[John123]

Hi,
I would discute about the provocatory title of my post, but read before the follow page:

http://yestheyrenatural.com/how-to-get-b...r-therapy/

In this page you can read that bovine ovary function regulate pituitary gland, so can regulate as conseguence the product hormons, but the mens not have ovary for produce hormon, so there is not hormon regulation.
BO have also some residual hormon in tissue, but is secondary effect and maybe thank this that some man have some results.
I think that residual hormon in tissue is not calibrated by productors and can vary from every pills to another, so there are male that function good and male that not function.
BO is simply ovarian tissue in pills.
In another site:

http://malebreastenlargement101.com/the-...-hormones/

There is write the same about other site and we can understand that in female is only regulation of hormon and in man aromatase, but in another follow site is write maybe more clear:

http://www.transfemme.com/about-transfemme/

BO is more testosterone lower for competition with estrogen, so maybe is really good take PM with BO.
At the last the more important from "Society of endocrinology" the study in vitro about AROMATIZATION IN VITRO OF NEUTRAL STEROIDS BY BOVINE OVARIES:

http://joe.endocrinology-journals.org/content/41/4/461

Aromatization is only in vitro and with some precise condition.
Another scientific article about aromatization in man:

http://joe.endocrinology-journals.org/co...fc451e62a0

The true problem for male is that non have estrogen production gland, so you need ever external resource of estrogen (some estrogen is product from surrenals but is very few quantity).
Without estrogen there is not possibility have feminization effect stable.
A possibility is chemical castration so the production of testosterone is ever low and feminization not change much also without estrogen.
Think at menopause, the womans with very low estrogen are ever woman, so important is have very low testosterone.
Finally witout castration is very hard have feminization without supplement.
For the future maybe will be possible implant ovary cells in man for produce estrogen (in man exist few cells for produce estrogen, but is easy in laboratory multiply cells and after implant for produce estrogen).
Hope my post is useful.

[John123]

Hi,
I would write about the natural aromatization in man and in old woman.
Natural aromatization is normal in man body, think at old mens that little grow boobs, and in vitro bovine ovary stimulate aromatization, the true problem is understand if bovine ovarian can stimulate aromatization also in humans and not only in vitro.
Maybe is some man function and in other not because are different the condition in which operate BO.
In vitro is controlled environment, but in body is not know what is the environment in wich BO must work.
The aromatase is an enzyme, and as all enzymes have long life but not forever, the cells must regenerate enzymes, the enzymes are proteins and are product from cells using DNA, so there is on every cell a little system for produce proteins and also enzime.
If with BO new enzimes are formated is not forever, but can forever only if you enter in a cycle with feedback and body continue produce the same quantity of enzime itself without stimulation.
At this point I think that BO can function also in man with some conditions:

1) You body must have good environment in which BO must function, so temperature is critical but is not the only requirement, I do not know if there is somethings can create better environment (for example also pH is very important and maybe also mind is important, pituitariy gland is near brain, at base).

2) After some time must activate cycle feedback and your body must continue produce enzime also without BO, but is something that must be triggered, and I not know what is the cause, if exist (for this point must before function point 1).

In any case can BO be useful if is not possible take pueraria mirifica.
Maybe can be also perform a reserch about this and try understand what are the influence factors.
Try report alimentation, familiar characteristics, and all can be useful for try understand what is can help BO to function.
Thank for attenction to all.

[Happyme]

Thanks for the research John123.
I leaned a lot from your links, an will be very interested in other comments
Bobbi

[Grew_Some]

Hi John123,

I have been trying out the BO now for a little over 4 months and have seen some results. Mainly hair regrowth and sensitive nipples but some breast growth as well, so I'm convinced something is going on. According to others on this site BO seems to be pretty 'hit and miss', works better for some than others. I actually decided on BO after reading through the reviews on Amazon where it seemed that most of the positive reviews were from men and more negative reviews from women.

Your last article looks like it could have some interesting implications, maybe some peripheral estrogen being generated by taking BO. I don't take too much stock in your third link, since they are just pushing their product, of course they are going to say it works. There is also a possibility that there could be estrogen generated by the testes themselves, someone here was having some success just by warming them. According to this link http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notroc...to-minnie/ the testes could be converted to produce estrogen, but they have only proven this in mice.

As far as PM goes, it's a phytoestrogen, and apparently a fairly strong one, so it's pretty much sure to work like estrogen.

Anyway, thanks for the links, gives us some more things to think about.

[John123]

Hi,
thank you bery much for the reply, is interesting, as ever. :-)
The problem is that biological systems are complex and al study start in vitro and then in animals, al last in womens and often not in mens.
All the study are for womens, and the experimentation is only for womans, so for mens exist only some productors that try send some product to transgender and discussion in forum about personal experiences.
This is the actual situation, so is hard for transgender have some reliable scientifical information.
We can try search some scientific article on some arguments, like BO or others.
For example direct precursor of progesterone in wild yam is not use as precursor in body, but only in laboratory, so today bioidentical progesterone is extract from wild yam and modify in laboratory, without modification wild yam can not function.
The commercial info are useful because also is not ever all true, the base is from some scientifical study, so read ever also commercial info.
I think that can be possible do something big about transgender, I have idea about create association that can collect money for reserch about help transgender (like Teleton), with test on mens and for mens that would be transgender.
If someone would help about this we can create something big in future.
Write about the idea and give advice and also if someone would help for this we can try start the creation of organisation.
Thank you for attention.

[dcdee]

These are very helpful and helps me put pieces of my puzzle together

[John123]

I'm happy that my post is useful, the knowledge is power, the power to understand themselves and own body.
Boobs in a man is not natural, but maybe grow boobs can help understand themselves and the reason that have guide you to desire boobs.
Boobs is reversible in a man, lost fertility less, but with NBE programs is unocommon lost fertility without reversibility, but in any case warning.
I not have children and maybe I will never have one, but I would try preserve my fertility.
Desire boobs in a man can be a compensatory behavior, but the more important is that is a voyage for understand themselves in deep.

[AlexisRene]

Apparently Transfemme & Bountiful Breast are the same thing?

"I have also noticed a loss in weight and some muscle, and now my shoulders are less broad now. more of like a woman’s figure. well not too long ago I was getting worried why my clothing was not fitting anymore everything was like different, so I called BountifulBreast and talked to the very nice Jules and asked her why?"

http://www.transfemme.com/testimonials/#trishia

Was always curious what differences were between say Swansons Raw Ovarian Glandular & either of the two of above? Aside from the insane cost difference. Proprietary blend?

[AbiDrew85]

Was always curious what differences were between say Swansons Raw Ovarian Glandular & either of the two of above? Aside from the insane cost difference. Proprietary blend?

Swanson's BO is ONLY BO. BB/Transfemme is BO+Pituitary+some other stuff they purport helps absorption.

Swanson's BO is only 250mg BO per pill, BB/Transfemme contains at least 400mg and is possibly over 500mg per pill, depending how much of the other ingredients (which there is some debate over and no official numbers).

Good rule of thumb when using Swanson's BO instead of BB/Transfemme is take double the BO and also take their pituitary product. It still costs less, but not as much less as you'd originally think.

---------

As to the OP. I honestly didn't follow your links, but I could easily produce links that say the exact opposite. Or links that have yet a third opinion. Or so on. Seriously. BO is one of if not the least understood NBE product that has actually had results. And it has had results for people who started out anatomically male. No, they don't suddenly grow ovaries and a uterus, or even over time, but they do fill out their hips and butt, grow breasts, etc. One of the former members of this forum, (Cheryl I think her name was?) had insane results from ONLY a BO product, IIRC she used another product called Ultrabreast which is no longer available. She ended up completely losing all male function, grew to like DD or bigger, and had a very definite female shape by the time she left us.

There is NO legitimate research on why or how BO does what it does. We just know from experience that it often does, but not always, work for either natal females or MtF. In fact, from experience, we know it actually tends to work on MtF more often, and more strongly, than on natal females. But we do not understand how or why. Not really. We have our guesses, but there have been no legitimate studies.

[AlexisRene]

Am thinking iodine sourced via kelp is in TF/BB. Checked my multi vitamin this morning & it has 100% daily requirement of the same source. Finally something else I do not have to purchase or research.

On a side note. If TF/BB has 400mg per capsule & their rec dose per day @ 8 capsules = 3200mg. That is just shy of 13 of Swansons @ 250mg per capsule.
Then add the Pituitary Glandular, kelp, msm etc. I understand it is still much more cost effective going that route. It is just the mental aspect for me of taking that much of anything.
If the aspirin bottle recommends 1 tab for a headache, that what I take. Though have known those that take 5/6+ of the same.

I got a lot of learning to do...