[BeautifulBambi]

I love these findings! So WP is the way to go am I right? If so in mg dosage how many capsules should I take each day?

[BeautifulBambi]

Any opinions on Swanson White Peony Root will it work just fine?

[Lotus]

Any opinions on Swanson White Peony Root will it work just fine?

Hi BB,

Someone shared the WP content of Swanson's brand a while back (my apologies to the OP I don't remember who though). White peony (standardized) should bump aromatase 2-3 fold (based on scientific literature) a 30% increase, for myself that means an increase of 60-80 pg/mL blood estradiol, though everybody is different. I believe Life Extension sells a standardized capsule but Swanson full spectrum isn't standardized.

It's Swanson's capsules. 
I'll have to check the label.

I believe it's not standardized (lol, I have a bottle sitting on the shelf too). Here's a few things about WP, or where I think the rubber needs to meet the road, or more to the point finding a suitable WP supplement that contains two compounds: 6'-O-galloylalbiflorin and pentagalloylglucos, they bind androgen receptors and inhibit DHT. Let's let science solve this puzzle of what WP does for NBE.....which I think we just did. The dose could be less than I calculated earlier if these compound and the main glycoside 3'-O-galloylpaeoniflorin are present would be estimated at 1 gram. 

Additionally, testosterone/delta 4-androstenedione production ratio is also reduced (significantly) by paeoniflorin (white peony). 

So, in ovaries WP promotes aromatase, (I believe in the breasts too), inhibits DHT in sebum, inhibits prostate cancer cells, (which means it inhibits C17 @ CYP17 P450 enzyme, a strong anti-androgen. The lab dosage was 2 grams (I'll have to double check). Roots be king.

Androgen modulators from the roots of Paeonia lactiflora (paeoniae radix) grown and processed in nara prefecture, Japan.
Washida K1, Itoh Y, Iwashita T, Nomoto K.
Author information


Abstract
The monoterpene glycoside, 3'-O-galloylpaeoniflorin (1), and four known compounds, 6'-O-galloylalbiflorin (2), pentagalloylglucose (3), 6'-O-benzoylpaeoniflorin (4) and 6'-O-galloylpaeoniflorin (5), were isolated from the roots of Paeonia lactiflora that had been grown and processed in Nara prefecture, Japan, as androgen modulators. Their structures were elucidated based on spectroscopic analysis. Compounds 2 and 3 showed strong androgen receptor (AR) binding activity (IC(50) values 33.7 and 4.1 microg/ml, respectively), 1, 4 and 5 showed weak activity (20, 31 and 12% at 120 microg/ml, respectively). However, paeoniflorin (6) and albiflorin (7), the structures of which are related to 1, 2, 4 and 5, showed no activity. These results suggested that both the structure of albiflorin and the galloyl moiety are important for 2 to show strong AR binding activity. Furthermore, compounds 1-5 inhibited growth of an androgen-dependent LNCaP-FGC (prostate cancer cell line), and were indicated to be AR antagonists. Compounds 2 and 3 might be candidates as safe, natural anti-androgens.


Testosterone/delta 4-androstenedione production ratio was lowered significantly by paeoniflorin, and two compounds, 6'-O-galloylalbiflorin and pentagalloylglucos bind androgen receptors and inhibit DHT.

[BeautifulBambi]

Any opinions on Swanson White Peony Root will it work just fine?

Hi BB,

Someone shared the WP content of Swanson's brand a while back (my apologies to the OP I don't remember who though). White peony (standardized) should bump aromatase 2-3 fold (based on scientific literature) a 30% increase, for myself that means an increase of 60-80 pg/mL blood estradiol, though everybody is different. I believe Life Extension sells a standardized capsule but Swanson full spectrum isn't standardized.

It's Swanson's capsules. 
I'll have to check the label.

I believe it's not standardized (lol, I have a bottle sitting on the shelf too). Here's a few things about WP, or where I think the rubber needs to meet the road, or more to the point finding a suitable WP supplement that contains two compounds: 6'-O-galloylalbiflorin and pentagalloylglucos, they bind androgen receptors and inhibit DHT. Let's let science solve this puzzle of what WP does for NBE.....which I think we just did. The dose could be less than I calculated earlier if these compound and the main glycoside 3'-O-galloylpaeoniflorin are present would be estimated at 1 gram. 

Additionally, testosterone/delta 4-androstenedione production ratio is also reduced (significantly) by paeoniflorin (white peony). 

So, in ovaries WP promotes aromatase, (I believe in the breasts too), inhibits DHT in sebum, inhibits prostate cancer cells, (which means it inhibits C17 @ CYP17 P450 enzyme, a strong anti-androgen. The lab dosage was 2 grams (I'll have to double check). Roots be king.

Androgen modulators from the roots of Paeonia lactiflora (paeoniae radix) grown and processed in nara prefecture, Japan.
Washida K1, Itoh Y, Iwashita T, Nomoto K.
Author information


Abstract
The monoterpene glycoside, 3'-O-galloylpaeoniflorin (1), and four known compounds, 6'-O-galloylalbiflorin (2), pentagalloylglucose (3), 6'-O-benzoylpaeoniflorin (4) and 6'-O-galloylpaeoniflorin (5), were isolated from the roots of Paeonia lactiflora that had been grown and processed in Nara prefecture, Japan, as androgen modulators. Their structures were elucidated based on spectroscopic analysis. Compounds 2 and 3 showed strong androgen receptor (AR) binding activity (IC(50) values 33.7 and 4.1 microg/ml, respectively), 1, 4 and 5 showed weak activity (20, 31 and 12% at 120 microg/ml, respectively). However, paeoniflorin (6) and albiflorin (7), the structures of which are related to 1, 2, 4 and 5, showed no activity. These results suggested that both the structure of albiflorin and the galloyl moiety are important for 2 to show strong AR binding activity. Furthermore, compounds 1-5 inhibited growth of an androgen-dependent LNCaP-FGC (prostate cancer cell line), and were indicated to be AR antagonists. Compounds 2 and 3 might be candidates as safe, natural anti-androgens.


Testosterone/delta 4-androstenedione production ratio was lowered significantly by paeoniflorin, and two compounds, 6'-O-galloylalbiflorin and pentagalloylglucos bind androgen receptors and inhibit DHT.

Thank You

[BeautifulBambi]

Can White Peony Root and Red Reishi Mushroom be used together if so what outcome could I see from using them both?

[Stevenator.]

It's that time of year !! 
Time to plant your AA's !!
Head down to your nearest Garden Center 
and get some potted Spearmint !!

Ha-Ha ... 

I'm looking fwd to a summer of refreshing drinks 
of Green Tea & Fresh Picked Spearmint :-)

[Lotus]

Can White Peony Root and Red Reishi Mushroom be used together if so what outcome could I see from using them both?

I had WP and reishi in my NBE plan....and have used reishi with HRT. In Chinese herbal medicine WP with reishi pairs the two as a synergy. Reishi inhibits DHT while WP promotes aromatase (inhibits DHT too). 

http://www.itmonline.org/arts/peony.htm

[BeautifulBambi]

Can White Peony Root and Red Reishi Mushroom be used together if so what outcome could I see from using them both?

I had WP and reishi in my NBE plan....and have used reishi with HRT. In Chinese herbal medicine WP with reishi pairs the two as a synergy. Reishi inhibits DHT while WP promotes aromatase (inhibits DHT too). 

http://www.itmonline.org/arts/peony.htm

Wow sounds like a good way to start then Thank You

[Stevenator.]

Lotus, 

I think you once said that once you've stomped on DHT long enough estradiol takes a dramatic role over daily hormone production.....in theory. 

I'm *very* curious about this theory. Is there any info already posted here? I'm super curious about this. 

Thank you. 

[Lotus]

Lotus, 

I think you once said that once you've stomped on DHT long enough estradiol takes a dramatic role over daily hormone production.....in theory. 

I'm *very* curious about this theory. Is there any info already posted here? I'm super curious about this. 

Thank you. 

Hi stevenator,

Let's use how estradiol can suppress prostate cancer as an example, in other words, estradiol lowers androgens and inhibits prostate resistant cancer...as seen in the study below.

Another example would be after SRS when most anti-androgens are dropped in favor of estradiol only supplementation, which estradiol is supremely in control of suppressing androgens (DHT), at the very leas some DHT is leaked from the adrenals, though mostly insignificant (though some DHT rears its wrath even after castration via adrenals, depends on the person though too, meaning individual metabolism vary.


Estradiol suppresses tissue androgens and prostate cancer growth in castration resistant prostate cancer
http://europepmc.org/backend/ptpmcrender.fcgi?accid=PMC2889894&blobtype=pdf

Abstract
Background: Estrogens suppress tumor growth in prostate cancer which progresses despite anorchid serum androgen levels, termed castration resistant prostate cancers (CRPC), although the mechanisms are unclear. We hypothesize that estrogen inhibits CRPC in anorchid animals by suppressing tumoral androgens, an effect independent of the estrogen receptor.

Methods: The human CRPC xenograft LuCaP 35V was implanted into orchiectomized male SCID mice and established tumors were treated with placebo, 17β-estradiol or 17β-estradiol and estrogen receptor antagonist ICI 182,780. Effects of 17β-estradiol on tumor growth were evaluated and tissue testosterone (T) and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) evaluated by mass spectrometry.

Results: Treatment of LuCaP 35V with 17β-estradiol slowed tumor growth compared to controls (tumor volume at day 21: 785 ± 81 mm3 vs. 1195 ± 84 mm3, p = 0.002). Survival was also significantly improved in animals treated with 17β- estradiol (p = 0.03). The addition of the estrogen receptor antagonist ICI 182,780 did not significantly change survival or growth. 17β-estradiol in the presence and absence of ICI 182,780 suppressed tumor testosterone (T) and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) as assayed by mass spectrometry. Tissue androgens in placebo treated LuCaP 35V xenografts were; T = 0.71 ± 0.28 pg/mg and DHT = 1.73 ± 0.36 pg/mg. In 17β-estradiol treated LuCaP35V xenografts the tissue androgens were, T = 0.20 ± 0.10 pg/mg and DHT = 0.15 ± 0.15 pg/mg, (p < 0.001 vs. controls). Levels of T and DHT in control liver tissue were < 0.2 pg/mg.

Conclusions: CRPC in anorchid animals maintains tumoral androgen levels despite castration. 17β-estradiol significantly suppressed tumor T and DHT and inhibits growth of CRPC in an estrogen receptor independent manner. The ability to manipulate tumoral androgens will be critical in the development and testing of agents targeting CRPC through tissue steroidogenesis.


In another twist, 17B-estradiol (E2) up-regulates IGF-1 (Insulin-like Growth Factor), so maybe this opens up for further discussion on that we know where and how to increase growth hormones.....meaning it's already in our wheelhouse by using E2.

In summary, our data show that E2 specifically up-regulates IGF- IR in prostate cancer cells and sensitizes cancer cells to the biological effects of IGF-I. The E2 effect can occur through both ERa and ERh and does not involve ER binding to DNA but rather the activation of kinase cascades initiated by the association between ER-Src and PI3K and followed by ER K1/2 phosphorylation.

So....know what this means?, IGF (growth hormones) happens more from a signaling cascade more so than estrogen receptors.....and that pathway is PI3K signaling pathway (or in this example known as a cascade to IGF-1), awesome stuff huh?.

17B-Estradiol Up-regulates the Insulin-like Growth Factor Receptor through a Nongenotropic Pathway in Prostate Cancer Cells
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Giu...-Cells.pdf