[Dianna1395]

First, I wanted to start with pictures, then goals and a timeline for changes, and last, the actual meds / herbs. I'm warning you ahead of time that I'm essentially nekkid and well, fat and ugly. :-( Have eye bleach handy.

So, I'm currently 230#, 34% body fat. The photos show the body I'm trying to train and then feminize.
Problem is, I seem like I'm looking more male.

Measurements are:
Neck: 16"
Upper arm: 14"
forearm: 12"
Overbreast: 46"
Breasts: 47" (Now I know where the weight loss came from)
Chest (rib cage, underbust): 44"
Waist:
Woman, 3" above navel: 49"
Man, at navel: 46"
Hips: 47"
Thigh: 22.5"
Calf: 16.5"

Height: 5' 8.75" or so. (Probably more like 5'8".)

Timeline/plans:
Low dose Pharma with some PM. I want to avoid saturation, naturally, but if I'm down at 1 mg/day, plus 1,000 mg/day oral PM, I'd likely be OK, right? Do divided doses, maybe?

For an AA, I'm thinking SP, Spearmint tea, but I need more - likely Spiro. 100 mg/day would be normal, I think.

figure if I keep up the ketogenic diet, what are the odds of reaching a "human" appearance? Or a feminine one...? And in what time frame? A year, fine, but two, three, that's a little depressing...

Any suggestions?
Going shopping for a skirt for normal weekend wear tomorrow... Not telling the woman. So might be REAL fun for the next week...

-Dianna

[AbiDrew85]

Well, you're actually not as morbidly obese as I am right now for your shape. Sadly, you are starting from a much more masculine shape.

Due to using a ketogenic diet, you should make good progress on the weight loss, and since you're only overweight bordering on obese, a normal male appearance, or at most androgynous, should be well within reach in a year I think. Especially if you use can get and use spiro.

You should be able to start looking more feminine in a couple years, though a higher dose would help with that, unless you have some particular reason to keep it low dose on the feminine hormones whilst at the same time being willing to consider a dose of spiro that may chemically castrate you anyways.

[elainecd]

May I ask in your younger years 17~20 what was your weight?
Add 20 lbs to it as a reasonable goal. We'll never get back to those lean years but we can get close.

Oh it will take some dieting as well, check out the "three day diet" aka "military Diet".
Worked well for me. Get rid of soft drinks, anything with high fructose corn syrup.
The NBE can't do it alone.
Good Luck!

[Dianna1395]

Ok, busy weekend (boring stuff), but trying to answer here...

So, Elaine first,
I spent most of my teen years at about 175. Probably like 15-17, say.
Around 18, I was up to 190 or so.
Went to college, lost some weight - the Freshman 15, or whatever? Went in reverse for me. Came back home 160.
That lasted about a year and a half, but then I changed colleges and was living at home. I went up from about 20 years to 25, slowly gaining weight - up to 240. Said F*CK THIS! and joined a gym - I'd seen myself in the mirror. (As an aside, something I hadn't noticed until reading about it in "My Ladybird Story," fiction story on Amazon. Main character there also avoided the mirror; I do, too. And when I must look, like trimming hair or shaving? I don't like who is looking back. It's me, but not "ME.")

Anyway - from 25 - 27, I worked on burning fat & losing weight. I went from 240+/-, probably about 40% body fat, to 180, about 20% BF. Maintained that (sort of) for about 4 years. Then started creeping up again. Now back to 235 (down from 243) and tinkering with the scale/body fat meter can change my body fat %. So I'm probably about 32% body fat right now. With a tendency to Dwarven build, as you can probably tell. (VERY GOOD IN A SPRINT... [puff, puff] Dwarves are.... [puff, puff, gasp]) ;-)

I don't easily gain, in terms of "look at food, gain weight." Also, Irish-Italian background indicates that I can actually tolerate carbs (grains) OK. Not perhaps the BEST food, but I don't have the allergies or the inability to digest and use carbs from grains.

As to avoiding the HFCS, aside from soda, I was doing that most of my life, by accident. But I could go through a 6-pack some days (soda). So... Made up for the avoidance with one high-quantity vice. I've dropped that, and the Bourbon Iced Teas, for the last month. I did try a gin-based martini, I had a mouthful and dumped it. Just CANNOT STAND gin... ;-)

Yesterday I was bad and had a Kit-Kat bar. :-P First time in weeks. (for almost any candy; had Starbucks twice last week, though.)
So getting back on the official diet now... Sunday was shopping day (but didn't make it to Salvation Army for skirts.)




Abi,
I've seen pics of you here, "morbidly obese" doesn't describe you. (Technically, it does me, but read on...)
We have more muscle, and usually quite a higher BMI, than women. And despite our minds, we need to go with the genetics for this.
Flame and Lotus look good; we need to think more along the lines of Cheryl (Cheryl's Breast Talk forum). We're bigger, end of story. I look around, and the porky girls are still WAY smaller than we are. (Makes me envy Lotus and Flame even more... Not just in proportion, and a feminine shape, but also visibly more delicate than even some women... Insert green smiley here.)

So, BMI... toss it. Seriously, it's a basic ratio, and you'll NEVER get close to the female range. Never. You'll have bigger, denser bones, and that'll skew the measurements. You'll do better looking at body fat, and locations of body fat, than worrying about your "weight." Especially now without hormones. I'd suggest ketogenic diet for you too, if you can manage it. If not, look to reduce carbs, and go for filling but cheap stuff, while staying active. Salad (ice berg lettuce) and apples, for instance. I lost weight while eating chicken chili (beans are high carbs) and ramen noodles (all we could afford) with an apple, and a small supper of red meat, every day... But I was actively lifting things (attractive woman... ) during the day. Eating was limited, activity went up, but it was not heavy exercise. I lost weight... But pointwise, Weightwatchers? Probably dietary disaster. (Ramen is like 11 points, I understand.)

We want the Elfen appearance if possible. Male genetics and hormones make for an apple appearance. Belly fat is first stored. Then back, then arms and legs, working outwards.
Losing weight follows the same pattern, usually (not for me, I'm losing from the face and the boobs and the butt, not much from the belly. )

Looked my original measurements:
01-01-2015

Key measures:
Neck: 15.5"
Above breasts: 46"
Nipple line: 49"
Underbreast: 44"
Waist: 40" (Male waist measure)
Hips: 46"
thighs: 24"
Calf: 16.5"

Weight: 233.0
Body Fat %: 37.5%

Height: 5' 9"

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

So, I'm currently 230#, 34% body fat. The photos show the body I'm trying to train and then feminize.
Problem is, I seem like I'm looking more male.

Measurements are:
Neck: 16"
Upper arm: 14"
forearm: 12"
Overbreast: 46"
Breasts: 47" (Now I know where the weight loss came from)
Chest (rib cage, underbust): 44"
Waist:
Woman, 3" above navel: 49"
Man, at navel: 46"
Hips: 47"
Thigh: 22.5"
Calf: 16.5"

Height: 5' 8.75" or so. (Probably more like 5'8".)
+++++++

Yeah - I'm not going to win a beauty contest, EVER. Not with those ribs... :-P

As to why I'm looking to limit the estrogen... Costs, and the woman. I've been putting "the talk" off for years already. No, not THAT talk, the OTHER one. She knew I was TG before she moved in... But now there's talk of her daughter returning to live with us. Not OUR daughter, HER daughter. I'm not sure I can manage this bullshit. Not again. And I can't just spring it on her, either. I could solve it with a hammer, but that just doesn't feel right...

I'm not wildly fond of being infertile, either. One of the things I said in the past is, I'm not looking for children. Yet I also feel I'm missing something by not reproducing. But it's kind of hard when the funds are always gone... Can't save, then you can't move out. And she's about to get fired from her latest job, I think. She thinks, too. She won't tell me what she did, but she's so abrasive, the probable cause was a fight with a nurse... The nurse is a bitch, but so is she. Same thing happened with my sister a decade back... (We don't talk any more.)

Look back over your failed relationships. Realize there is only one constant among them all... Yeah, she hates when I mention that. But since we're talking about setting her up with a counselor anyway? Can't hurt to try and get her back on track. At least confirm you must not have a personality of barbwire and broken glass, where each interaction leaves a person feeling like they survived Hellraiser...
A mutual friend suggested she should look into SSDI. Social Security Disability Insurance. Get declared disabled, so you don't have NO income. (and at 54 now... Her odds of getting hired suck anyway.)

Sorry I'm rambling, it's just unbelievable to me that people are so WILLFULLY BLIND. since we're now talking about a new dog...? Yeah, no, not allowing that. I want a dog, too, but no - no more ties that bind.

BTW, low dose is also preferred to let things develop over time. I'd jump to 8 mg/day Progynova, but that's NOT going to solve anything, and could easily make more of a problem.

Just going to keep on for the moment. Working out is helpful, I need to add to my routine ("Computerman" recommendations from T-nation). My mid back is a disaster, and I have more knots than the old sailing ships...

-Dianna

[AbiDrew85]

Abi,
I've seen pics of you here, "morbidly obese" doesn't describe you.

Trust me, you don't know how bad I look right now because I haven't posted anything in years. And I won't. Not until I lose some weight at least. I guess I'm not as brave as you?

If you've seen older pics of me, then you also already have seen that I'm actually sized structurally more like a female anyways. Not at the ultra-feminine end of things, but certainly a lot smaller than most folks with XY chromosomes, a penis, and testicles. One of my older sisters is actually built larger of frame than I am!

[Dianna1395]

Quick follow-up...
Had a good weekend, mostly sleeping late. Made up for a week or two.

Dropping fish oil, I'll see if I'm doing better with my inflammation as a result.

Had a strange Easter dinner with the girlfriend... She asked if I thought I had missed something by not having kids. Not sure where that came from, but - since we'd had about a half-bottle of Shiraz each - I answered her and told her the truth... Yes, I felt I'd missed something.
We talked about it a little, she seems to have come around in some way - but I don't understand her...
We also talked briefly about marriage, as in, she asked at one point if I'd marry her. (Information, not a proposal.) And I told her no. That I thought if I met the right woman, I would've. But she wasn't. Later on, she was encouraging me to live for myself. But she thinks I'm masculine. Because I take pride in being strong.... :-P

I didn't have the heart to tell her I'm looking up Inhouse and Ainterol. Researching subliminals and hypnosis. (For both of us, she just doesn't know what exactly for. I have told her about using them for sleep improvements. Not the rest I'm looking up.)

But she should be getting some counseling soon, and we did talk about getting me some, and paying cash and keeping insurance out of it.

She still thinks I want to be with her. With all the issues we have, how do people consistently ignore what's right in front of them?

Anyway - we'll see what comes of this. She's working late the next several nights, so only limited talk time, really - text messages. Not appropriate for this! :-P

Thursday, maybe we can chat. I'm looking to set up a list of topics and examples to tell her more about what's going on inside my head...

How I want breasts, and at the same time, want hot chicks in my bed. I told her over a decade ago I was a lesbian.... Not sure how she can still be so ... STUCK.

-D