read research on Forscolin, white peony and Genistein, but quercetin surprised me. Is there any more research on quercetin and aromatase? it's a fairly easy to find element in many foods, after all. It looks like capers are the big one for that.

Do you think quercetin would be useful for NBE, or are there other effects that limit it's effectiveness?

[Lotus]

Yeah that's a tough one, I believe Quercetin is bio-directional, meaning it could go either way. In that study it shows 2-3 fold activity in breast cancer test cells. cAMP (a second messenger) is also stated to an almost equal value as Quercetin, maybe slightly higher. Quercetin can raise SHBG, and when SHBG is high, aromatase will be down regulated. Imo, in lower concentrations (Quercetin) might work better, but everybody reacts differently, so results may vary.

Second messengers are molecules that relay signals received at receptors on the cell surface — such as the arrival of protein hormones, growth factors, etc. — to target molecules in the cytosol and/or nucleus.

But in addition to their job as relay molecules, second messengers serve to greatly amplify the strength of the signal. Binding of a ligand to a single receptor at the cell surface may end up causing massive changes in the biochemical activities within the cell.
http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultrane...ngers.html

To your question, is Quecertin useful for NBE, at this point I'd be more inclined to say forskolin would be better, but sourcing a legitimate product is the issue imo. Believe it or not you should look into horny goat weed, ICARIIN in goat weed is very much a second messenger, and it's about where (little below) the effectiveness as forskloin in an pro-aromatase. Vitamin D3 would also work too, (see previous posts regarding each in the thread).

Great question, thanks.

[sissymike]

Lotus, the Aromatase comment you made makes sense, I understand that taking White Peony Root Extract increases the affect of Aromatase. Do you know if it does and will it help me? I am also taking PM and SP. Thanks for your comments

[Lotus]

Lotus, the Aromatase comment you made makes sense, I understand that taking White Peony Root Extract increases the affect of Aromatase. Do you know if it does and will it help me? I am also taking PM and SP. Thanks for your comments

Hi sissymike,

If it's a reliable product it does. You know it's also an anti-spasmodic, (good for IBS, cramps, etc). As a result, some NBE herbs and Pharma meds have interactions that cause spasms, (FYI). I choose extract most often because of its absorption rate of 98% as opposed to about 25% through the liver. SP is ok for starters, however in the prostate it's weak (about 32%) for inhibiting DHT. Reishi extract (again, product makes a difference) is close to 80%. Fatty acids also inhibit DHT, (walnuts, borage oil come to mind).

(All this info is posted in the Anti-Androgen thread for reference)......collecting dust lmao.
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=17416

[catbeginner]

Not even sure I am in the proper place at this site. I am NEW as of today to move forward with breast growth for genetic males. I have ALWAYS had an attraction to my then very small pencil point nipples. Over the last 10 years I have tried to start on estrogen (about 4 month of estrogen via pills. With such a short exposure not much growth, but I got the most sensitive nipples ever.) Two years ago I got a pair of SuppleNips (suction cups that pull on the nipple.) I have gotten nice results from wearing the SuppleNips , now about three hours per day. I also use a lot of poppers while wearing the SuppleNips and have found the poppers and Nips are the best ever feeling. I hit the poppers and play with my nipples to orgasm 4-5 times every week. During these sessions I found the small ducts near the top of the breast area near the arm pit and have massaged these ducts each time I put on the Nips. Now I have started to see some real increase in the amount of breast tissue on both breasts. Win-Win. My nipples are nearly twice the starting size, 1/2 inch long and about the same size in thickness at the base. Now I am absolutely going to get back on the estrogen and develop my breast. I still want to have male function. But I do not have any idea what to do. Please, please give me some guidance in this journey. I keep my chest shaved and throughly enjoy the feel of my nipples on my clothing. My nipples have grown to the point where they are clearly visible. Even under a sweater! Now I need to grow my breasts. I need help on what to order and what dosage to take. Please feel free to send private message to get me off to a good start.

[Lotus]

Not even sure I am in the proper place at this site.

It's cool, no worries. Welcome to BN.

My nipples are nearly twice the starting size, 1/2 inch long and about the same size in thickness at the base. Now I am absolutely going to get back on the estrogen and develop my breast.

Wow, you weren't joking, they look huge.

I still want to have male function. But I do not have any idea what to do. Please, please give me some guidance in this journey.

Well, after 3.5 years of NBE/HRT I still have function, even with a 1% bioavailable T score. Certainly, we can point you in the right direction. There's some real sincere people here who like to help, it's a nice collaborative.

I keep my chest shaved and throughly enjoy the feel of my nipples on my clothing. My nipples have grown to the point where they are clearly visible. Even under a sweater! Now I need to grow my breasts.

Excess body tells me your DHT needs controlled. Skin/scalp is a major site of DHT production. It produces facial and body hair and then burns out the scalp hair follicle, Nast business, Plus, when it's present in the prostate, testes, brain and adrenals it's a tough task to control, but doable.

I need help on what to order and what dosage to take. Please feel free to send private message to get me off to a good start.

Ok, I will.

[Darla]

Sound like catbeginner and I are in the same boat.
Love your research Lotus and Dynseli. You add so much information to this community... kinda like BN's Dr Ozzz lol
I have read many of your articles.
Looks like GreenTea, WP and Reishi would be a good start, but I'm not sure.
Feel free to PM me if you can recommend a great beginning NBE start.
Thanks.

[Lotus]

Sound like catbeginner and I are in the same boat.
Love your research Lotus and Dynseli. You add so much information to this community... kinda like BN's Dr Ozzz lol
I have read many of your articles.
Looks like GreenTea, WP and Reishi would be a good start, but I'm not sure.
Feel free to PM me if you can recommend a great beginning NBE start.
Thanks.

Ah lol thanks @ oz.

Yes, those are a good start to use, however, I have a new, cheaper more effective plan, I listed part of it in your intro post.

[Lotus]

If we really want to blow the doors off aromatase we'd turn our attention to EGFR(epiderrmal growth factor), which sits of the outside of cells, and is esstetial part Mammary Gland Development. So, the question is " how come we don't know about it? ", my guess?.....its to F**kin complicated lol. I'll take at stab at it though: note the highlighted areas, I believe EGFR combined and inhibiting histone deacetylation (HDAC) while upregulating PGE2, should make for the strongest aromatase.......say what?, broad strokes of course, I'm still working on the rough edges as to how it translates to NBE. over stimulus concerns are top priority. In other words, if we can find away around the trouble spots, it lessens proliferation.


function of the epidermal growth factor receptor and erbB-2 during mammary gland morphogenesis.
Sebastian J1, Richards RG, Walker MP, Wiesen JF, Werb Z, Derynck R, Hom YK, Cunha GR, DiAugustine RP.
Author information
Abstract
The hormonal stimulation of mammary gland morphogenesis is believed to occur through growth factor receptor signaling pathways. To determine the importance of the epidermal growth factor receptor (EGFR) pathway, we examined extracts of inguinal mammary glands from prepubertal and pubertal mice for tyrosine-phosphorylated EGFR and other erbB receptors. Tyrosine phosphorylation of both EGFR and erbB-2 was detected in normal female BALB/c mice at 5-6 weeks of age, but not during the prepubertal stage, e.g., 24 days of age. Treatment of mice with estradiol or epidermal growth factor also stimulated the formation of mammary EGFR/erbB-2 phosphotyrosine. Waved-2 mice, which have impaired EGFR kinase activity, exhibited less mammary development than did wild-type (wt) mice when both were evaluated at 36 days of age. Because EGFR knockout (KO) mice die shortly after birth, glands from the newborns were implanted under the renal capsules of female nude mice. Under these conditions, extensive ductal growth was observed in mammary glands from wt animals; in contrast, glands from EGFR KO mice failed to grow beyond rudimentary structures. Tissue recombinants revealed that the wt fat pad supported the morphogenesis of EGFR KO epithelium, whereas the EGFR KO fat pad did not. Taken together, these data suggest that EGFR is essential for morphogenesis of the mammary ducts and functions during this period of mammary development as a heterodimer with erbB-2 in the mammary stroma.




   

http://www.intechopen.com/books/malignan...esotheliom

[Lotus]

A possible hypothesis:

COX expression results in higher levels of prostaglandin E2 (PGE2), which in turn increases CYP19 mRNA & protein expression through increases in intracellular cyclic AMP levels.