[Lotus]

I think we have an answer, Green Tea Extract- GTE inhibits prostate cancer by reducing the cell growth and blocks the androgen receptor. Green tea extract need to be @ 60-80% in EGCG polyphenols though. The dosage needs to be determined, recommend use is 2-3 capsules per day, I'm thinking it's slightly more (4-5?) from what this study says. Would this elimante the need for other anti-androgens?, possibly. Soooo- I see a good plan as follows: (though, it's up to you, it won't hurt my feelings).

Quick question Lotus...

For the number of capsules, does the mg matter or just the % polyphenols?

For instance the link posted for Swanson's says they are 60%, 500 mg whereas the eBay vendor that was posted states their's are 95%, 4500 mg of Green Tea Extract from 150 mg of a concentrated 45:1 extract with 142.5 mg Polyphenols.

Both, quality being a priority (tea leaves vs stems/loose flake/garbage etc) seek out the best tea and distributor possible when consuming by the cup. The polyphenols (EGCG) @ or above 80% is what I would shoot for. In pill form it shouldn't be so different. Green tea has a long half life (9hrs), 4 cups is about my limit, unless I went decaf, and I did see life extension had a decaf brand @98% EGCG.

[Lotus]

If one is already taking dutasteride, is there a reason to take GTE?

The polyphenols (EGCG) in green tea absolutely inhibit DHT, (and in pharma strength I might add). Polyphenols inhibit 5 alpha reductase type 1. Dutaseride inhibits type 1 & 2 @ about 93%, effective but carries risk. Red clover, genistien (others too) inhibit type 2 (5 ar).

Green tea protects the prostate and also lowers PSA levels too, which is why I'd still take it.

[spanky (aka Lola)]

Thanks Lotus.

From what I have read, the side effects of dutasteride are possible reduced libido, breast growth and impotence. It sounds like these side effects are pretty much the same as might apply to GTE.

I have read that another side effect sometimes postulated for dutasteride is that, while reducing the risk of most prostate cancers, it may correlate to a more aggressive form of prostate cancer later on. This correlation has been disputed by some researchers.

Are there other side effects I am not aware of? I would love to know if there are.

[Lotus]

Thanks Lotus.

From what I have read, the side effects of dutasteride are possible reduced libido, breast growth and impotence. It sounds like these side effects are pretty much the same as might apply to GTE.

I have read that another side effect sometimes postulated for dutasteride is that, while reducing the risk of most prostate cancers, it may correlate to a more aggressive form of prostate cancer later on. This correlation has been disputed by some researchers.

Are there other side effects I am not aware of? I would love to know if there are.

Hi spanky, happyme and crew.

Reduced sperm (quite possibly permanently). Dustasteride inhibits two types of 5 alpha reductase (type I & II), it'll tank total and free T. It looks like it has a surge (of T) in the first 30-45 days, most likely from negative feedback of lutenizing hormone. This surge (or flare as they say) also happens to a lesser extent when starting PM, and from my experience BO did the same thing at first. Lowered T can have a strong impact on libido, lowered free T will impact penis size.

Type I is predominate in the liver
Type II is predominant in the prostate, seminal vesicles, epididymes, hair follicles, and liver.

Two new adrenal 5 ar's have been discovered, though negligible. SRS would make then more apparent though.

Long term?, imo it's a top tier anti-androgen. I wouldn't use it just for NBE unless, you seek the kinda of results as in hrt. My experience with dutasteride was approximately 12 months.

Dutasteride: A Review of Current Data on a Novel Dual Inhibitor of 5 Reductase
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles...4_0203.pdf

Dutasteride: How Does It Work?
DHT synthesis is catalyzed intracellularly by 5 reductase types 1 and 2 enzymes. Dutasteride is the first dual inhibitor of both 5 reductase isoenzymes. This leads to near-complete suppression of serum DHT—more than 90%, compared with the 70% seen with finasteride. Type 2 5 reductase is the predominant isoform in normal prostate and in BPH tissues. Type 1 5 reductase is present in BPH tissue in lower quantities, but it predominates in prostate cancer cell lines and seems to be over-expressed in some prostate cancers. Theoretically, the greater suppression of DHT arising from the dual 5 -reductase inhibition could result in greater efficacy than is observed in selective type 2 inhibition, and this dual inhibition could prevent type 1–mediated synthesis of DHT.

[The First Aria]

Hmmmm, could be why my 2 boys are shrinking?? And could it possibly account for this late growth spurt of mine in the last 2 months?

I know that spiro has somewhat of a same effect but it's weird because I have been using both since last July, I think??

[AbiDrew85]

Dustasteride inhibits two types of 5 alpha reductase (type I & II) , it'll tank total and free T. It looks like it has a surge (of T) in the first 30-45 days, most likely from negative feedback of lutenizing hormone.

There are currently three known types of 5AR. And no, dut by itself should have negligent effects on total and free T and massive effects on DHT. That's why they always pair it with either spiro in the states or cypro in most of Europe. Because spiro and cypro effect total and free T, but not 5AR, while dut effects 5AR but not total and free T, only DHT due to blocking two of the three known types of 5AR. Currently known 5AR inhibitors block only 1 or 2 of the three known types of 5AR. Dutasteride blocks types 1 & 2, finasteride only blocks type 1, some other one I can't remember the name of blocks 2 & 3, no synthetics block only 3. Plants are all over the place, some block only 1, 2, or 3, some block 1 & 2, some 2 & 3, none seem to block all 3 types. From what they've been able to find, however, type 3 is very low utilization anyways and doesn't take over if 1 & 2 are blocked, therefore blocking just 1 & 2 blocks generally 80-90+% DHT. Which is considered good enough. Blocking just type 1 generally gets ~50% reduction in DHT, while blocking just type 2 gets around ~40%, only if you could block all three could you achieve 100% no DHT. However, no matter how much DHT you block, free and total T will either remain unchanged or may even go up depending on if your body increases aromatization to compensate or not. Which is why 5AR blockers are always paired with T blockers for MtF HRT. When 5AR blockers are being used for things like BPH, prostate cancer, or hair loss, in men, it's usually paired with an aromatase blocker just in case the patients body decides to compensate through aromatization. Only in cis women are they not generally paired with anything at all, since generally it WILL improve aromatization, and that's just fine for them.

[spanky (aka Lola)]

Wow - Thanks Lotus and Abi. That is very, very helpful information. Your comments have made the DHT/5ar aspects much clearer to me.

I started dutasteride (Avodart, but since moved to generic) for three intended effects, all of which are closely connected: prostate concerns, breast growth and feminization potential, and prevention/reduction of hair loss. I can only say that it seems to have helped with the first, and may have helped with the second and third.

For aromatization, thus far I have stuck with WP extract but have just ordered some GTE, based on what I have learned from this thread. It is not without some fear and trepidation that I will start GTE, realizing it might just quash my libibo and potency. At the same time, I feel a strong inclination to take it all further.

"As I careen down the slippery slope, I find myself pausing to wax my runners. . . ."

[AbiDrew85]

Wow - Thanks Lotus and Abi. That is very, very helpful information. Your comments have made the DHT/5ar aspects much clearer to me.

I started dutasteride (Avodart, but since moved to generic) for three intended effects, all of which are closely connected: prostate concerns, breast growth and feminization potential, and prevention/reduction of hair loss. I can only say that it seems to have helped with the first, and may have helped with the second and third.

For aromatization, thus far I have stuck with WP extract but have just ordered some GTE, based on what I have learned from this thread. It is not without some fear and trepidation that I will start GTE, realizing it might just quash my libibo and potency. At the same time, I feel a strong inclination to take it all further.

"As I careen down the slippery slope, I find myself pausing to wax my runners. . . ."

LOL at the quote, though I have NO idea what you're quoting, the phrase itself is quite funny. And perhaps appropriate. Just so you do realize what you're doing and are okay with the potential consequences. GTE can be some very powerful stuff from what I've been reading about it recently. Especially paired with dutasteride it ought to have some pretty interesting effect.

[spanky (aka Lola)]

LOL at the quote, though I have NO idea what you're quoting, the phrase itself is quite funny. And perhaps appropriate. Just so you do realize what you're doing and are okay with the potential consequences. GTE can be some very powerful stuff from what I've been reading about it recently. Especially paired with dutasteride it ought to have some pretty interesting effect.

The quote is autobiographical.

One other query -- would the effects be permanent? I am not sure the answer will change my plans at all, but it would be good to know.

[The First Aria]

And also, Abi. In your opinion, what would the effects be?? I might be keen on trying it.