[Sofia Bunny]

Hi, and welcome back!

Well it sounds like things are developing well for you. When I first started it was recommended to me by several members on here to use PC. Reading throughout the forum, everyone was using it differently. I believe twice now Lotus has recommended to me to use PC 2-3 times a week. Unfortunately I archived the conversations since I was running out of room, and I do not remember where I archived them to. I will try and find them, unless someone beats me to it. I think if I remember correctly something about helping with shape development or something like that. I really need to organize my stuff better. So many things to do, so little time.

Well again, welcome back, and best of luck of luck on your journey!

P.S.
It looks like your regiment is somewhat similar to what I am taking, albeit some higher dosages than my own. I am also taking Caffeine Free GTE pills as well as part of my regiment.

[Lotus]

Quite a few studies point out that when E2 and progesterone are introduced simultaneously a growth phase is initiated. In NBE, a potent phytoestrogen with USP progesterone (paraben-free) is such an example. With puffy nipples that tells me you've gotten some growth from a mix of prolactin and phytoestrogens. Inhibition of T (testosterone) via hypothalamus/pituitary axis to the testes is more than likely beneficial (optimal) for breast growth. Alternately, by the negative feedback of the HPA pathway to LH (lutenizing hormone) the signal to make more T is inhibited. Similarly, in females inhibiting LH inhibits androgen production in the ovaries.

Imo, progesterone cream is absolutely essential in the beginning (and throughout) of the program, (within the first 30days), and @ 2-3x week per week (application to breasts). Couple this strategy with the above NBE products mentioned will hopefully all work synergistically.

I've seen introducing MSM, melatonin and E2 at bedtime is of benefit.......,when growth hormones are being produced, (most prominent in the first 2 hours of REM sleep).

[jannet.duff]

Welcome to the forum kit019.

I'll add to the others. I think your overdoing it on the PM, you may want to cut down to at least 4 a day.

[kit019]

Hi, and welcome back!

Well it sounds like things are developing well for you. When I first started it was recommended to me by several members on here to use PC. Reading throughout the forum, everyone was using it differently. I believe twice now Lotus has recommended to me to use PC 2-3 times a week. Unfortunately I archived the conversations since I was running out of room, and I do not remember where I archived them to. I will try and find them, unless someone beats me to it. I think if I remember correctly something about helping with shape development or something like that. I really need to organize my stuff better. So many things to do, so little time.

Well again, welcome back, and best of luck of luck on your journey!

P.S.
It looks like your regiment is somewhat similar to what I am taking, albeit some higher dosages than my own. I am also taking Caffeine Free GTE pills as well as part of my regiment.

Yeah, that's the same thing I observed when reading on PC across the forum. People using it often use it differently, and then some people have different opinions on its use, which is why I chose to not introduce it until I had more information.

Quite a few studies point out that when E2 and progesterone are introduced simultaneously a growth phase is initiated. In NBE, a potent phytoestrogen with USP progesterone (paraben-free) is such an example. With puffy nipples that tells me you've gotten some growth from a mix of prolactin and phytoestrogens. Inhibition of T (testosterone) via hypothalamus/pituitary axis to the testes is more than likely beneficial (optimal) for breast growth. Alternately, by the negative feedback of the HPA pathway to LH (lutenizing hormone) the signal to make more T is inhibited. Similarly, in females inhibiting LH inhibits androgen production in the ovaries.

Imo, progesterone cream is absolutely essential in the beginning (and throughout) of the program, (within the first 30days), and @ 2-3x week per week (application to breasts). Couple this strategy with the above NBE products mentioned will hopefully all work synergistically.

I've seen introducing MSM, melatonin and E2 at bedtime is of benefit.......,when growth hormones are being produced, (most prominent in the first 2 hours of REM sleep).

Ohh, so then it is important to introduce it. I'm already six months in, but better late than never, I guess! Also, as for the PC, would you know of a brand you'd recommend? I checked Amazon, and I found tons of different brands and kinds of creams, and since I have never really ever used PC, I am not sure of which one would be best. I also remember, quite some time ago, reading posts by people using creams, not sure of which kind, mentioning that while they must be applied to the chest, it was important to avoid the nipple/areola area. For PC, I have also seen some people apply to other areas of the body as well, such as on the wrists. In the case of PC how would it be best to apply it?

Welcome to the forum kit019.

I'll add to the others. I think your overdoing it on the PM, you may want to cut down to at least 4 a day.

Oh well, I have actually already cut it down to 4 capsules per day. The dosages I showed in my previous post are daily doses, spread in half and half between morning and night. I did start at really high doses of PM, six capsules per day, but I have since decreased them, as they were too high.

[Lotus]

The one I prefer is listed (below), check the ingredients, ( good quality, imo). There's such a thing called dermal fatigue, which basicially means a tolerance has built up in same site application (receptor types). From experience I'd go 3 days on and 2 off (taking a full break in the 4th week). Breasts & hips were my application sites, sometimes wrists.

Progesterone cream (paraben free)
http://www.smokymountainnaturals.com/par...ife-cream/

[kit019]

The one I prefer is listed (below), check the ingredients, ( good quality, imo). There's such a thing called dermal fatigue, which basicially means a tolerance has built up in same site application (receptor types). From experience I'd go 3 days on and 2 off (taking a full break in the 4th week). Breasts & hips were my application sites, sometimes wrists.

Progesterone cream (paraben free)
http://www.smokymountainnaturals.com/par...ife-cream/

Alright, will try it out then! As for applying to breasts, should the application be over the entire area, including areolae/nipples, or should I avoid them? I say because I just searched for the posts I mentioned in my previous post, and one of them was actually by you lol, about two months ago. In that post you mentioned applying PC to the nipples would leave brown spots/freckles, so that's why I was asking how it would be best to apply it.


Thanks!

[Marcy]

In following Lotus' recommendations, I've had good results in applying it to the entire breast except the nipples. I spread it everywhere and if I have happened to get some on a nipple, it's surprisingly convenient to wipe that nipple with the wrist of arm on the same side! Works well for me. Be sure to get full coverage all the way to the end of the breast tissue near the armpit and all the way up top near the collar bone. I'm sure there are other methods but this has worked for me and I've had no issues with brown spots anywhere

[kit019]

Hey everyone!

It's been quite some time since I last posted here. Got super busy with school, so kinda moved all NBE matters to the back-burner for a while, still monitoring it and everything of course. It having been more than a year, I felt it was only appropriate to come back with some updates on how everything is going.

I have actually had good progress since my last post. Towards the end of last year I dropped PC from my regimen, and kept only PM, RC, WP, and astaxanthin. Then around the beginning of this year I picked up applying PM liquid to my chest to see if it would respond well to it, and it actually did! From my monthly progress log photos I could see that it was actually helping nipple/areola size. About three months ago, though, it would seem Ainterol decided to discontinue the liquid, so it became impossible to restock; it was at this point that, after looking everywhere and failing to find anyone still selling the liquid, I decided to replace it with the breast cream, not expecting much, of course, as the perception is that it is less potent than the liquid. To my surprise though, my chest seemed to respond way better to the cream, and in around a month and a half of usage I can see that it's really helped overall breast and areolae size. Around two months ago I also decided to change astaxanthin for reishi mushroom, as, even though astaxanthin is supposed to be better at supressing DHT, it is still not very widely used, and I just did not want to play around with my supressing of T.

Speaking of supressing androgens, around a month ago I began looking into upgrading to the really big guns. I figured that it would be best to keep PM/RC, as they have worked very well so far, but I was not so sure about WP and reishi, or the other ones that I had used before; so, upon some research, I decided that the best way to go would be to replace the AAs that I was taking for cyproterone. I am not yet taking it, but have already got all the relevant bloodwork done that is important to get done to make sure the liver is doing fine and all, as well as a hormone panel to see how well the AAs that I had been taking did, just as a baseline. Fortunately, my T was doing good, at just below male range, but not quite in female range, so it still had room for improvement, which is what I'm seeking with cypro. From my hormone panel results I also noticed that my estradiol reading was extremely low, even out of range, reading just "<5.0", but I figure this might be due to PM deriving miroestrol, which I believe I remember reading doesn't really show up in bloodwork.

Working on these big changes to my regimen led me to wonder, however, what's the general consensus on taking pharma AAs but keeping PM/RC? I don't believe this kind of regimen is particularly common, as I don't remember seeing many regimens in the past, or any at all, that went like this. I decided to go with these changes to my program, though, as it only makes sense to bring T as low as possible, which would only allow PM to work better; but still, any feedback, experience, or perhaps some knowledge if anyone knows of someone else with a similar program, would be greatly appreciated too! I will also attach my bloodwork readings in case they might be interesting, as I understand it's not particularly common for people on NBE to get bloodwork done, or at least not as common as bloodwork for HRT.

[michelleann99]

Hi kit
General cosnscenous is that white peony better

Your dosage of pm is pretty high for someone so young as at that dose you may get more than you bargain for

Julie

Please explain why white peony is better, I am new here too. 
thanks