[Male2Female]

Pueraria Mirifica and Estradiol together , is this a problem ?

I would be taking my doses of each at different times though

[Dianna1395]

Hi, Male2Female.
I'll let the heavy-hitters give you detail but general consensus seems to be, you'll likely be overdoing it and clog your estrogen receptors.
I'd wager part of why woman has a cycle, is to use progesterone to unlock the estrogen receptors. Then, there's a new pulse of estrogen to bind... And repeat, once a month for about 30 years. ;-)

Also, you do NOT want to go over about 4 mg for estrogens, as it adds to clotting. (E.G., many mammals eat the placenta after giving birth - the estrogen his the liver, the liver produces clotting factors, the blood flow from birthing is staunched, the mother survives.)
8 mg/day will leave you vulnerable to DVT, Deep Vein thrombosis, or clots in the legs. In the legs, not so bad; they can break free and migrate to the brain (stroke) or heart (heart attack.)

Abi Drew was a REAL geek about these things. You should look up her thread (in her signature) - try page 30, I think it was, where she has the chart of a female cycle. Very informative, and if you want to cycle, it'll give you a basis of working things out.

And LISTEN, for GOD'S SAKES!
I KNOW you wan to develop "yesterday." We all do! "Happiness doesn't come from having what you want, but wanting what you have." Issue is, dealing with a dysmorphia, they become the same thing - and you want to be validated by the boys at your age, no doubt. (doesn't mean sex, but there's a validation in who you are when they look and smile, ya know? And when the girls look and give you the stink-eye because you're prettier.)
Don't be a pretty corpse!
Take the time. They have an advantage, but they hate themselves: too tall, too skinny, big feet, big boobs, no boobs, no hips, etc, etc, etc! You'll catch up if you take it slow. You might not if you try to overdo!

-Dianna

[Male2Female]

Hi, Male2Female.
I'll let the heavy-hitters give you detail but general consensus seems to be, you'll likely be overdoing it and clog your estrogen receptors.
I'd wager part of why woman has a cycle, is to use progesterone to unlock the estrogen receptors. Then, there's a new pulse of estrogen to bind... And repeat, once a month for about 30 years. ;-)

Also, you do NOT want to go over about 4 mg for estrogens, as it adds to clotting. (E.G., many mammals eat the placenta after giving birth - the estrogen his the liver, the liver produces clotting factors, the blood flow from birthing is staunched, the mother survives.)
8 mg/day will leave you vulnerable to DVT, Deep Vein thrombosis, or clots in the legs. In the legs, not so bad; they can break free and migrate to the brain (stroke) or heart (heart attack.)

Abi Drew was a REAL geek about these things. You should look up her thread (in her signature) - try page 30, I think it was, where she has the chart of a female cycle. Very informative, and if you want to cycle, it'll give you a basis of working things out.

And LISTEN, for GOD'S SAKES!
I KNOW you wan to develop "yesterday." We all do! "Happiness doesn't come from having what you want, but wanting what you have." Issue is, dealing with a dysmorphia, they become the same thing - and you want to be validated by the boys at your age, no doubt. (doesn't mean sex, but there's a validation in who you are when they look and smile, ya know? And when the girls look and give you the stink-eye because you're prettier.)
Don't be a pretty corpse!
Take the time. They have an advantage, but they hate themselves: too tall, too skinny, big feet, big boobs, no boobs, no hips, etc, etc, etc! You'll catch up if you take it slow. You might not if you try to overdo!

-Dianna

Hi Dianna ,

thank you for your detailed reply , the provided information is interesting to project on my situation .

Absolutely true that I like to be validated by the boys and by the girls at my age . You see pretty girls everywhere in publicity spots and you want to be as pretty as them you know ?

I was considering giving progesterone acetate a try since it's a potent anti-androgen but was a bit shocked when I read that it's used to castrate pedophiles so I left it at that .

Do you think I could massage my breasts and butts , hips with Pueraria Mirifica cream ( transdermal ) instead of oral ? Could that interfere with mammary receptors of estrogen as well?

Are you on a course of pharmaceutical estrogen too ?

I took my estrogen use down from 4 mg to 2 mg and am feeling myself a lot better . I upped my Spironolactone dose from 75 mg to 125 mg which seams potent enough to suppress all testosterone produced by my genitalia .

Thanks to have taken the time to reply to this thread , it was appreciated



Elissa

[CalmlyAndrogynous]

...

I was considering giving progesterone acetate a try since it's a potent anti-androgen but was a bit shocked when I read that it's used to castrate pedophiles so I left it at that .

...

Elissa

I'm on cyproterone acetate (100mg). My endo prescribed as she sees it as the most effective anti-androgen. Like most endos, she doesn't see progesterone as necessary. No morning wood and some loss of erectile function if that is important to you. For treating sexual deviancy issues, I believe they use 300mg doses.

You can also use estrogen patches instead of pills. According to my endo, you are less likely to have clots and other side effects associated with pills.

Calmly

PS. oh, and also any of the 17 beta estradiol treatments like pills or patches can be monitored and you can measure the levels. PM does not show up in blood tests.

[-Tasha-]

As Dianna mentioned taking both will clog your estrogen receptors in another way.

Hormones work as a lock and key mechanism where the hormones are the key and the receptor sites are the locks.

Both Estradiol and Miroestrol will fit in the lock, but have you had a key where it takes a bit of wiggling to get the lock to turn? PM is like that. It is the most potent phytoestrogen we know of but Estradiol fits in that lock perfectly and turns smoothly every time.

Taking them both together will cause Miroestrol (or the other estrogens in PM) to occupy the receptor sites, preventing your perfect key from opening the lock.

[Lenneth]

As Dianna mentioned taking both will clog your estrogen receptors in another way.

Hormones work as a lock and key mechanism where the hormones are the key and the receptor sites are the locks.

Both Estradiol and Miroestrol will fit in the lock, but have you had a key where it takes a bit of wiggling to get the lock to turn? PM is like that. It is the most potent phytoestrogen we know of but Estradiol fits in that lock perfectly and turns smoothly every time.

Taking them both together will cause Miroestrol (or the other estrogens in PM) to occupy the receptor sites, preventing your perfect key from opening the lock.

if you just take it in normal GG dose wouldn't it just complement the synthetics?

[Lotus]

Estradiol binds slighty stronger than PM imo, even then, E2 doesn't exclusively bind to ER-a (boob growth receptors). PM preferentially binds to ER-b, which down regulates ER-a and its proliferative effects (breast cancer). I suppose you could take PM with E2 to help protect against cancer, I think you'd being slowing growth though. Loading up on anti-inflammatories and anti-oxidatants would help protect against cancers.


Red clover is actually stronger at estrogen receptors alpha (ER-a) over PM & E2.

Btw,

Estrogen, 17-beta-estradiol binds to both the ER alpha and ER beta receptors but not to androgen, progestin, or thyroiditis receptors. Each receptor version may turn on and off different responses in different cells in different parts of the body. For instance, ER alpha, promotes tissue growth and is found in greater amounts in the uterus, pituitary gland, and epididymis (the male sperm storing structure). ER alpha stimulates certain breast cancer cells to grow in response to estrogen hormones. The other version, ER beta, inhibits growth (possibly suppressing cancer) and prevails in the ovary and prostate. It can act like a dimmer switch for ER alpha, turning down its growth-stimulating effect.


Binding produces two distinct signaling routines: either slower via gene expression (hours to days) or very rapidly via molecular exchanges, or cascades (seconds to minutes). In both cases, the cell responds to the signals by manipulating proteins or building new ones. The affected workhorse proteins carry out specialized functions, such as controlling cell processes, building cells and tissues, or carting messages elsewhere within the cell or around the body.

The information for miroestrol is here https://www.thieme-connect.com/products/...32-1328187

I misread it, and thought it caused mammary cell multiplication=growth. They believe it to activate ER-alpha, and to possibly increase mammary growth on normal cells, based on its results on a test-tube of bad cells. It could promote growth of mammary cells whether they are healthy tissue or not. So for now, its just a lead, to find this out.

A better herb would encourage healthy breast tissue and stop malignant tissue, such as fenugreek, asparagus or hops.

Rhubarb tops the list, crazy!!

[Marcy]

As Dianna mentioned taking both will clog your estrogen receptors in another way.

Hormones work as a lock and key mechanism where the hormones are the key and the receptor sites are the locks.

Both Estradiol and Miroestrol will fit in the lock, but have you had a key where it takes a bit of wiggling to get the lock to turn? PM is like that. It is the most potent phytoestrogen we know of but Estradiol fits in that lock perfectly and turns smoothly every time.

Taking them both together will cause Miroestrol (or the other estrogens in PM) to occupy the receptor sites, preventing your perfect key from opening the lock.

This is a beautiful metaphor of the smoothly turning key and lock! I'm strongly considering going the synthetic route for safety and this helps me think about it in a new light.. I offer you the most humble thanks for sharing this post. You never know when or what will effect people but you nailed it for me!