[Lotus]

If I remember correctly you have pretty much used the Ainterol brand correct?
TBH, sometimes I think their potency varies bottle to bottle.....or maybe just me.

Lol, thanks. Yes, I used ainterol. Sammie would say the same thing about the potency.

I for one, would just like to know which is the most potent, consistent brand of manufacturer out there.... I am not inclined to follow every high brow scientific study put out by Paul, John, Ringo etc. Just site an opinion and point to supporting docs if there is any.

Just like other unregulated things out there... Too many 3rd party brands that could cut product with God knows what!

My frickin head is swimming! ! !

That's the whole point isn't it?, not knowing who offers the best (most potent) product. Personally, I used ainterol, and I did get growth from it, but I also used a half dozen other Phytoestrogens, PC, massage, etc. I went through the similar questions about whether PM was working as stated (consistency). I know of at least a dozen (if not more) that started with PM, became disenfranchised with it, and switched to BO (no help there) and then in frustration, went to E2. Currently, many BN members aren't seeing results...........why is that?. I'm not throwing PM under the bus, it works if it's authentic, and to verify it, a small volume (typically microliters) is needed for HPLC.

I hate to say, but it does seem possible that little to no miroesrol in PM is out there, based on the difficulty obtaining a current certificate of analysis of Miroestrol. Again, puerarin is not Miroestrol. I would think (expect) you should be able to see at least 2 cups of growth if things are done properly.

For example, immediately after a rain, the level of miroestrol/deoxymiroestrol drops significantly. The problem of substitution (mislabeling) is being addressed by the Ministry of Public Health (2002) in Thailand because the use of P. mirifica as an over-the-counter food supplement, regulated by the Thai FDA, involves more than 20 companies selling the product within Thailand.

[missboobshirt]

I didn't get growth on ainterol either-- I always believed that it is what our bodies need verses what works for other people, don't you think? Some people might get great growth on PM who are sensitive to estrogen changes or might lack E-- so by adding more E their body changes-- where as others might be lacking something else. I think the key is listening to our bodies and seeing what it needs to nourish it.

IE. one flower may need sunlight, another may need water in order to grow

How goes your growth Lotus? I wanna see some Lotus update piccies!!!!!!!!!

[Lotus]

I didn't get growth on ainterol either-- I always believed that it is what our bodies need verses what works for other people, don't you think?. Some people might get great growth on PM who are sensitive to estrogen changes or might lack E-- so by adding more E their body changes-- where as others might be lacking something else. I think the key is listening to our bodies and seeing what it needs to nourish it.

Agreed, (great point),

...... if you have elevated levels of E to begin with, you'll be compounding the issue, hormones should be in balance (normal limits) for optimal changes.

How goes your growth Lotus? I wanna see some Lotus update piccies!!!!!!!!!

Lol ok, maybe an inch (or close to it) in the last 5-6 months, I'll post an update early next month after my 3 month check-up (labs too).

Thanks missB, always love to hear from yah.

[Lotus]

My God Lotus, the information you come up with never ceases to amaze me.

Well have I got something new to tell you about, lmao. .......maybe not new becuse we've discussed this a few times already, do you remember " Second Messengers? ".

To me, second messengers are an aromatase for cell biosynthesis. In other words, first messengers are about cell diffusion, while second messengers boost the intercellular action for DNA syntheses (or cell reaction).

Forskolin is supplement example of a second messenger. Calcium is a second messenger too, and underestimated for NBE. Btw, boosting vitamin D and calcium upregulates ovarian aromatase.

Second messengers are intracellular signaling molecules released by the cell to trigger physiological changes such as proliferation, differentiation, migration, survival, and apoptosis. Secondary messengers are therefore one of the initiating components of intracellular signal transduction cascades. Examples of second messenger molecules include cyclic AMP, cyclic GMP, inositol trisphosphate, diacylglycerol, and calcium. The cell releases second messenger molecules in response to exposure to extracellular signaling molecules—the first messengers. First messengers are extracellular factors, often hormones or neurotransmitters, such as epinephrine, growth hormone, and serotonin. Because peptide hormones and neurotransmitters typically are biochemically hydrophilic molecules, these first messengers may not physically cross the phospholipid bilayer cell membrane to initiate changes within the cell directly—unlike steroid hormones, which usually do. This functional limitation necessitates the cell to devise signal transduction mechanisms to transduce first messenger into second messengers, so that the extracellular signal may be propagated intracellularly. An important feature of the second messenger signaling system is that second messengers may be coupled downstream to multi-cyclic kinase cascades to greatly amplify the strength of the original first messenger signal.[1][2] For example, Ras.GTP signals link with the Mitogen Activated Protein Kinase (MAPK) cascade to amplify the allosteric activation of proliferative transcription factors such as Myc and CREB. (Wiki) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_messenger_system

Interesting in that calcium supplementation is suggested when taking PM, I wonder if they new that calcium improves cell biosynthesis, or was it from PM lowering the parathyroid?, hmmmm.

Anyways, The daily recommended is 1000 mg to 1200 mg, although topping out at 2500 mg, certain restrictions (interactions) need to be observed though, (check with your doctor) e.g calcium channel blockers. Carbs increase the absorption of calcium while coffee decreases it (MF'er)

Here is some excellent info on second messengers:

Second Messenger
http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultrane...ml#IP3_DAG

Bottom line, here's one example of thinking inside the box (the cell) lol makes sense. Meaning looking at cell diffusion and how boosting the calcium signal (via calcium ion channels) improves the DNA synthesis of NBE/Hrt, just my opinion on that part though.

Calcium
http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/calcium

[Lotus]

If you've ever heard of a process called immunostimulating (inducing activity or activation) I have another crazy idea about reducing DHT (low cost lol).

It's water........yup, by increasing water uptake it's speeds the urinary elimination of DHT. My thinking though is all about timing, e.g. Drink 2 cups min. of water before taking NBE/Hrt (after urinary excretion.....pee). Btw, science explains this process in the testes.


Any thoughts?.

[Lotus]

If you've ever heard of a process called immunostimulating (inducing activity or activation) I have another crazy idea about reducing DHT (low cost lol).

It's water........yup, by increasing water uptake it's speeds the urinary elimination of DHT. My thinking though is all about timing, e.g. Drink 2 cups min. of water before taking NBE/Hrt (after urinary excretion.....pee). Btw, science explains this process in the testes.


Any thoughts?.

To carry this further, I think diuretics are a good example of this scenario, e.g. spiro (short for spirolactone) which makes you pee a lot.......aka-a diuretic. And as we know, spiro partially blocks androgens, though I also believe it promotes CYP19 (aromatase). So, what's a cheap DIY diuretic????...........water.

[pom19]

If you've ever heard of a process called immunostimulating (inducing activity or activation) I have another crazy idea about reducing DHT (low cost lol).

It's water........yup, by increasing water uptake it's speeds the urinary elimination of DHT. My thinking though is all about timing, e.g. Drink 2 cups min. of water before taking NBE/Hrt (after urinary excretion.....pee). Btw, science explains this process in the testes.


Any thoughts?.

To carry this further, I think diuretics are a good example of this scenario, e.g. spiro (short for spirolactone) which makes you pee a lot.......aka-a diuretic. And as we know, spiro partially blocks androgens, though I also believe it promotes CYP19 (aromatase). So, what's a cheap DIY diuretic????...........water.

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Interesting Lotus. Thanks

[Lotus]

Aloha Pom, ‘A‘ole pilikia

[pom19]

Aloha Pom, ‘A‘ole pilikia

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Mahalo-

[Eloise]

Yeah for water--the magic boobie juice. It would make sense to help decrease the amount of toxins.