[inflammo]

I've ran a search and read through the threads, but I'm still confused. Simply, does DIM taken with PM help or hurt breast growth? Thanks!

[JoHicksSissy]

I've been wondering this as well.

The internet suggests that DIM is a strong anti-androgen (good - right?) plus it seems to have some sort of impact on promoting healthy oestrogens.

Good do with some Lotus knowledge here I think!

[The First Aria]

Exactly Jo!   All it's suppose to do is help metabolize the bad left overs of E...  I am not so certain that it's an AA, but I suppose in a way it can act like one.  It is known that female, as well as males turn extra E back into T and DHT.  So, if you flush the left over E out of body, it in a way does sort of work like an AA.

[MeganJ]

Hi Aria,

Mmmmm strange, theres a lot of articles on the internet that state excess estrogen cannot be converted into testosterone, its a one way process only.

The only way to boost t is an external source of t from or prevent aromatase in the first place. The process of aromatase if my science is correct means that t loses atoms to become e, it cannot gain these back so will remain as e.

If there is too much then it will presumably get naturally flushed by the body if it cannot be utilised.

Megan

[Skye is on fire]

Dim simply acts by breaking down E2 to it's weaker form less having the full effect of feminization.  Bodybuilders take it for that reason as alot of them take drugs and supplements to increase T.  That T can be converted to e under those circumstances.  E does not get converted to T as e has a one way trip to get broken down by the liver to e 1 and 3 and eventually be eliminated by the body or stored in body fat.  Thats from what I've learned through the years.

[Lotus]

Casodex is flutamide (pharma anti-androgen), DIM is " remarkably similar in conformational geometry and surface charge distribution " to pharma casodex (flutamide). So....yes, the op's original question taking DIM with PM could be effective,........and useful for HRT mtf's. 

DIM is Diindolylmethane. It is an anticarcinogen and also improves estrogen metabolism. Plant-derived 3,3′-Diindolylmethane Is a strong Androgen Antagonist in Human Prostate Cancer Cells* DIM is remarkably similar in conformational geometry and surface charge distribution to an established synthetic AR antagonist, although the atomic compositions of the two substances are quite different. Taken together with our published reports of the estrogen agonist activities of DIM, the present results establish DIM as a unique bifunctional hormone disrupter. To our knowledge, DIM is the first example of a pure androgen receptor antagonist from plants.
http://www.jbc.org/content/278/23/21136.full

It is interesting to note that the antiproliferative and anti-androgenic activity of DIM in LNCaP cells were observed at physiologically relevant concentrations. A man of average weight who consumes 200g of broccoli daily will obtain 12 mg of DIM. With maximum absorption of DIM, the blood concentration of DIM would be as high as 10 Mg. Therefore, in vivo concentrations of DIM from dietary Brassica vegetables repre- sent the effective levels of DIM in vitro. 
http://www.jbc.org/content/278/23/21136.full.pdf

• How is hormonal sex reassignment achieved for male-to-female transsexuals?
Hormonal therapy is prescribed for male-to-female transsexuals to induce breast formation and a more female distribution of fat and to reduce male-pattern hair growth. To achieve these goals, the biologic action of androgens must be almost completely neutralized. Administration of estrogens suppresses gonadotropin output and therefore androgen production, but combining this treatment with a progestational agent, a gonadotropin-releasing-hormone (GnRH) analogue, or other medications that suppress androgen action (e.g., cyproterone acetate, flutamide, nilutamide, or bicalutamide) appears to be more effective.
http://blogs.nejm.org/now/index.php/3139/2011/04/01/

[VergeOfDiscovery]

I remember when lifting light weights I took a combination of Testofen (a particular fenugreek extract), nettle root extract, and DIM. The latter two were suggested to offset the potential estrogenic effects of the fenugreek extract. I'm not sure the DIM (took the one from Olympia Labs) did much for me.

Broccoli itself has so many benefits, it's worth considering eating the real thing (happen to love broccoli and even enjoy, prefer it raw). Also consider that broccoli sprouts (extra work to grow) concentrate the benefits of broccoli's sulforaphane.

[JoHicksSissy]

Thanks ladies & gents. 

That JBC.org paper was one of the things I'd read - I might give the combo of DIM, White Peony & PM a crack and see what happens. 


At the mo, I'm taking WP in the morning and PM in the evening. I seem pretty receptive to growth so am taking it slow so as not to go too far too soon. 

I might pop DIM in alongside the PM before bed and see what happens...


Anyone got any thoughts on DIM dosage?