[Sofia Bunny]

You and I are in a similar boat. For many of the same reasons. I truly wonder how many more of "us" are in the same boat?

I am in that boat as well. It will probably VERY crowded if everyone who is in the same situation climbs in.

My wife does tolerate a lot of the feminization I have done. It is a tacit acceptance as we do not talk about it, unless I have crossed a line she has drawn, which i say I won't cross again, but eventually do.

I think we're going to need a bigger boat! Thanks dcdee for sharing your opinion on this, I appreciate it! My wife seems to be somewhat tolerating my choice of sleepwear, underwear, and now my decision to paint my toenails just how much more will she tolerate?

[Dianna1395]

I don't know if this will apply, and I'm a bit rushed for time, please bear with me...
I had to sit down and tell the woman here I was done with the relationship.

Oddly, she took it well.
Also, since I'm not responsible FOR her, I don't have the issues I did just a few days ago. (Meaning, relating to her.)
She's been in counseling, I think she expected some of this, but... It had nothing to do with my T* or not status, or what I wore, I just told her neither of us were getting what we needed out of the relationship, so... what were we actually doing? Why bother?

I think we're both better off for it.
So, end hijack - but point of the hijack was,
Maybe it's a "responsible for" vs. "Responsible To" issue.
I believe in the Old Ways, so I'm responsible FOR those under my care. Especially when they're not as competent as they think: For example, you don't give an alcoholic alcohol, or supply narcotics to an addict.You don't give a child a gas can and a zippo.
And she acts like a child all too often when she thinks she can get away with it.

Now, maybe for you, there's something connected to that. We take responsibility for things outside our control, like how she feels. We can't do that. It's dishonest to both of you. She can't give an honest reaction because you're hiding something - and the hiding results in lost intimacy, lost trust...
Which happened in my relationship.

Just wanted to toss that out there as a possibility.
On our end, we already had the, "Lack of trust" discussion, about a year or two ago. Makes me wonder how we got to this point?

-Dianna

[Shae]

Sofia Lauren Bunny,

I can't help but think that if your wife wanted to wear men's undershirts or boy shorts she would express surprise if you didn't accept it. After all, they are just clothes and she should be free to wear what she wants. But somehow it's different when your preference is to wear camisole's and panties. This is a clear case of some people thinking that they should be more equal than others, and you may want to gently call he on it. Fair is fair. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. And clothes are really just pieces of fabric. They don't have any inherent gender.

It may be all about what she considers her turf. Many women consider their feminine attributes a source of power, and if that is the case here then your feminine preferences may be perceived as competition.

[The First Aria]

Sounds like Dianna has visited a therapist a couple of time. "Not responsible for someone else's feelings."

[Sofia Bunny]

I don't know if this will apply, and I'm a bit rushed for time, please bear with me...
I had to sit down and tell the woman here I was done with the relationship.

Oddly, she took it well.
Also, since I'm not responsible FOR her, I don't have the issues I did just a few days ago. (Meaning, relating to her.)
She's been in counseling, I think she expected some of this, but... It had nothing to do with my T* or not status, or what I wore, I just told her neither of us were getting what we needed out of the relationship, so... what were we actually doing? Why bother?

I think we're both better off for it.
So, end hijack - but point of the hijack was,
Maybe it's a "responsible for" vs. "Responsible To" issue.
I believe in the Old Ways, so I'm responsible FOR those under my care. Especially when they're not as competent as they think: For example, you don't give an alcoholic alcohol, or supply narcotics to an addict.You don't give a child a gas can and a zippo.
And she acts like a child all too often when she thinks she can get away with it.

Now, maybe for you, there's something connected to that. We take responsibility for things outside our control, like how she feels. We can't do that. It's dishonest to both of you. She can't give an honest reaction because you're hiding something - and the hiding results in lost intimacy, lost trust...
Which happened in my relationship.

Just wanted to toss that out there as a possibility.
On our end, we already had the, "Lack of trust" discussion, about a year or two ago. Makes me wonder how we got to this point?

-Dianna

Thank you Dianna for your thoughts and insight. Sorry for the delayed response, I hadn't realized there were responses to the thread. Also I'm sorry to hear things did not work out for you with your SO.

I do believe that my wife and I need to go back to counseling, we are both going back to bad habits and an outside 3rd party could help us both see each others perspective a bit more clearly.

[Sofia Bunny]

Sofia Lauren Bunny,

I can't help but think that if your wife wanted to wear men's undershirts or boy shorts she would express surprise if you didn't accept it. After all, they are just clothes and she should be free to wear what she wants. But somehow it's different when your preference is to wear camisole's and panties. This is a clear case of some people thinking that they should be more equal than others, and you may want to gently call he on it. Fair is fair. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. And clothes are really just pieces of fabric. They don't have any inherent gender.

It may be all about what she considers her turf. Many women consider their feminine attributes a source of power, and if that is the case here then your feminine preferences may be perceived as competition.

So I totally get that Shae, but the problem is the double standards. So it's okay for her to wear boxers when she feels like it, and it's okay for her to wear men's clothing in general, but heaven forbid if I want to wear what I like and want beneath my outer wear. No one else sees them, no one else knows, so who cares and what difference does it make? Well it matters to her because she just doesn't want to see it.

I don't think she's one to see her femininity as a source of power. Of course I could be totally wrong in that.

[The First Aria]

I have always bristled at the fact that if a woman has short hair, wears a man's shirt and just regular jeans.... As long as she didn't act butch, it was o.k. As a matter of fact usually given a title of "Cute" or knows fashion.

But, let a man wear a frilly shirt, a kilt that has little or no bling or shoe's with more that 1 1/4 heals..... He's a heretic.... to be burned alive or crucified.(sometime figuratively and or virtually.)

Wonder what modern peeps would think if they were thrown back to Pre Colonial England, or France where men wore the more gaudy clothing. Especially Royalty with their skirt like bottoms with lacy petticoats showing and 2-3" healed shoes.... Wow, what a bunch of feminine pansies they must of been.... Right?

[Dianna1395]

Sofia Lauren Bunny,

I can't help but think that if your wife wanted to wear men's undershirts or boy shorts she would express surprise if you didn't accept it. After all, they are just clothes and she should be free to wear what she wants. But somehow it's different when your preference is to wear camisole's and panties. This is a clear case of some people thinking that they should be more equal than others, and you may want to gently call he on it. Fair is fair. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. And clothes are really just pieces of fabric. They don't have any inherent gender.

It may be all about what she considers her turf. Many women consider their feminine attributes a source of power, and if that is the case here then your feminine preferences may be perceived as competition.

So I totally get that Shae, but the problem is the double standards. So it's okay for her to wear boxers when she feels like it, and it's okay for her to wear men's clothing in general, but heaven forbid if I want to wear what I like and want beneath my outer wear. No one else sees them, no one else knows, so who cares and what difference does it make? Well it matters to her because she just doesn't want to see it.

I don't think she's one to see her femininity as a source of power. Of course I could be totally wrong in that.

Interesting way of phrasing things, Sofia.
For me, it's more the opposite, so I figured I'd chime in.
I see feminine attributes as powerful.
She sees them as weakness.
Why things cannot work out for us - she wants to be "one of the guys" and I want a girl, and to be a girl (I think, wondering on that again now.)

Lots more I would say - but would derail things. so I won't. ;-)
-Dianna

[Dianna1395]

I have always bristled at the fact that if a woman has short hair, wears a man's shirt and just regular jeans.... As long as she didn't act butch, it was o.k. As a matter of fact usually given a title of "Cute" or knows fashion.

But, let a man wear a frilly shirt, a kilt that has little or no bling or shoe's with more that 1 1/4 heals..... He's a heretic.... to be burned alive or crucified.(sometime figuratively and or virtually.)

Wonder what modern peeps would think if they were thrown back to Pre Colonial England, or France where men wore the more gaudy clothing. Especially Royalty with their skirt like bottoms with lacy petticoats showing and 2-3" healed shoes.... Wow, what a bunch of feminine pansies they must of been.... Right?

It's an interesting thing, in order to find out who is in power: Find out who you cannot insult or joke about.
Hint for the modern world:
Those in power are NOT
white
male
Christian
heterosexual...

[The First Aria]

I agree Dianna! ^5